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"The Physician's Declaration of Independence" Will the Revolution Be Lead By Doctors?


When in the Course of Human Events, it becomes necessary for the members of a Profession to dissolve the Financial Arrangements which have connected them with Medicare, Medicaid, assorted Health Maintenance Organizations, and diverse Third Party Payers and to assume among the other Professions of the Earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


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What is your point. There are over 161,000 doctors in the U.S. and that does not even count students. So 18000 for 143000 against.

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - AAPS


About Us

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - AAPS - is a non-partisan professional association of physicians in all types of practices and specialties across the country.

Since 1943, AAPS has been dedicated to the highest ethical standards of the Oath of Hippocrates and to preserving the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship and the practice of private medicine.

Our motto, "omnia pro aegroto" means "all for the patient."

Will they then also start reading the labels on medications...

before prescribing them?

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

This doctor is full of it.

He advocates that patients should just buy catastrophic health insurance and pay doctors cash. When my wife and I were young (early 1980's) we didn't have insurance or much money. My son needed minor medical care and it cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars (I can't remember exactly). Eventually collection agencies got involved and my credit was absolutely murdered.

During the course of negotiations I was shocked to find out that as an uninsured patient I was paying two to three times more than health insurance, or the government paid for the same procedure. We were paying the absolutely highest rate because, we had no power and doctors and hospitals were gladly willing to stick us for everything they could.

Today I have excellent insurance, but I cringe every time I see something for a procedure like "Doctor submitted charge = $287. Maximum acceptable charge $140. We paid = $120. You owe the provider = $20.

It means that megabig Blue Cross will only pay $140 for that procedure and that's okay. But if I go in on my own without insurance, I have to pay $287.

THATS how clinics screw people unlucky enough not to have health insurance.

Don't tell me, as this doctor did, that they won't screw people who come in on their own without health insurance.

It's 2013

Unfortunately, you are right BUT that was the 1980s and doctors and clinics all over the country are breaking these horrible contracts with insurance companies which require them to give "special" rates to the insured while bilking cash customers. This is not the case anymore. Doctors are waking up. I have done my research and talked to my doctor and although he has not completely stopped working with insurers, he has established a "cash rate" that is $5 cheaper than the "insured rate," so that he can service people like me who have cancelled their policy (freely or forced.)He also provides a list of labs and clinics that also have competitive "cash" rates. ALSO, many individuals are going to "healthcare cost sharing" with christian organizations who will help with the larger burdens (see Christian Healthcare Ministries -- 2% is spent on administrative costs and 98% is paid out in benefits) Your "excellent" insurance is going up and its not going to stop.

I've got news for you. It IS the case today, just like it was

then. My example toward the bottom of my post where the clinic submitted a bill for $287 and the maximum negotiated charge was $140 was from a 2013 doctor bill from last month.

If I had no insurance I would have been charged $287 instead of what the insurance company has to pay ($140) in the year of our lord 2013.

I didn't say EVERY doctor and clinic

will give you discounted cash rates, I said today (much more now than 30 years ago) there are plenty of options because these doctors and clinics are getting wise to these horrible contracts. I am sure you can find plenty of examples of outrageous doctors bills still today (in the year of our lord) however times are changing :) shop around, do your research, things change!

I have seen the same thing

I have Veterans benefits so I am not affected, but my wife lost her insurance and she has a medicine that is too expensive, so her doctor is giving her the medicine out of the clinic at no charge and said they would continue to do so until we were either able to afford it or do get insurance that covers it. I know that everything will not be so, and that some procedures may be too expensive, but we just do what we can and I am working hard at a new business to try and earn more for my family. Fingers crossed.

Physicians For A National Health Progam doesn't think ObamaCare

goes far enough.

18,000 physicians are members.



18,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals who support single-payer national health insurance....(are members)

How many of the 18,000 are students and "health care professionals"?


Are they paid members? Signed a pledge card members? Or just on a mailing list?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

You obviously visited the website.

Ask them.


No, you ask them.
You posted incorrect figures to forward an agenda, but you don't feel obligated in making a correction?

I'm only mildly curious, really. Don't sweat it...

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Cannot make a correction after a post has been commented on.

You were the one asking what qualifies for membership. Whether they were just on a mailing list or whatever.

If this question is so critical to you, if it so burns your soul that days later you are still dwelling on it, then ask them.

Personally, I don't care. So I will not ask them.

The New Declaration

The New Declaration:

Given that Modern Technology, Advancement in Human Wisdom, a Registry of Deeds, a Bureau of Standards, and a Repository of Maps have been shown to be sufficient to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, the Central, or Federal, Government of the United States has been determined to be unnecessary, and is therefore hereby declared Null and Void.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

Pie in the sky my friend :-)

Revolutionary idea to go way back in ancient history - the 1980s, and suggest a pre-health insurance approach to healthcare.

I remember as a child in the 80s the first protest I ever saw on TV news was a bunch of hippies protesting HMOs. Now we see a bunch of hippies protesting not having health insurance. My how times have changed.

Healthcare insurance? NOT!

Health insurance is not health care.
Health care is not medical care.

The proper solution is to simply let individual medical care consumers pay their own medical bills and, if desired, negotiate with their insurance provider to obtain reimbursement.

But that makes WAY too much sense for today's topsy-turvy society.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

Insurance vs Plans

What is being called Health Insurance is not really 'insurance' at all.

Insurance is an indemnity for the occurrence of an 'unexpected' event.

Prepaying for expected doctor's visits, pregnancies, birth control, is not Insurance, it is a Health Plan. Mixing that with Preexisting Conditions and Unexpected payouts is a recipe for disaster.

We need to get Government out of the business of ANY KIND OF CARE, especially our Health.

Interesting observation

you must be old as dirt to remember those days.

Every time I hear the word HMO I associate it with a moment (37 years ago) sitting at the McDonald's drive-thru speaker trying to place an order as I was listening to some radio program where they were talking about "HMOs"

The drive thru was a new gadget in the 70's
I was driving my black 4X4 Chevy Suburban with the big V-8 and crushed velour seats with 40 gallons of hi-test in the tank. All the lemmings were sitting in the gas rationing lines waiting for gas.
I was sitting in that 9-miles-to-the-gallon, land yacht that I got at below the dealer's cost. Gas "crisis"?
I had a home business - no commuting.
Gas had just broke $1 a gallon!
S-h-i-t! Now I'm craving a Quarter Ponder w/Cheese and it's 4 hours 'til breakfast ends!

Oh yes, Odd and Even plates

I remember that too.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

you got it

you got it