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Have Daily Paul followers Become Anti-Christian?

I have encountered many people in the freedom movement who reject who are even hostile to us Christians. I notice people persecute me for writing a prayer about asking God. We will lose this battle for the republic without divine providence. Do you agree or do many of you think you can win without God's help or have disdain for us God fearing people. I do not care if a person is a christian or not. Respect the right to worship or not to worship. But there are some mocking us in the movement saying we are the liability.

the truth is we do not have a prayer to win back the republic if we reject divine providence. DO you agree.

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I lost my belief in church but not my spiritual belief. I like the saying: "There have been more deaths in the name of religion than any other in our history."
Another observation is that there is a difference between believing in Jesus and being a Jesus Freak. Your relationship with your beliefs on religion and spirituality is a personal one. When you go overboard with your quotes from the Bible, it turns many off and does not help with the message of Liberty.
What you should be doing is keeping your faith inside of you and use it in your life in order to be an example to others. That is how we become a moral people again, by being an example to our children and everyone around us without the need to preach. Leave the preaching to those that we go to for guidance such as pastors, if you go to church or when you are in a discussion of religion or spirituality. When you use preaching in defense in an argument, it usually falls on deaf ears or escalates the argument. The two subjects that become more heated in an argument than any others are politics and religion. This is my opinion.

Do some fact checking

"I like the saying: "There have been more deaths in the name of religion than any other in our history."

Why exactly do you like that, because it sounds right and supports your views or because you have no interest in the truth? There is absolutely no facts to back up that claim and it rings even less true given the millions killed by state wars just in the 20th century alone.

"What you should be doing is keeping your faith inside of you and use it in your life in order to be an example to others"

Bullshit. Christians are told specifically to preach the word and make converts, the Islamists are also told to be public with their religion as well.

" The two subjects that become more heated in an argument than any others are politics and religion. This is my opinion."

There is a reason for this, mainly because the battle for truth in a fallen world has adversaries on both sides.

What does it matter? The

What does it matter? The general point is that people who value their ideologies more then the life of others are going to due bad things. We may disagree, but we all agree no one should be killed or deprived of their liberty based on their beliefs.

Fortune Favors the Bold

I do agree

I threw that saying out as it is used all the time and I may have used it unwisely. I do believe that it comes out to 7-10% of deaths vs political war. I still stand with the notion that your relationship with Christ is your own and you are supposed to spread the word but that does not include throwing out biblical quotes in political arguments. The problem with throwing out quotes and personal religious beliefs is that everyone interprets the bible somewhat different, especially short quotes. To spread the word, all a person needs to do is profess they believe that Christ is their savior or whatever it is, and invite the person to join them at service, therefore allowing the minister to use his words to persuade them to stay. That sounds like the way to do it for me, but alas, I do not attend churches, I worship at home with friends and family with our own services. I do invite others to join, but I do not preach to them. We do read from the scriptures and then have discussions on the passages. This way we all can put in our perspectives and try to come to a consensus. Sorry if I got you in a frenzy.

SteveMT's picture

No doubt that he read the Old Testament.

There was more killing documented in those Old Testament books than in most others and without mercy. If you add what was done by 400 years of the Crusades, Chairman Mao, Hitler, Moslem against Hindu, and Christian against Catholic, there is an abundance of evidence for this statement.

Ask what remains of our Native American population if they know of the "MANIFEST DESTINY?" They were slaughtered in the name of God.

Old Testament records events throughout early human history...

...of course there is a lot of killing and war in it.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

SteveMT's picture

Agree that making war is no big deal, but these were different.

These wars were waged at the expressed command of the Almighty. These wars left not a soul to breathe. All were put to death without mercy. These wars made every tyrant that ever lived look like a pussycat compared to this kind to repeated wholesale genocide. That is the big difference.

Christians are not liabilities,

they are people who believe in something. There are as many different Christians as there are Christians. I disagree that we need "divine providence" mainly because I dont believe in it. If something is going to change it will have to come from the people. The reason God helps those who help themselves is because it is you who creates your own luck. If you wait for change to happen you can only blame yourself when it doesnt come.

I feel that there is a difference between crticism, being demeaning, and persecution. Some people will get defensive over their beliefs including atheists, so insulting others beliefs about things like prayer makes them feel better about their own. People should be able to tolerate cultures that are different than their own because we are all different and yet understand the principle of liberty.

Most of my family are Christians, they are not evolutionists, and they pray. I still love them and still respectfully engage in debate. It is possible to disagree without being hatefull.

-Matthew Good

We also have to recognize

We also have to recognize that Christians are a majority in this country. If we want to advocate for or against religion, fine, but we should separate it from our mutual political struggle.

Fortune Favors the Bold

The Question Is, What Does It Mean To Be A Christian?

1) Jesus said if you want to follow me, you must be willing to give up everything.

2) You must be a servant of all.

3) You must be born again, not of flesh, but of the spirit.

4) You must be a leader, not a follower. A leader by example.

5) You must not resent evil nor those that do evil.

6) You must not judge for judgement is reserved for the Lord your God

7) Honor your father and Mother so your days may be long

8) You shall not put any God before me saith the Lord - You must not make for yourselves ANY graven images nor bow down to them for your God is a jealous God. (Abraham destroyed all the graven images in his fathers House and left the city OF Er in Caldea and went to live in the desert. (Remember Abraham, Issac and Jacob were NOT Jews nor Christians they were Nomads who lived and roamed the desert.

The fourth offspring of Jacob or Israel was named Judah. From Judah came the Jews..

9) Rest in the Lord, he doeth the work, because of yourself you can do NOTHING...

10) Love what is good (GOD) with all your heart, mind and soul

11) You shall not steal

12) You shall not covet (desire for yourself) the things that are not yours nor shall you be jealous of them that have what you desire..

13) You shall not desire for yourself (covet) your friend or neighbors wife

14) You shall not steal

15) You shall not murder (notice that it does not say not to kill) there may be a time you have no choice but to defend yourself, your family and others from crazed killers..Use some common sense here please..

I'm sure there are others not mentioned but the principle here, for the most part, is to live by the golden rule...


Lets not forget these, emalvini

Leviticus 21:9
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.

Isaiah 13:15-18
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

Ezekiel 9:5-7
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.”

Let us pray...

Remember those to your own dismay,

but I rebuke the notion of adding them to emalvini's list. Your items of addendum do not bear Christian principle. At best they are worthy as glimpses into what humanity was like before Christ. A prevailing theme in the story of Christ is his revolt against such insanity.

There Are So Many My Good Friend

Thanks for sharing...

GoodSamaritan's picture

It's a shame...

apparently you don't understand the Old Covenant, its relationship to the New Covenant, and the differences between them. Otherwise, you would realize how silly it appears to Christians when these verses are used in an attempt to discredit Christianity.

If you don't believe me, take any of these or hundreds of other such verses and see if you can explain their purpose in relationship to the unfolding of God's salvation plan.

I'd love to hear your explanations.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

SteveMT's picture

Is the DP pro-nondenominational?

That is the question?

Be at peace brother

No need to fret about this.

The people here are really no different than any other on the entire earth, meaning that there are people from all walks of life with different mindsets, different agendas, Christians, atheists, agnostics, creationists, evolutionists, and everything in between.

It's worldwide from each person, to the very family to all the nations abroad and always has been.

In that regard, the DP is no different and so there should be no surprise and no fretting.

Those who come here understand and love the liberty we have enjoyed and been blessed with for so long, see and understand the ongoing corruption deep within and throughout our government that is doing its all to undermine everything that we have come to love about our nation.

Many are trying to find ways to turn things around.

Stay in prayer about everything, and be at peace with Him who holds all things in His hands....Even our freedoms, and trust Him for whatever comes today or tomorrow.

Remember, for this nation to continue as it was, may not be God's plan!

Many will laugh and scorn me when I say this, but we are in fact in the very end of time and everything, world-wide is falling apart!

Time had a beginning, and time has an end, as it is written, and neither man nor angels can thwart God's will!

He is in charge, not we!

Peace everyone

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~


During the revolution, what divine intervention did God partake in to help the Americans defeat England?

How was it not?

A small group of rag-tag revolutionaries, labeled as "terrorists" defeated the world's most powerful empire to establish what would become the greatest, freest nation in the known history of mankind...

Yeah, nothing miraculous there... G-d had no plans there... right.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?


Why did God back Vietnam against the U.S?
Why did God back Afghanistan against the Russians?
Why did God support the Greeks against the Persians?
Why did God support the French against the Moors?
Why did God support India over the British?

Wait...maybe winning the revolution was not as miraculous as you think it is?

If I was God and there was some guy saying he knew what side I was on without talking to me first. I probably think that guy was an ass-hole.

Think about that, God might think your an ass-hole. I think that's pretty damn miraculous.

a war of secession

"defeated the world's most powerful empire" is not necessarily untrue, but it is rather ambiguous if not deceptive in its potential grandiosity. If the British empire were to be seen as a leviathan or giant squid, we didn't actually kill the beast but maimed one of its tentacles into recession.


I agree totally in GOD and very happy to proclaim it !!

There is no Pro-Christian or anti-Christian part of liberty

there is just liberty. Believe what you want, or choose not to believe.

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Tu ne cede malis.

Candidates for Liberty Webpage:

2016 Liberty Candidate Thread:

Excellent quote!!


I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy

Religion and Morality Essential for Liberty!

Freedom and Liberty are not the same thing. Liberty can only come as we adopt laws that align with the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God.

As John Adam Stated "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." The famous French Historian Alex de Tocqueville noted,“The Americans combine the notions of religion and liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive of one without the other”. He also stated, “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”

Folks, America is no longer great because America is no longer good. Liberty is fading because Religion and Morality are fading. Lately I've been under attack by "liberty" people because I use my religion as the bases of why I believe in the Laws I do.

Religion is under attack in American and it's under attack in the Liberty movement. The first Protection in the First Amendment to the Constitution protects freedom of Religion. Any Law or Right you support comes from some moral system you have. For me my morality comes from a study of the Laws of Nature and Science, the Bible and the revealed word of God to men (to me they are the same Laws). If you think deeply about the Laws you support you will find that they too come from a religious belief or a law of science or nature. If you don't believe there are natural Laws then you believe that Rights and Laws come from the Government. This is a very dangerous thing to believe as Government can give and take 'laws' and 'rights' as they please. But as assuredly as the rising sun and the pull of gravity the laws that don't align with Natural Laws will bring disaster to those who follow them. The founders knew this and that is why they established the Constitution and left the States to discover and implement more of the Laws of Nature for themselves.

At the signing of the Constitution 7 of the 13 States had State religions. Religious minds established most of the great Ivy League schools we revere today, Harvard by the Puritans, Yale by Congregationalist ministers, Princeton founded by Presbyterians, University of Pennsylvania by the Church of England and Methodists, Columbia by the Church of England, Brown University by The Baptists, Dartmouth College by the Calvinist.

The integration of religious notions and morality in the City, County and State Law is what made America great and Liberty abound. Being free to do whatever you want is not Liberty. It can be the destruction of freedom and Liberty. The greatness and simplicity of great Laws like love your neighbor as yourself,thou shalt not kill, steal or covet are not meant to enslave you. Those Laws when followed create an environment where you are free to discover great things, ennobling things that bring life and light to a people. Secular laws should align with the Laws of Nature and of Natures God. Choosing to have laws that don't align with them produces what we have today in our country.

Liberty lovers, we need to get back to the faith of our Fathers if we are to save our liberties. I wish I had more time to write with more depth and history here but I hope you would study why you believe you have the Rights that you have. Where do those beliefs come from? How do you know they are true? If your beliefs come from a religious source are you skipping some important Laws because you don't think they are important? Something to think about.

Asclepius's picture

The Founders were "Deists"

While the founders respected Christianity for the moral and ethical teachings of Christ, many believed that man's reason and free will coupled with the observation and stewardship of the natural world were sufficient to know the existence of a Creator. But more importantly, they rejected dogma and authority as the source of spiritual knowledge.


Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; none but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley

Good point

I have actually been re-reading the works of Thomas Paine recently and have gotten about halfway through his work " The Age of Reason", which is probably the foremost book on the ideas of Deism. It is interesting to note right out the outset of the book he proclaims his belief in the One true God of Monotheism, but discounts any evidence for this God other than the creation of the natural world. It is a rather strange defense of God coupled by attacks on this exact same God revealed by the Jews and the Christians.

Everyone should read it to see exactly how weak the arguments against Christianity were by the Deists. From what I have read thus far Paine's only arguments against the Bible have been he doesn't like some violent aspects, and he thinks God would not work that way, how he knows exactly how God works, he does not totally reveal other than he thinks it would mimic creation in absolute laws and the like.


It's fascinating how different we can be and how differently it might end for me in re-reading Paine. It's funny how Benjamin Franklin did not consider himself a Deist until he read a treatise against Deism - "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." Ironically, as such, I find it similarly funny that you found yourself distinctly less Deist upon reading Thomas Paine.

SteveMT's picture

Does the Almighty speak through others?

Would God tell you something to tell me, or would He tell me directly without intermediaries?

You aren't reading the same Age of Reason that I read. That book is the most important book ever written. It shows the hypocrisy of all organized religious teachings, beliefs, and books. It should be made part of the Bible. It's a life changer that frees us from the mysterious fantasies, inconsistencies, and illogic replete in organized religion.

I enjoy your spirit in

I enjoy your spirit in defense of "Age of Reason", but the two possibilities of your initial question are not mutually exclusive.

SteveMT's picture

Appreciate your feedback, John.

I've been appreciating your comments on this subject as well.

You are right. Those two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. God can speak anyway He wants to us. However, He shouldn't condemn people who disbelieving hearsay information. His direct communication with people is a different story if they didn't heed whatever was told to them. However, it was for them alone. As soon as they tell someone else, it's hearsay and may be believed or disbelieved. The onus on people to believe hearsay opens the door to charlatans and evil doers.

Especially with regard to killing without mercy, God would know that direct communication would be essential for people to carryout such violence. Even more importantly, he would have done the killing himself without getting anyone involved in such a massacre. If someone told me that God told them that I should kill a bunch of people without mercy, I would know immediately that such a command could not be from the Almighty.