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Bitcoin vs. Gold: The Future of Money - Peter Schiff Debates Stefan Molyneux

Is bitcoin a bubble? Does gold have an intrinsic value? Is bitcoin a ponzi or pyramid scheme? Peter Schiff thinks so. Stefan Molyneux and Peter Schiff discuss Bitcoin vs. Gold and the future of money.

http://youtu.be/mFcTJAQ7zc4

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Here's a much better bitcoin debate....

Ed & Ethan 86 Bountiful Baskets of Bitcoin Banter, Blather, and Bluster.

Well, we had a veritable cornucopia of stories lined up for this week but the Bitcoin bug bit us and bit hard.

After hearing Peter Schiff talk about how Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme, we decided to book him for a quick back and forth that turned into an entire segment! We couldn't let it go and turned to Erik Voorhees, a Bitcoin business rockstar and eloquent defender of the world's leading cryptocurrency to take on some common myths pushed by Peter during our second half.



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I don't have time to watch these now, but I want to!

All I can say without watching them is I probably agree with Peter, like any commodity prices will rise and then they will drop, bitcoins price not dropping can suggest it is in a bubble, but make no mistake it WILL come down.

As a service, it makes sense for people to not use FRN's, but as a product, it is no different than an FRN. Don't kid yourself, I've heard all the lies about it being stable, not cornerable, not controlled. EVERYTHING, ALL commodities are controlled in someway or it would have no value period.

Someone has to lose so others can win. To suggest everyone can win, is to guarantee your in a bubble.

Maybe I just pick this stuff up faster than most people, but I have said all along, and said this before I saw peter say it, bitcoins value will eventually drop to 0, and everyone who holds them will be SOL. The only thing holding it up, is it ability to be converted BACK into FRN's or some other fiat currency. You lose that, and you can bet people will stop accepting them for their products.

I love Peter, but I HATE when

I love Peter, but I HATE when he always interrupts and never let's anyone get a word in..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

8 minutes in...

these guys both need to learn a little bit more before they go out making promotional ads like this one.

For Peter (economic advisor to the Ron Paul 2012 campaign) to say that money backed by deposits is secure is laughable.

For Stefan (spiritual savant to the sages) to say that it only costs $10 to mine a bitcoin is misinformed. The cost of mining will increase correspondingly to the dollar value of a bitcoin as more mining machines are sold and the odds of unearthing a block chain decrease.

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

Why one or the other why not

Why one or the other why not embrace both?

Is said this before.

But I think that the perfect way to use money is to SAVE in gold, and use Bitcoin for TRANSACTIONS or short term savings.

Sure, a concurrent currency sounds great....

As much as we might like the idea of an alternative currency to that of the one we are otherwise coerced into using, the very fact that it isn't backed by either coercion or positive asset makes it no more safe than the most suspect of currencies dealt out by the sketchiest of the world's third world nations and there simply is no reason for the market to not abandon it at any given moments notice. Thus it is no better than any fiat currency and certainly in many ways potentially more volatile; which is a lousy characteristic for a currency to have.

At least it is, as we see the dollar limping by as a reserve currency, it continues to act as if it isn't as fiat as it actually otherwise would be because, while it is the dollar hasn't been backed by positive asset in over 40 years, people and countries are bribed, kept in power, and extorted so as to not abandon it.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Why does Peter keep

Why does Peter keep interrupting every 10 seconds? Is he so important and ingenious that every time he talks people will just stop and listen? He sounds like an arrogant know-it-all who gets angry whenever someone says something that might challenge his beliefs. The only reason he is angry is because he wishes he had bought some and every else is going to get rich while he with his cash and gold make nothing. Gold is going down; digital currencies are the future. Buy now before it goes completely parabolic. peace.

pgrady
f___ all forms of govt.

I'm with you 10000% ... he

I'm with you 10000% ... he does it all the time on his radio show so I eventually stopped listening..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

that's just peters style

and it is cringeworthy. i remember watching him over the years debate on tv and he does come off rude. i always cringed when he did it and hoped he did not offend the host too much so they would have him back.
stef has followed him too and looks like he took computer counter measures to put a stop to it.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

when you know the truth,

when you honestly know the truth, you'll do your best to get it out there.

he doesnt know the truth

he doesnt know the truth

pgrady
f___ all forms of govt.

For once in a debate

he couldn't mute his opponent. Just the opposite. I found that hilarious.

Paul 3V0L's picture

How do I buy Bitcoin?

I've been reading and watching videos on Bitcoin a lot lately and decided I want to purchase some. What is the best way to go about doing it? I know there are all sorts of websites you can go to transfer funds from PayPal to some middle man to obtain them, but what about security measures? Buying anonymously seems to be the way to go but I have no clue where to start. I'm most concerned about getting hacked and someone stealing my stash. I could really use some guidance. Thanks.

Twitter: @MyRealThought_s
Instagram: Libertarian_Thoughts

a quick read

Bitcoin Self-Defense, Part I: Wallet Protection

http://www.dailypaul.com/304563/bitcoin-self-defense-part-i-...

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Never use paypal to obtain

Never use paypal to obtain BTC, they can use chargebacks to scam you out of your money. For the US, coinbase would be the easiest as that's what most people recommend. You can pay with a bank transfer to obtain BTC with them.

Localbitcoins.com is a bit more hassle, but because of that extra hassle, the coins are cheaper too. And I believe the American community is great over there, so you could get some tips by meeting up. But always meet up in place with lots of people. That way, they can't mug you.

Bitstamp.net is also a favourite of mine. It's ideal for both the US and Europe.

If you buy coins online, always use 2 factor authentication for extra security. If you don't, they can hack your account to steal your coins. You will need to download an app in order to use that (google authenticator).

When using websites, you must not leave either money or BTC for an extended period of time on those websites, since they can be hacked. Storing the BTC on your own comp is the safest. Make atleast 2-3 backups of your wallet, because if your comp crashes, your BTC will be gone. You can copy the wallet on USB or you can write down the private key on paper.

paypal is ok

if you use a reputable bitcoin seller on localbitcoins.
last i saw paypal was accepting the blockchain as proof of delivery.
be cautious though and meet in person if possible.
lots of people are using coinbase and blockchain.info but i never have.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Alright...

I would love to help you purchase Bitcoin, but the methods I used way back when no longer work. What I can say is due to charge-backs (I've lost hundreds, another reason Bitcoin is the best way to pay online), you must pay IN CASH. This can be a money order, physical cash, etc... but anyone who isn't an idiot will not take credit card payments for Bitcoin. This is a fault of fiat, not Bitcoin.

One website I've heard about (but not used) is localbitcoins.com, which helps connect you to sellers in your area.

What I can help you out with wallet security.

(Note: The advice I'm about to give should not be used to manage huge amounts of cash-- there are more secure methods. This is a good way to manage security and convenience for everyday use.)

1.

Set up an account on BlockChain.info. Download a local copy. Do not place this copy on you hard drive, but on a USB drive in your safe. This will protect against their web-servers or your computer going down.

2.

Create a secure password for your Blockchain wallet. If you are scared you will forget, write down a copy and lock it in your safe. THERE IS NO PASSWORD RESET LINK. Link your account to a secure email with a password different from your Blockchain account. If you have lots of Bitcoin consider purchasing a YubiKey for $30 (place in your safe). If you want to access your Bitcoin on a regular basis you can place withdraw limits on your account (so a Humble Bundle video game purchase will require only a simple password, while a new computer from BitcoinStore.com will require retrieving the Yubikey from your safe). This will protect against thieves.

Now if somebody wants to steal your Bitcoin they must...

1. Know your username.
2. Know your password.
3. Know your email address.
4. Know your email password.
5. Break into your house, crack your safe, and steal your Yubikey.

At this point, you should be able to sleep soundly. And of course (as mentioned above) something always could happen-- this method is about balancing convenience with security. So if you purchase TONS of Bitcoin you have no intention of using, an offline wallet in your safe may be better.

Bitcoin Changes The Game A Bit...

The ability to process bitcoin transactions instantly and around the world are tremendous benefits over precious metals that cannot be ignored. The last time I tried sticking a gold coin in an e-mail I almost got electrocuted. Point is, yeah gold has intrinsic value but it's not easy to conduct transactions with.

The ability of bitcoins to avoid governments, be mined, are limited and make almost instant long-distance transactions is of much more value than a precious metal which is more of a wealth savings device than a true form of currency. Especially in the digital/internet age where we need to be able to conduct transactions instantly and with people on the other side of the world.

In reality I'd recommend both precious metals and bitcoin. But in my opinion bitcoin seriously exposes flaws in precious metals and makes me look at them more as a way to save or protect wealth (at least as of now) than anything else.

Very disappointed in Peter

He just can't get his head around a couple of basic concepts that this is about so much more than tulip mania 2.0.

Bitcoin is a protocol, not the actual currency. It can be tweaked (with the approval of hundreds of thousands of coders) to fix any problems so his negatives, while 'possible' not proven, are temporary. This protocol has applications in many other forms. Contracts can be guaranteed and even validated by 3rd party arbitrators. This is huge for the online world by itself, but there's more. It brings in the potential for virtually anything that wants to be secured to do so. Think polling and voting.

Bitcoin being adopted by more and more people is lowering the demand for dollars. This, while still small now, adds pressure to take down the Fed and ECB, et. al. Since that increases dollar inflation, it becomes self reinforcing to support bitcoin. Basically, all fiat currencies can now be scrutinized in a new light that's never going to be favorable again. Their monopoly on money is fading and that's growing at an exponential rate. As with any exponential growth, few people recognize the implications until it's far too late. People may not be overtly aware of this but I think they're aware something like this is afoot.

Just like how it takes down the Fed, it also unceremoniously and unmercifully goes after the entire financial system. From small town banks to regional/central ones to stock trading firms to insurance companies to even lending and saving, they're all in the line of fire. Will all of these completely go away? I highly doubt it. Are any of them totally safe from their industry completely vanishing? I think that's a no also.

Should the world truly wake up to these facts and swap fiat for BTC, it wouldn't take 1 week and everyone in power would either lose it immediately or would lose their revenue stream that's maintaining their wealth. In trade for this, the productive people would be the beneficiary of that wealth transfer. However, at that point, it's just a matter of time and they'll lose power or turn to outright violence. This is because they only hold their power from violence or wealth they've earned from past violence. Either way, we win because we have the numbers.

I don't think you should be

I don't think you should be disappointed in what PS is saying, he is careful in his financial transactions, he is saying that you should be careful and these are his reasons. It's always good to consider all sides of an issue then make your own decision. He has a good record of seeing through nonsense like the housing bubble.

Stef gets BC's though donations and says that he's going to hold on to them because he believes that because they are limited to 21 million BC"s they will appreciate. Maybe, I wonder if he would buy them out of his own pocket at it's current price?

My view is that they seem to be good for trading but not for a store of value.

I don't have a problem with his healthy scepticism

I have a problem with his arrogance in being short-sighted. When you don't understand something, most intelligent people shut up until they learn enough to debate it.

I also don't doubt that they have the potential to drop in value by a ton. I just think that their utility is of genuine value to enough people that it won't go to zero. As such, it will increasingly be used for such utility, across the globe and if so, there will just have to be a few billion dollar's worth of value in it to smooth the volatility. That points to a value of today's $200k or a little more than the average house. I believe it will go higher but I have 50% trust that it will settle around that number.

"not for a store of value" Ok, what if you had a dozen of them and saw a news report that said the dollar had just crashed. Would you run to trade them in for dollars or for gold, run to spend them or laugh at Bernanke on TV?

peter's point is that people

peter's point is that people buy gold for the sake of just having it. people buy bitcoins because they can trade them or sell them at a future profit. hence, gold has an value that is inherent, whereas bitcoin doesn't.

""not for a store of value"

""not for a store of value" Ok, what if you had a dozen of them and saw a news report that said the dollar had just crashed. Would you run to trade them in for dollars or for gold, run to spend them or laugh at Bernanke on TV?"

You don't buy fire insurance after the house burns down. What you don't seem to understand is there is no Bitcoin, there is vodka, toilet paper, precious metals, anything that actually exists and you can trade is a store of value. When the ship hits the iceburg who knows what will be left running, are you going tell people that you have some bitcoins that you want to trade for food but they have to wait till the internet comes back online?

I'm with PS on this, be careful and don't put all your eggs in one basket.

That reminds me

A guy once said to me in regard to hard currency that "you can't eat gold." I replied that "you can't eat paper either." The advantage to gold is it cannot be endlessly printed.

[F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson

Eating Gold

Although it might sound a little bizarre, the answer is 'yes, you can!'

If you look into it, you'll find that eating gold goes way back in history.

These days, you're most likely to find edible gold flakes in things like wedding cakes and alcoholic liquors.

http://food-drink.blurtit.com/28288/can-you-eat-gold-

A better way to put it would be, "You can eat gold but it has no nutritional value so why bother?"

SteveMT's picture

Why bother? Gold does have medicinal values.

'Gold is very resistant to bacteria and so is often the material of choice for implants that are at risk of infection, such as in the inner ear,' says Dr Richard Holliday, of the World Gold Council.

'It's used in wires for pacemakers and for stents that help support weak blood vessels in the treatment of heart disease. In fact, many surgeons prefer gold-plated stents because they have the best visibility under X-ray.

'A new surgical procedure for prostate cancer involves inserting three gold grains into the prostate. The position of the gold grains can be detected using X-rays, allowing doctors to target the prostate position within one or two millimetres.'

The use of gold compounds in medicine is called chrysotherapy. Since 1929, when a French doctor discovered its anti-inflammatory properties, gold compounds in drugs have been used to treat rheumatoid arthritis.

Scientists do not know how it works but some believe gold - injected with the drug Myocrisin, usually through the buttocks or thigh - modifies the immune response in those with the disease.

However, as an injectable treatment, it's only ever recommended if all else has failed, as some people have suffered side-effects, including mouth ulcers, kidney problems and skin rashes.

In the past few decades, gold compounds have also been found to be useful as potential HIV agents and even cancer treatments.

'Although not all cancer drugs contain metal, the most widely used treatments for many types of cancers are drugs such as cisplatin, whose chemical formula contains platinum.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1024865/Medicine-g...
http://www.gold.org/technology/uses/medicine/
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Gold-is-Used-in-Medicine?&id=3...

That's interesting, learn

That's interesting, learn something everyday.

...

I'm sorry. Your story is a pie in the sky.

Modern banking does not have to fear from Bitcoin. It does nothing to take the power back. It is simply handing the power to a new group.

Please provide a bona fide claim.

All rights reserved and no rights waived.

One man's castle

You're saying that there's no chance at all (0.00000%) that banks will lose money from people switching to bitcoin and doing global transactions for free? How about from all the myriad other services that banks provide, which are now subject to peer-to-peer? You do realize that they're all leveraged many times their assets, right? You do realize that this supports a stock death spiral should their stock drop from news of a pseudo bank run, right? There's no chance at all? Hmmm. If DrBatshit says so.

Just to clarify, can you identify this "new group" that receives the power should it be lost by the banking industry?

...

One man's castle is another man's church.

I just don't have blind faith in your relegion.

The modern banking system is built on contracts.

Bitcoin is a piece of software that has no promise to be redeemed for anything of value.

It's value is one of perception. A Novelty at best.

You cannot tell me the future but your claims omit this fact.

All rights reserved and no rights waived.