10 votes

Bitcoin - A Flawed Faith Based/Emotion Backed Currency

Bitcoin is backed by nothing other than the hope that it might be worth more tomorrow.

Early Adopter Smugness

Bitcoin is like religion. You have to believe in it. You have to believe it has value and you must find a community of believers that also think it has value.

Bitcoin has an army of believers and evangelizers who have a vested interest in convincing others that there really is something behind the digital curtain.

Faith in Bitcoin is an ideology no different than faith in government; except governments have the force of law to defend their ideologies and currencies. While the dollar is not backed by anything other than the “full faith and credit” of the issuer, legal tender laws ensure its use.
http://smaulgld.com/the-case-against-bitcoin-a-faith-basedem...



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The real advantage of metal coins

is that it is so simple to use compared to Bitcoin.

If I want silver or Gold I can go to my local Flea market, hand the coin dealer some cash, and drive away with my coins. If I want to sell they, I take them back to the coin dealer at my local flea market, and get some Cash.

If I want Bitcoins, I have to open an account, so I have an electronic wallet to store them, and pay someone for that service. Then I have to go to CVS with cash, trust an electronic system to wire cash to Joe Blow in British Columbia, then email him saying I want some Bitcoins, and then wait until the Bitcoins show up in my electronic wallet. If I want to later sell the Bitcoins I have to find a market, where I will have to pay a fee.

Now I know with the silver or gold coins the Flea market owner takes a cut, but it is all included seamlessly in the cost of the coins. I don't have any Due diligence for that part of the transaction. The added advantage is that at the flea market I can take the silver coins to the next table and buy ammo with them.

I think that currently Bitcoins are way to hard to use for most people.

During a power outage bitcoins would be useless

Esp if it is due to natural disaster and cell phone towers are down

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LoLz

A Bitcoin / BTC thread, complete with scaremongering & FUD. Wow, some of the posters on the DP are nothing if not predictable.

Here's the scoop kids. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoins produced. Ever. Their intrinsic value is absolutely ZERO without market demand. However, if there IS demand by the market for them, then their value is whatever the market decides. This is unlike the US Dollar, which is intrinsically worth ZERO as well, but the value of which is determined and enforced by the US Government. The important difference which you really ought to be aware of here is that unlike the USD, Bitcoins can never be inflated. So, 10 years down the road when the US Treasury is minting magical $25 Trillion dollar coins like they were pennies what do you think that will do for the market value of a Bitcoin?

So.. believe the FUD all you want about Bitcoin. I'll be waiting patiently to collect more, and more, and more, and more USD from you the longer you wait to adopt them, which mathematically speaking is a certainty. Or adopt them sooner and trade less USD for them and help yourself to break free from the people sucking you dry. Your choice. Personally, I'd rather see people free than enslaved.

FWIW... if you own even 1 BTC, you're among the wealthiest .001% of all BTC holders right now. When all 21 million have been mined, you'll still be in the top 0.0005%. The GDP of the US is about $15.68 Trillion dollars. If every BTC were produced RIGHT NOW, all 21 million of them, were able to gain even only 0.001% of the GDP TODAY (keep in mind the BTC is a global currency and that the US Government keeps on printing money like it's going out of style. I can hardly wait for the mulit-trillion dollar platinum coins to be minted....yay!) each of those BTC would be worth more than $746 MILLION USD. Each.

So... what's a BTC worth? Who knows, but the ones I have are worth far more than I'm going to accept from you for them for the foreseeable future. Meaning that mine aren't on the market for any price today. Meaning that all the rest that are are worth more. Get some, don't get some, whatever. You've all seen the pictures of the wheelbarrows full of cash, right? Think it's not going to happen here?

I agree with you

No sarcasm.

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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

Value derived from a computer mining game!

good grief

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Bitcoin Jesus spreads the faith

Bitcoin Jesus-
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101237537

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I think you should see

I think you should see bitcoin as a largely speculative asset. Not as a currency. Then, you'll be OK.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Promoters of bitcoin tout the currency aspect but

The attention it's getting is because the price is rising

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Yes, in the exact same way

Yes, in the exact same way gold attracted people as it rose. Why else would there be "BUY GOLD" stores on every corner in every city?

Well, to me, bitcoin fails

Well, to me, bitcoin fails the smell test. Moreover, think about it.

A gold-backed money is convertible (to gold), whether at a fixed or floating rate; ultimate it is convertible on demand. The asset that it is convertible to has historically had a lot of value (gold is seen as currency); moreover, gold has some industrial use which gives its value some kind of safety. If a nation has a gold-standard, they can also allow it to be used to satisfy government debts.

Fiat money is not convertible and is on a floating exchange rate, but can be used to pay governmental debts. That is a huge built-in value. Secondly, from a practical standpoint, huge amounts of debt/balance sheets are denominated in dollars, meaning dollars are required to pay them off. Additionally, there are legal tender laws backing the ability of the dollar to pay off even non-governmental debts.

Bitcoin has none of those. It is not widely used in the economy, so debt isn't priced in it. There are no legal tender laws forcing it to be accepted as a payment of debt. No government accepts it as payments for debt. It is not convertible to anything, much less a historically strong asset.

Bitcoin is merely a real asset, with a very tiny cost of creation, implying that it is a largely speculative asset.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

This article is retarded...

This is the Gold Industrial Complex at work, lol.

Go this guy's website, and all you see are ads for gold and silver.

OF COURSE you're against Bitcoin, lol.

I don't even care much about Bitcoin, and barely have any.

But what I find hilarious are the incredibly cliched and predictable OPPONENTS to Bitcoin who can't even disguise the OBVIOUS and TRUE reason they're opposed to Bitcoin: Because THEY are heavily invested in gold, and HATE that gold's prominence is being challenged by a digital currency with great promise.

The subheading for this website mentions gold and silver. This is a gold and silver website, which makes money off gold-company sponsors, frustrated that Bitcoin is stealing gold's light.

From the onset, this article fails: "Bitcoin is based on faith." ALL currencies are based on faith: they are based on the willingness of people to CHOOSE one currency over another. Gold, although undeniably valuable because it meets all the basic criteria of a currency (divisibility, durability, etc.), it still, technically, based purely on the faith and confidence of human beings. This is why the dollar was de-linked from gold: no matter how great gold is, if the PEOPLE of a society don't care for it or have faith in its relevance, then they will do things like de-link the dollar from gold.

To claim that, because Bitcoin is based in faith, then it is poor currency, is a retarded argument to make considering gold is based on the same element (Faith). Hypocritical, obvious contradictions like these, to me, PROVE these anti-Bitcoiners are NOT interested in logic and consistency, but instead are just butt-hurt by Bitcoin's rise, relevance, and prevalence.

The rest of the article is not worth my time...

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but people value gold for

but people value gold for itself. people don't buy bitcoins just to have bitcoins, they value bitcoin for the payment trasferring service--NOT the bitcoins themselves. each coin can be divided into 10 million individual pieces that all retain the utility of wealth transfer, therefore, they are not scarce and are quite common, especially because there will always be copycats introducing other digital currencies with the same properties. whereas with gold, it's utility is directly tied to its mass and there is only so much of it to go around. the less of it you have the less utility you have, therefore it is precious and scarce and valued by people.

ouch

spot-on analysis. this is especially true of the "silver dealers" on youtube like chris duane.

i like silver and (to a lesser extent) gold but unlike the "silver dealers" i like to diversify.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

If there were a dollar or any other crisis...

What good would bitcoin be http://www.dailypaul.com/306664/the-governments-secret-plan-...

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in that scenario

btc would be about as good as gold in the short term.

in that scenario what you want first is guns, ammo, food, water and medicine. oh and toilet paper, oh and some weed and/or whiskey too.
after a few weeks gold may come into play but how many shops would take it? most have no clue what it's worth or how to tell if it's real or fake.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

In that same scenario, if you

In that same scenario, if you told people you'll trade them a Bitcoin or another crypto-currency for something, they will look at you like your crazy, because the vast majority of the population has no idea what it even is. I don't know anyone personally that even knows about it. I think at present Bitcoin is not as popular as some of you people like to make it out to be. But what they would probably recognize is old silver coins.

Actually, people who are

Actually, people who are oblivious to many economic and monetary matters ARE aware of Bitcoin. It's gotten quite a bit of mainstream coverage.

Exactly!

Right now all I see are a FEW enthusiasts bidding up a digital commodity that has no intrinsic value. I bet only one percent of the population have even heard of bitcoin. When the SHTF it will be worthless. Besides I see no logic in buying an artificial commodity that is artificially inflated and ready to burst.

Look I up voted

Silver coins would be recognized. Gold would not be practicable

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Silver coins would be recognized by very few

Trying To Sell Silver Dollars For .99 Cents Outside a Coin Dealer

Selling 1 Oz Gold Coin for $25 (when it's worth over $1,500)

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

I've seen that but keep in mind

People like that are not the ones you will be trading with.

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...

Agreed, if you can't recognize a silver dollar than you are food.

All rights reserved and no rights waived.

i down-voted your self up-vote

sorry about that.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

What A Joke

Gold is backed by nothing more than the hope that it will be worth ANYTHING tomorrow.

Gold is like religion, you have to believe in it. The people have to believe it has value or else, it has none. Which is true of anything on EARTH.

Gold has an army of believers who evangelize it and have a vested interest in convincing others to invest in it. Like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff..

Everything you wrote could be applied to Gold. The anti-bitcoin posts make you Gold worshipers appear very insecure. If it's so awesome then shut up about it.

Go save your gold. It's not like Bitcoin investors owe you a damn thing.

Republicae's picture

You are however, missing a

You are however, missing a very important point. Gold and silver, as well as other commodities, were marketable goods that held a value, perceived or intrinsic, it doesn't matter. In the case of gold and silver, they became recognized as the most marketable good in history, meaning they preformed not only as a medium of exchange, but as a notable store of value (perceived or intrinsic), thus those two commodity metals not only were used as money but became the definition of money.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, has none of those qualities, in fact, while I think that Bitcoins are a means of transferring wealth, they are currently acting more like a stock investment rather than a means of monetary exchange. In fact, it appears that it will be impossible for the Bitcoin system to actually function as a real medium of exchange under current conditions, for instead of medium of exchange as an alternative currency, it has evolved into just another investment and as with most hot investments the people that come to the table last usually are the ones who get burned.

Gold and silver have had a much longer record of success and it is not subject, once in your hands, to any authority, it becomes titled real property. The same cannot be said for Bitcoins, there is no way to either obtain title since it is a digital "fiction", and it is subject to all the variables of internet reliability.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Let's voluntarily ban the use

Let's voluntarily ban the use of the term "intrinsic value". Nothing is intrinsically valuable. Value is something derived from demand and supply.

Republicae's picture

Perception lends itself

Perception lends itself toward reality, when something, like gold, is perceived to have an intrinsic value, that perception is therefore, a reality in the minds of those who perceive it. The reason I used the combination of "perceived or intrinsic" is to express the nature of that reality. All value is perceived.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Bitcoin investors? More like

Bitcoin investors? More like 95% of the people that own Bitcoin bought it as pure speculation. And probably a large percentage of those people that own it, don't even understand what it is and don't care.

If an economic collapse happened today, go tell someone that you're trying to buy a loaf of bread from, or some other item, that you'll trade them a virtual currency for that item and see how far you get. Most people would have no idea what your even talking about.

Are you trying to tell us you don't have a vested interest in hawking the domain name you listed in your post? Really!

True to a point with gold as most of its value is perceived

Monetary value but not true for silver or oil

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