11 votes

Are We Being Hypocritical About Bitcoin?

The US Dollar and Bitcoin have a lot in common. They are one in the same. They are both wearing the same suit.

The Dollar is backed by nothing. Not gold, not silver. No hard asset backs the US Dollar anymore, hasn't since 1933.

Bitcoin is backed by nothing. Not gold, not silver. No hard asset backs Bitcoin, not even a country. It's just an idea. It's a new product from?

Ever since 2007, many of us here on the Daily Paul have been proponents of a gold and silver backed currency, as the Constitution mandates.

Runaway government via the printing press (in theory) would be put in check by the strict balance of gold and silver. There would be no more wars, because the governments of the world would not be able to afford them. Inflation would not exist, and the value of the dollar would never increase nor decrease because of its gold and silver plated checks and economic balances.

So along comes Bitcoin, but many people here at the DP are not applying the same logic or scrutiny to it which is quite ironic given the site's, "P AU L," Peace Gold Love motto.

If you support Bitcoin, you are supporting the Dollar as well because both currencies are backed by nada.

We can't have our gold and eat it too.

Bitcoin is quite the conundrum given the context of Ron Paul's economic principles.

I so happen to like Bitcoin, even though I can't figure out where the heck it came from. I like it because it's a good idea. Competition is good. But I also think the Dollar is a good idea too. The two currencies are built upon an idea alone. Nobody cares who printed it or where it came from, they just think it's valuable. It's more money, not less.

You have to admit - the Bitcoin logo/image looks like a lottery token or some kind of chip you get in Vegas.

To those who cashed in Big on Bitcoin, congrats! Long ashes my friends.

When the players who won big on Bitcoin turned their, "chips," in, what did they receive in return?

Dollar bills.

The more I think about Bitcoin, the more I think of a valve or water dam redirecting the flow of the monetary currentcy.

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Rooting for bitcoin

I do not own any bitcoin, but I sincerely hope that it succeeds and provides more competition to the status quot. I do own gold and silver. I would gladly participate in Bitcoin if not for the fact that I cannot bear the thought of buying in at record prices. Perhaps when the current insane bubble implodes and we see some stability.

While the price is very high

While the price is very high considering past prices it is still very very cheap if you think it will ever reach mass market acceptance. @ a price of $1225 USD you are getting approximately 816 bitcoin pennies (satoshis) for every $0.01 USD you spend.

While at the same time it takes 1.36 USD (136 pennies) to buy 1.00 Euro (100 cents). That 1.36:1 ratio is much much closer than the current 1:816 ratio that exists in the bitcoin exchange rate.

"Backed by anything"

I have a problem with that ... soundbite. The only reason why something is "backed" by something is because that is the representation of that which is backing it.

For example, in a gold standard, paper would be representational of gold, which are finite.

However, the only reason why proponents consider backing to be NECESSARY is because they think it's PRECIOUS. Technically, anything can be used for backing, as long as people think it's precious.(Hell, seashells have been used in some regions of Africa before they entered the global market)

The point is, gold is really just metal, why is it any different? Because people THINK it's precious. BitCoin is the same, it's something that is, to my knowledge, finite(and we know how many there are), so why is it any different?

Only difference I see are in 2 areas:
1. bitcoin is digital, while gold is material
2. bitcoin has a finite amount we already know, gold does not, there are still mines digging gold up every day.

So the reason why bitcoin doesn't have to be backed by anything, because it IS the thing that people think are precious. And if people want to use bitcoin to do transanction, why the hell is that a problem!?

I really, really regret not putting my money into buying bitcoins, I thought it was just a scam when Adam Kokesh mentioned and rallied it, sigh. Lost opportunity

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

thats actually a pretty good point.

it also suggests there is a mathematical limit, or restraint on bitcoin.
a forever limiting mathematical theorem would have almost the same properties as Gold. except for transportable and durability.

within context of course.

frickin bankers. endless mind games.

Uh... I guess?

If I'm taking this right, the problem with gold is that not one wants to carry them around, they're heavy.

So banks are created for safekeeping and borrowing.

To this day, there are hardly things that gold react with which can destroy it, but people want things that are lighter and more mobile now. As far as I know, bitcoins can only be subdivided, and there are no ways to destroy or create them.

BUT, it doesn't need to be represented by something because it IS that thing, and conveniently there are units for it!

So the bank middleman is pretty much eliminated, unless you don't want to be robbed of bitcoins and choose to put it into some kind of future bank, which I sort of anticipate.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Portability

Is what he's talking about. I can physically move large amounts of wealth via physical gold since each gram/ounce has a very high value. You can carry a few million dollars in gold via some bars relatively easily, or $1200 in your pocket with just a single coin. Try stuffing 1200 FRNs into your pocket.

Bitcoin is the same, I can put as many bitcoins as I have into a wallet, throw it on a USB key and go anywhere. Or just securely send them anywhere via the net.

both "money" AND currency are concepts of the Human mind.

only goods and services exist in the real world.

a comparative analogy would be religion. and this explains why "faith" is needed.

what is that mathematical theorem that bitcoin is based on?
math is the language of the gods you know...

;)

So we clear now?

I might still get bitcoins, because once the bitcoins reach the mass market, which I think it might, it's going to be worth MILLIONS of USD, once people start accepting Bitcoin as something that is as valid as USD, that is.

Still, I don't have a lot of money as a High School student... Sigh, better get to mining, eh?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Buy

Litecoin !

Sorry?

Can you explain? Is this another crypto currency?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

There are multiple ways to

There are multiple ways to get extremely small amounts of free bitcoins with little to no effort. These small amounts do add up if you constantly take them. Some of the sites I have been using lately are: freebitco.in, bitcoins4.me, dailybitcoins.com, bitcoiner.net, bitvisitor.com, bitcoinget.com and cointube.tv just to name a few.

With those few free bitcoin dispensaries you can get a steady stream of BTC flowing into whatever wallet app/program you are using and familiarize yourself with the whole system without risking any of your hard earned FRNs.

That is interesting...

I will definitely try them out, FRNs are still what I use to buy stuff(duh), I am just bummed out that I didn't buy like a few thousands of bitcoins 2 years back so I would be a millionaire highschooler now, haha!

But thanks, how did you discover them?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

I found them from random

I found them from random trolling of bitcoin related stories on www.thebitcoinnews.co.uk. For some reason that site has been down today (possibly due to heavy traffic). Another way to find sites like those is just to do a google search for free bitcoin site or bitcoin faucets.

My bet, is that you probably don't use FRN's at all.

you probably use your debit card.
and that, is, digital currency.

am I right?

;)

Errr

That's not really analogous. That's like saying if I bought something in bitcoins using my cellphone to send/receive a qr wallet info I wod be using my phone as the currency. If you use a debit card, you are using FRNs, just digital FRNs. Debit cards directly take FRNs out of one account and send them to another. If you send cash via mail order you don't say " I pad for it using mail currency" you just sent your FRNs through the friggin mail.

95% of FRN's in "circulation" are "digital".

this has been and remains true for a very long time, depending on how you are counting time. 40 years? that is not a very long time period. within context of the subject matter.

the OP's thesis stands.

if the power. (electricity) goes off.... how will you buy things?
THAT is the hazard involved here.
there are also moral hazards involved. but that is another subject.
peace.

*chuckles*

No, actually, I do when buying online(through my parent) but I do not have a debit card.

Digital currency is useful for payment, really, which is why I believe bitcoin will become mainstream.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Damn, I WISH that I was as smart as you!

and I will soon be 54.

The USG dollar, backed by gold or not,

is just another government program

Saying that supporting

Saying that supporting Bitcoin is supporting the dollar is quite false. Although both dollars and bitcoin are fiat currencies bitcoin does in fact have a true scarcity element to it that is not present in government fiat currencies. The more Bitcoin grows in use and application the more it weakens the dollar and other government fiat currencies. After many months of researching I have concluded that the only thing that actually 'backs' bitcoin is mathematics.

As far as a super computer being able to complete block in minutes statement -- the current network hashrate is faster that 250 times the computing power of the worlds top 500 super computers combined. At least that was the most recent statistic I read. 6,048,458.52 GH/s

For stats on the bitcoin network for the last 24 hours check out this link.

https://blockchain.info/stats

Fiat?

Not trying to be a jerk here, but isn't fiat defined as currency backed by nothing but faith in government? So bitcoin not originating from the government(inb4conspiracy), should it really be counted as fiat?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

The only reason I use fiat to

The only reason I use fiat to describe Bitcoin is because of the fact that it really has no inherent value in and of itself, the only value it has is determined by the market. That may not be the best adjective but meh...just trying to get a point across.

Well

I get your point, but that's not the definition of fiat. Fiat is by decree, as in arbitrary authority giving arbitrary value to something just because the authority can. There is no authority giving bitcoin any value, only a free market. And just as it has been said before, gold has no inherent value, only what the market decides it to be worth,

K, so this highlight the fallacy of your statement

Fiat does mean that the currency has no value as it is coercive in its nature. Once you make something voluntary its value is always determined by the free-market. This is true for gold, silver, cows, grains and tulips.

The market value of money is always determined by the faith that a consumer has that the money will not lose value.

The point you are trying make is that gold is a physical money and is not only used as a money, but also as a luxury item. Gold isn't backed by anything, it is something. the value never changes. Its always worth its weight in gold.

The only difference between gold and bitcoin is that it can be used as something different than money. This is how we invented money.

The problem with the argument as I have presented it(yours with some refining, free of charge) is that now that we have discovered money, it maybe true that we dont need a commodity to back it as long as all the other properties can be synthetically imitated.

Most important of which is its scarcity. Just sayin...

Séamusín

Well, right then

But I was thinking the term was kind of thrown around now a days, like "liberal" to "conservative"(self proclaimed or factually) candidates as "I don't like"

Sorry to nitpick, lol. I do get your point.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Scarcity element? The Fed

Scarcity element? The Fed has created trillions of digital dollars, and they're still hard to come by. Dollars are still scarce, to infinity.

Bitcoin reinforces the idea.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Your

comment here shows you don't understand how Bitcoin's 21 million coin limit works. Just saying (if you think 21 million = trillions).

What YOU don't understand.

are the similarities between the twin concepts.
they are both really one and the same.
can YOU define what a "dollar" is today?
I did not think so.
nobody can.

what you are missing is the central thesis of the OP.

peace.

I don't

follow you. How do you think being able to print FRNs infinitely is the same as something with a hard 21 million limit?

Are you going to present an argument or just rant and leave?

Because, while digital, the idea of bitcoin is that the numbers are limited. It's also not destroyable as far as I know, or inflatable(without banks lying).

So, how is that the same which US dollar is simply CREATED by the federal reserve, while no government agencies, or anyone for that matter, have that ability with bitcoin?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.