Please stop using the term "sheep" or "sheeple"
Submitted by lja5v on Sun, 10/07/2007 - 23:46I greatly urge those of you supporting Dr. Ron Paul from using the terms "sheep" or "sheeple" to refer to those people not currently supporting Dr. Paul or those who are considered "mainstream" and/or have not been made aware of his campaign.
Dr. Ron Paul's message is completely counterintuitive to this kind of language. For LIBERTY to work, we have to have the belief that the majority of the American populace has the intelligence to run their own lives and make decisions on their own. By referring to the greater population as "sheep" or "sheeple" you are inferring that the majority of Americans are unintelligent and unable to make decisions on their own. This is counterintuitive to the message of LIBERTY. You are making an argument that the "sheeple" need a shepherd (ala a Giuliani or Clinton).
On a personal note, I find this language to be very elitist and personally turns me off to what you have to say, even though most of you have very intelligent ideas to present. I only hope it doesn’t turn off those new to Dr. Ron Paul’s campaign.
The Silver Rule
I prefer the Silver Rule (via Ayn Rand) to the Golden Rule: Do Not do un to others as you would Not have others do un to You. I believe this represents Non-interventionist moral behavior.
lmao
i'm gettin the flock outta here.
Here's What People Think When You Call Them Sheep:
Why don't those who use the phrase "sheep" just be honest and say "conformist."
As in "Nazi conformist cheerleaders" or "[c]onformist! Have fun living paycheck to paycheck in your rat-race life."
Ron Paul Monkeys? Or how about Ron Paul's Golden Retrievers?
How about Ron Paul Monkeys or Ron Paul Golden Retrievers.
People here whine about being called moonbats, kooks or any name they or their fellow supporters didn't come up with. Hmmm... let's see here... Ahh, screw it! The Golden Rule only applies to those who disagree with us, right? It doesn't apply to US. People complain bout being called names then do it themselves. In what universe is that cool? I just think name-calling is generally a last resort for people who can't effectively argue their point. And if you CAN argue effectively but still resort to it you can come across as well-informed - and a prick.
Remember the old addage 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar'?
It's true.
Oh, crap! I just called people flies! Don't worry folks, I'll punish myself.
hmmmm...I think "prick" is
hmmmm...I think "prick" is considered name-calling too. what's the punishment for being hypocritical?
Sticks and stones...
This discussion seems to have diverted from the true intention of the original post. The headline above is misleading in that regard. The word "sheep" is not the problem. Name calling itself is not the problem. A few on this system classified a segment of the population as being blind followers ("sheep"). Whether that's true or not is, again, not the problem. The problem lja5v and many others expressed is some insinuated or outright said:
1) "sheep" will always be that way and are to be mistrusted
2) "sheep" are meant to be targeted with a different message and cajoled into voting for Ron Paul, if possible
The point was that there is one message: freedom and liberty for ALL.
Sure, you will come across a person who does not understand that message or why it's relevant. In fact, many of us have admitted to being oblivious to this until recently ourselves. The point is that everyone can understand this message. If you believe these "sheep" cannot, then what is the point of this revolution? We all succeed together or we fail together.
http://dailypaul.com/node/2980#comment-16395
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I don't wanna hear about...
I don't want to hear anything about being oversensitive from this crowd. I've heard people complain - very angrily I might add - that many don't refer to Ron Paul as Dr.
It doesn't matter what your intentions are in regards to use of sheep or sheeple. People don't take the time to ask you what you mean by what you say. Maybe being referred to as an animal that is easily led and blindly follows its group without question could be considered insulting.
I live in rural Iowa and have worked with sheep before. Believe me, it's an insult. Remember when relating people to farmm animals: pigs are slobbish and dirty, cows are big and slow, sheep are stupid and chickens are cowards. I guess it's just plain insulting to be called livestock in any form. How about calling them the uninitiated or something.
IN THE IMMORTAL WORDS OF FORREST GUMP...
"Sheeple is as Sheeple does"
Here's the church
...and here's the steeple, open the doors and find all of the sheeple.
just invite them to the next RP rally and tithe for Dr. Know.
Nothing wrong with "sheep" or "sheeple"
Are you the language police? There's nothing wrong with using the terms "sheep" or "sheeple". And, it doesn't imply stupidity. People are starting to wake up across the land. In order to wake up, you have to realize that you've placed your trust in the wrong people. You go through a process of amazement, disallusionment, anger, and grief.
I am a sheep and a shepherd too. I'm a sheep because I respect the wisdom and leadership of others. I'm a shepherd because I try to be my brother's keeper and try to be a source of enlightenment to others.
Jesus is called the "lamb of God". He is both sheep and shepherd. We are to follow his example.
I'm not going to be intimidated by the language police. If I call people sheeple, it means that they haven't been enlightened--they don't realize that the biggest danger we face is from our own government. It sometimes implies apathy and laziness...but not stupidity.
Boy! Some folks just look for some teeny tiny thing to fuss about.
Jean Allen (fitpitcher@gmail.com) from Tuscaloosa
jean allen
Overly sensitive about the term sheeple...
I think this is a harmless comment about the awareness of most Americans. It think it shows that many are not well read or versed in areas of politics that are important to every single American. The term makes a statement and is meant to catch one's attention to the lack of social awareness many Americans display. Hey you know, TV and mainstream press is gospel in their eyes. It is not their fault nor do I blame most people who act like sheeple. I was once like them. Thank God for the internet and amazon.com where I buy my books. I think it is meant to say just this- "Wake up!"
:-)
I once was lost and now am found, was blind, but now I see.
Yes my friends, I was once a Guliani Sheepe lost and now found by the Ron Paul sheepe - yes I can see.
GO DR. GO
Glendale Keith
Glendale Keith
Giulliani makes it official
Giulliani comes out of the closet and goes for broke by recruiting the extremist neo-cons there are.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21162326/site/newsweek/
Hey, some of my best friends are Sheeple
In my opinion, neither is derogatory, though they may seem to be. Perhaps a phrase like "sleepers" is less offensive, but not by much. I would argue that Sheep/Sheeple is even the correct phraseology and will become more cemented in our language if this election goes poorly for us.
The way I see it, neither is said as an insult because WE WERE ALL SHEEPLE AT ONE POINT! I see it in a sense of being asleep and waking up. "I was blind, but now I see."
It is not a phrase meant to demean a person, rather refer to them prior to their epiphany, the scales falling from their eyes. I also don't think sheeple can be woken by trying to convince them that they're sheeple, it's better to let them listen to Ron Paul and watch the transformation take place. They need to experience the enlightenment for themselves. That's what makes RP supporters so passionate dispite our differences, because most of us felt the same thing. Why would you deny any other living being the chance to experience that? To deny that these people are out there is to deny the very history of many of us. Many of us were suckered into being afraid of the big bad terrorists and thought we'd be safe with a cowboy in charge.
They sold us on a lot of lies, a lot of skewed info, and a lot of fearmongering. It's no wonder so many people are still asleep.
My biggest fear is that people who know that Bush is evil will vote in Clinton or Obama thinking they're the opposite. Those people are sleepwalking still. The uninformed and the fearful are still out there, and in good enough numbers to give millions to Clinton, Obama, Rudy, and Fred to rescue them from either "terrorists" or the last 8 years.
Sleeping sheeple indeed.
We have a lot of Americans to roust from bed each day. Let's get to work.
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Look At All The Happy Creatures
yes indeed
I did not see what you had written (my short comment above yours), the best on this subject yet.
Cheers,
Glendale Keith
Glendale Keith
Amen! And if there aren't
Amen! And if there aren't any "sheeple" out there then we are sunk because that means they already know the things we know and have rejected RP anyway. Let's stop talking about this and get to work. Please see my new forum topic - I was kept awake all night thinking about this stuff. - Cole
How about bluepills?
"To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."
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"To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."
It's exactly like that
Yes, you know exactly what I mean. It's simply a term used to define a person's state before or after opening their eyes. We're not being elitist or high and mighty, we're trying to wake more people up.
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Look At All The Happy Creatures
It's a matter of what you
It's a matter of what you care passionately. Some people care about religion. Others about popular culture. For us it's politics. That doesn't make us superior to other people, they just don't have our interest. So they're not sheeple, they're just harder to bring to the table because politics is outside of their interest zone.
Equal people
Sure there are many of you out there supporting Ron Paul, as do I. And I would probably say alot, if not most of your are more educated or intellegent then I am. But to use the word sheep, when talking about those who are less enlightened then you are, gives the impression that you think yourselves to be superior to others. If this is the case than perhaps you are supporting the wrong candidate, cause Ron Paul is not one to talk down at people. It doesn't help the movement and it puts a wedge between people. Sure a lot of people have habits similar to sheep, and need someone to lead them in the right direction. But I would assume that this is a matter of conditioning and something that can be changed. So please show a little respect for those still in the dark, listen to their complaints and educate them.
I agree
At this point in the campaign, we need to be inclusive, not exclusive. I spent many years in sales and I think it's time to employ the "Feel, Felt Found" sales technique of overcoming objections instead of demonizing those who just haven't been informed yet. It involves listening first:
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar
The thread that won't die.
This thread is getting quite comical even though there are some very serious fundamental undertones.
From the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."
One cannot simultaneously believe in those words and that there exists such a human being that is lesser to oneself. One cannot simultaneously believe in those words and there exists a human being that cannot pursue his own happiness.
The question then becomes: Do you believe in the words of the Declaration of Independence or do you believe in sheep?
I don't know about you, but I'm about to start counting sheep. :)
a whole new can of worms
ha ha ha...this just opens a whole new can of worms - namely what is meant by created equal. Does equal mean same as? hmm... Morally equal? Intellectually equal? Equally skilled? If people are equal in all those ways then I guess a vote for Giuliani is equal to a vote for Ron Paul. Of course this is not what you are saying but it does open a whole new can of worms...lol...I'm going to bed.
Equal means
equal in natural rights
and thus the law must treat them equally
and thus no one is above the law.
this is my message, & i approve of it
actually, dr. paul does use the term "neo-con" in a character-descriptive manner. i don't say, and do not believe, its use is inappropriate.
in fact, what it comes down to is, are labels appropriate? the context of the comment will determine that.
the "group-think" that dr. paul refreshingly desires to disband is the categorization of anyone outside the clique. he stands for individual liberty, not group rights. "neo-con" radio/tv frequently refers to kool-aid drinkers, truthers, and the anti-war crowd, etc in a disparaging manner. in doing so, i am also not advocating fighting fire with fire. but sometimes, colorful language is simply the best description available.
as an example, in the constant struggle to get the media to recognize that "non-intervention" does not equate to "isolationism," it seems reasonable to label some as sheep. those who preach a mantra and are incapable, or unwilling, to change course. this point is proven by the very words which our current president used in a debate prior to his first term.
the use of terms such as "sheep" is not automatically an offensive term. but, when in doubt, do without.
all in all, it never hurts to remember that a subtle argument will usually win-over and drive others to want to know more about the message.
thanks, lja5v
Reminds me of Apple's infamous "Lemmings" Macintosh Office television spot from 1985.
While it was a fun advert for Apple partisans to watch —suits blindly following each other off of a cliff— it turned out that it was not a good idea to insult most of the people you're attempting to sell. Whodathought?
if man is still alive
hmm... i dunno, just seemed like the proper non sequitur
2525
Now I can't get that song out of my head. :)
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Look At All The Happy Creatures
have a cigar
I agree. While I believe we
I agree. While I believe we can use these words, we shouldn't use them here. There are certain places where you shouldn't say certain things. It's not that you can't, it's that it's rude and offensive for some people. We can spread Ron Paul's message without being offensive, Paul does it all the time.