4 votes

I'm frustrated with the anti Bitcoin crowd and their vitriol against it.

Bitcion is not a New World Order tool. However the US Dollar is. Bitcoin is not a threat to Gold, nor does it replace the value in saving in Gold. Rather, it gives us the ability to buy and sell goods in services free of the control of central planners, governments, and banking monopolies.

What self respecting Libertarian, Anarchist, or Freedom supporter would be against a network of individuals coming together to build a tool that enables free exchange?

The Bitcion network has intrinsic value as it eliminates banking fees and simplifies the transfer of funds from one person to another. Bitcoins are just a unit of account within that network.

If you don't like Bitcoin, continue earning money in US Dollars and spending US dollars. See how that works out for you in the long run.



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Who uses words like vitriol?

thats all i have to say

carry on

Ron Paul - Intellectual hero

You see OP, our Daily Paul is targeted by JIDF and AIPAC agents.

They are trying to attack ideas because they are morons. Just tell them to go back to /pol/ on 4chan.

Myers-Briggs

My personality type argument about Bitcoin: 75% of the population are Sensates: touch, texture, color, weight, value, history, and everything tangible, is the way they percieve the world.

Most libertarians are iNtuitives, for whom "reality" is a concept. They see theory, structure, ideas, connections, and around corners. An idea that should work is reliable to them. They trust things that are still in the future, because they can see them, now.

Only when Bitcoin has become successful and developed that history of success, will the Sensates come on board (I know some who still won't use an ATM). Even then, they will resist using something with no texture--that isn't real.

75% of the population--the same ones who vote for the status quo.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Wrong Question

This is the wrong question, "What self respecting Libertarian, Anarchist, or Freedom supporter would be against a network of individuals coming together to build a tool that enables free exchange?"

Obviously, all of them would be against it if it was government-mandated or fraudulent, and all of them would defend our right to be against it, personally, for any reason, and some of them would be against it for reasons of their own, but without being in favor of government mandates. "Being against" is our right.

Individual freedom is what we want. We absolutely want anyone, as an individual, to be against Bitcoin if they want to be against it, as long as they don't use force. Duh.

The market will decide who's right on this one, but my advice is to be careful about what you say in favor of Bitcoin: even if you're right that Bitcoin has intrinsic value, that won't stop it going into a bubble, or prevent some from making fraudulent claims.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

I have never said bitcoin was unusable

I simply said it is not money. It is another competing currency that bases its value off of something else, just like the dollar. The dollar started the same way bitcoin did, with the promise it won't be tampered with, that it would be worth something, and like the dollar, it's hype is the only thing supporting it.

The fact you think it holds intrinsic value of any kind, even as a "network" shows your ignorance on the history and economic expertise of such a topic.

You have simply taken a dollar, and made it(by itself) worth less than what a dollar is printed on, as it is now invisible money.

The only thing supporting bitcoin, is its value as a competing currency, and as soon as they start arresting people for using "currency" other than the US Dollar, it will end fast, and dry up.

Or as I have also said, anyone with enough money can easily corner a bitcoin market, remove a crap ton of them from existence, until their price goes up, then flood the market with them, making that one person rich, and everyone else's bitcoin plummet. In fact, the government could even do this.

As I'm eating my Cap'n Crunch... Bitcoin is a taxable asset

"Hans Christian Holte (Norway’s director general of Taxation) has stated that ....Bitcoin is considered an asset on which capital gains tax can be charged. According to Bloomberg, the currency can now be taxed under the wealth law and the losses in the currency can be deduced from taxes. Norwegian Kristoffer Koch whos assets in Bitcoins are worth $866,000 (valued October) is going to be taxed under the new move."
-----------------
Anybody wanna bet other countries are going to follow suit?

But of course everybody with Bitcoins is already betting against it.

Seriously. Please keep your wits about your high risk Bitcoin investments.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

So buy, but don't sell. No

So buy, but don't sell. No capital gains to worry about and you accelerate the flight from the dollar.

If you don't like Bitcoin maybe you'll like this ... (humor)

Experts say the new altcoin’s infrastructure is much more solid than those of predecessors. It’s a massive national network of pneumatic tubes. Transactions, scrawled on government stationery, are dispersed to Post Office nodes by governmental suction. ”Logging on is as simple as walking to the nearest Post Office or Federal Building.” said the expert. ”It just feels right seeing your paper transaction receipt flowing pneumatically to someone’s desk: none of that digital BS.” read more ...

Central control is never wise.

Central control is the reason many don't trust Bitcoin.

So many "coins" that are run by central control, is no different than a central bank. Like one says..

"Let every man be free to shop with what they will, when they will, for which they will."

In other words, but out and let all currencies be decentralized. Decentralized currencies are the only workable currencies. Every last person on the face of the earth, should be able to trade for some equal or lesser value with a digital signature. Without centralized control of the process.

SteveMT's picture

Why the vitriol? Here are some reasons.

These similarities between Bitcoin and our present monetary system are striking.

The people/organizations who actually run the Federal Reserve is a 100 year old mystery.
The people/organizations who created Bitcoin is a 5 year old mystery.
The value of a Bitcoin and the value of a dollar are very variable.
Bitcoins and dollars were both created out of thin air.

If given the choice of having access to $1M in 2024 in either Bitcoin, paper U.S. dollars, or gold at their current prices today, which would you chose?

I would save with Gold, and spend with Bitcoin

why is it so hard for people to grasp this?

The Red Coats are coming!

those that down vote please explain,

why is it better to spend US dollars than it is to spend Bitcoin?

Save in Gold, spend in Bitcion. Seems logical. Especially if you are against the US Dollar monopoly. You can't spend your Gold with retailers, but there are 1000's of companies that now accept Bitcoin.

The Red Coats are coming!

I didn't downvote you

but I can explain why that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The volatility of bitcoin makes it unsuitable as a place to keep the money you're going to spend in the short term, unless the idea of a checking account that gambles with your money is appealing.

Plus, in most cases "spending bitcoins" means using (or the retailer using) something like bitpay to convert the bitcoins to FRNs, or gyft to convert the bitcoins to FRN-denominated gift cards, so you're really still spending FRNs. If you want to take some bitcoin winnings off the table that's one way to do it, but if the purchase ends up in FRNs anyway you're not really escaping the tyranny of the US Dollar.

If it works for you

it works for you, if it doesn't, it doesn't, in my case, it doesn't at this price and point. Ultimately the gov, controls the internet, heck all it would take for the gov. to confiscate your bitcoins is one supposedly "downloaded" illegal porn, and they can take it all without a wimper.

With that said, I do wish I purchased bitcoins back when I was thinking about it when it was just a dollar.

No one can "take your

No one can "take your bitcoins" without the passwords (if in a digital form), and if you have your funds in a paper wallet it would be impossible without the printed document. If you have an eidetic memory, you could theoretically have no electronic or printed records.

I'm frustrated with the anti-Onion crowd...

and their vitriol against it.

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

Agree

it has to stop!

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Why are we still talking about bitcoins?

Buy gold a Silver and watch banksters and elites shit their pants when the comex can no longer make deliveries. You know this wasteful spending on this none practical cyberspace currency is actually buying time for the fed and their banksters...

You promise the following false panacea:

"...it (Bitcoin) gives us the ability to buy and sell goods in services free of the control of central planners, governments, and banking monopolies.
------------------------------------------------

The statement above is false for all of the following reasons:

1. Currency out->FAIL
There are NO goods or services needed that I can buy with Bitcoin that are competitive with my current suppliers.

2. Currency in ->FAIL
As a business owner, I would be remiss to start accepting a volatile "currency" that may lose a large part of it's value over days, hours or minutes.

3. Privacy ->FAIL
I don't see the NSA, IRS, CIA or any other node of the biggest, most unprincipled, murderous, enslaving, torturing government doing anything serious to stop Bitcoins. Therefore, I don't believe for a moment the computers handling Bitcoins are or will be anonymous or secure in any way.

4. Reduced transaction cost. -> FAIL
Fees, banks, credit card co's etc. I believe the government wants BITCOINS to be wildly successful so they can control it and manipulate it to tax online transactions worldwide, inflate and deflate it at will, allowing the Fed and Treasury to dispose of the cash dollar system entirely.

5. Investment vehicle. This is the closest to having merit. It is super high risk especially in light of the 4 reasons above. Too high risk for me.

Therefore there is no reason for me to buy Bitcoins.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

#1 is False, #2 is False, #3 is False

1. Currency out: you can buy gift cards from 100's of companies with gift cards to through Gyft.com. You can buy groceries, clothing, gas, and consumer goods for basically everything needed. True, there are less companies that accept bitcoin than US Doallars, but the # of vendors that accept biticon is exponentially growing. There are 1,000 of merchants that accept bitcoin.

2. Currency in: Through Bitpay.com, a merchant can accept bitcion and cash out to US dollars instantly, taking no risk to the volatile price swings that Bitcoin is seeing in it's early stages. A company can price their goods and services in US dollars, and therefore the bitcoin exchange is set according to the market price at that time. And that merchant would have $0 processing fees.

3. Privacy: I can send you payment right now, and you would never know my name, address, or credit card number with Bitcoin.

The Red Coats are coming!

3 strikes rebuttal

1. Bitcoin gift cards are a hassle and there are % + fees, passwords, scratch-offs, expiration dates, the companies go out of business and fractional leftovers steer buying habits in a direction I wouldn't normally do. I've looked at the list of vendors every few months since E-Gold and Moneybookers and I still don't need more T shirts, Indian wind catchers or overpriced electronics.

2. My commercial web site is 24/7 and I'm not. I get a million buck order at 10 pm and it's worth nothing by the time I read the Captain Crunch box in the morning, but I still have to ship the million dollar order that afternoon. No thanks.

3. Bitcoin Privacy. If Bitcoins were private, the governments would stop it from being private. Haven't you been reading about Google and others being threatened with treason and life in prison without so much as phone calls or legal representation?

----------"Privacy on computers does not exist."----------

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Too much personal attachment / emotion here...

I've read through all of these comments and have seen so many posts on this, and it's just ridiculous. People here and everywhere put emotions into this stuff, because they are invested. They take criticism as if it is attacking them, because they are so insecure with themselves and their own investments/decisions.

This applies to the dollar, bitcoin, and silver/gold. Some people present logical arguments on each side, but so many reply with stupid/emotional responses. All three have ups and downs. Just be confident with your own decisions; ask for honest opinions if you desire them, but seriously...it's annoying reading half of this stuff. There are situations in which (even in the long run) the dollar could very well turn out to be better than bitcoin - just as easily it could go vice versa. Personally, I found an investment I am very confident with. 90% collectible silver coins. I'm a numismatist, so I get personal satisfaction with each purchase, I get silver value - and I'm very confident in my actions.

So, stop being emotional in these replies. Don't give 'when you flee, when this is confiscated, when dollar crashes, when your mother steals your bank info, etc. etc. etc.' Hypotheticals are great and all, but give real reasons. REAL reasons. Please and thank you.

Bitcoin is created out of thin air from nothing of value

That gives a pyramid control of the currency which always leads to slavery and genocide.

Its like a dam operator controlling the flow of the water to the advantage of those down stream as well as providing electric from turbines.

It all looks good on paper until the person in the control position use their power position for self gain.

Then they pervert the flow through expansion and contraction of the flow until a flood is caused, then the victims get blamed after all the reason the dam held the water back until bursting was for the good of those folks at the bottom of the pyramid.

Rothschild has enslaved humanity with false claims of national debt using a extorted theft tax system to identify and eliminate any who do not submit.

If bitcoin is the most legit best deal in the entire planet, the Rothschild family will take it over (if they do not own and control it at present) and pervert it as they have every other currency in humanity.

Enlightened disengagement in a leaderless revolt will lead humanity to freedom.

sovereign

I am not anto bitcoing, but we now know it is in the very

least ran via an agreement with the Federal Government. Like any investment it matters not the opinion of others, yet for those who wish to remain in a true asset there is no comparison, gold and silver will reign supreme in the end. Like many fads bitcoin exploded into a bubble, and may well out perform other investment ideas, yet by simply cutting the power, shutting down transaction sites, or simply having the media label it a threat to security it can be taken away like dust in the wind. Anyone that got in early and got paid for their investment did good, but like all things government has its hands in the bubble has burst and the result is that bitcoin is worth what it is worth, today it may be down, tomorrow up, and in a week worthless, unlike its physical counterpart that can be held in the hand, buried in the yard, and in 1,000 years still have value.

If you like BC then jump on board, if not then don't, but please stop whining because people disagree with a pet investment that is showing the signs of manipulation that other investments outside the mainstream suffer.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

run via agreement with the fed govt?

Not even close to being true.

Perhaps Not

But the gunvernment is watching with great interest, surely. A currency made out of thin air - no gold, no tangible assets, no dirty printing presses - no limits.....just keystrokes! - they'll be saying "hey, that sounds like an idea we can get behind!"

If bitcoin takes off as a currency - the government will monopolize the concept.

I want to Buy some Bitcoin and need

a link for a step by step on how to do it. I have read up on Bitcoin here on the DP for sometime now and I want to go through the process of obtaining some which still seems a bit foreign to me.

I have some gold and silver.. I have some worthless paper money and other various investments but no Bitcoin yet so why not take some worthless paper money and get some Bitcoin. I'm no expert on it's value but based upon some of the recent posts and high volatility it would seem that valuation right now is pretty good? Thanks in advance for any pointers and if this has been addressed in a recent thread I'm sorry for posting my request / question here.

Finally pissed off enough to spread the word of Dr. Paul
Here's song I wrote for a close friend and wounded Iraq war veteran:
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_8738783

TwelveOhOne's picture

Coinbase can get you started in 10 minutes or so

See http://www.coinbase.com, very slick setup.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
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Go here

Www.ybitcoin.net then go to read now

Can we try humor instead?