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Why Mourn Racialist, Commie Nelson Mandela?

http://dollarvigilante.com/sites/default/files/blog/rszobamamandela.jpg
Flags flew at half staff around the world. Current and former top gangsters flew in from all points to pay their respects. The mainstream state-dependent media tells us that a good man has died. So you just know that despite his lovely smile, Nelson Mandela must have been something of a monster.
The following post is by TDV editor, Gary Gibson.]http://dollarvigilante.com/sites/default/files/images/ggibson.jpg

http://dollarvigilante.com/sites/default/files/images/MandelaNecklacing.jpg
Back in his prime Mandela was a violent communist resisting a rascist, fasco-socialist colonial state. It gets tricky hoping for both sides to lose. So most people around the world played it safe and backed the black guy instead of the racist apartheid government that put him behind bars for nearly three decades. Then, much as they did after World War II, they pretended that the racist fascist national socialist was pure evil while the murderous communist was the selfless, world-improving good guy. We here at TDV still think that in a match between Hitler and Stalin, you should hope they both knock each other into bloody comas.

I don't say these things lightly. My father's side of the family is a bunch of black Carib redistributionista socialists/communists in the Mandela mold. They are mourning his death and I don't dare put a word of derision about the man on my Facebook page.
http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2013/12/11/why-mourn-raciali...



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Why aren't you equally pissed at Reagan and Thatcher?

..for directly supporting an apartheid government, and vetoing sanctions against it? How selective.

That is an interesting

That is an interesting point.

In a vacuum, I support Reagan not getting involved in SA politics.

However, in reality, he was not neutral but more favorable towards the South African apartheid government. Moreover, his White House had its fingers stuck all over the affairs of other nations...you're OK with placing covert agents in Middle Eastern countries, but not OK with making a simple statement denouncing a racist regime's policies?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

I say...

...good riddance communist scum.

May you rot in hell.

But most feel differently, so I guess I'll have to get used to seeing hipster dufi alternating Mandela and Che T-shirts.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

You are one hateful bastard

He paid his respects. Mandela (communist or not) fought for equal rights for his people, who were severely oppressed. South African apartheid was very similar to American Jim Crow laws, which one of my parents endured. As for Castro and being anti-communism, whatever. I don't see any Chinese embargo or much hate for China.

The scariest part

is the people who say, "Sure he was a Communist. So what?"

Blows my mind.

I suppose that you hate the

I suppose that you hate the vast majority of the founding fathers. Among there were slavers, anti-semites, racists, etc. Despite all the positives things they did, those things disqualify them from veneration and praise.

Also, in my eyes, Mandela is a communist as much as Ron Paul is a segregationalist. After all, Ron Paul said he would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

The hypocricy of some people

The hypocricy of some people with respect to the founding fathers is astounding.

To them, the founding fathers were all about liberty, except for those couple of things that they got wrong, like slavery. But they're willing to overlook it, beause hey, they were right that the king shouldn't be able to tax our tea without allowing us representation in Parliament.

The guy who was fundamnetal in getting rid of Apartheid, one of the most anti-liberty government institutions imaginable? Dismissed, he was a commie.

Great point

Not happy they can't see the forest because all the trees are in the way.

SteveMT's picture

Relativism lives!

I heard that Chairman Mao helped some people once, so that means that he was not all bad. I heard that Hitler helped a little old lady across the street once. That means that he had at least some goodness in him. This kind of think is dangerous, and it's the reason for gridlock on any issue. People are not all bad, and people are not all good. It's called relativism. Why is Ron Paul loved so much here? Because he was an absolutist! There is a right and wrong, and there is still a black and white, not just grays.

Your comparing Mandela's

Your comparing Mandela's crimes to Hitler's crimes, and all the good things Mandela did to "helping an old lady cross the street"?

Again, Mandela was not a communist in practice...while he was head of the government, government spending shrank as a % of GDP and was flat in nominal terms. That isn't the mark of a communist. There was no takeover or redistribution of property.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

SteveMT's picture

Hitler turned Germany's economy around, also.

He certainly got their economy going again prior to the war, and he instilled pride in the German people, a strong work ethic, and a strong love for their country. The German Mark was such a strong currency that it was used as an exchange even years after WWII ended. Hitler never killed anyone. He gave orders to kill and those orders were indeed carried out, similar to what our friend in Africa did when necessary.

Again, you are comparing the

Again, you are comparing the positives of Hitler to the positives of Mandela, as well as their negatives. Ridiculous.

Also, with Hitler, we have specific evidence that he was heavily involved in specific orders, that he was directly involved in planning much of what the Nazi state did. There is a direct line of responsibility and a boat-load of evidence.

With Mandela, such evidence doesn't really exist. All we know is that he called for an end to nonviolence, talked about open rebellion against the South African government, was trained in guerilla warfare, and that violence against the government happened during Mandela's time with the ANC.

You haven't responded to my questions about Jefferson. Do you support and like Thomas Jefferson?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

South Africa Then and Today

Despite Nelson Mandela misunderstanding about the true nature of Communistic ideology, he chose it as a means to and end to coalesce the poor and deprived people of South America and overcome apartheid rule. The trap of Communism's overt appeal of "freedom and equality" always translates into the destruction of capitalism, free markets and real property rights. Mandela reluctantly resorted to violence against the white rulers in the hope it would bring about fair treatment for his people (see: http://www.biography.com/people/nelson-mandela-9397017?page=4 ) but was ultimately charged with treason and imprisoned for nearly three decades.

After his release he became President of South Africa. Under his five year term, he led the way for a government funded RDP (Reconstruction and Development Program) to enhance the social welfare of the underprivileged. However the success of the program was marginal at best due to the incompetence, graft and corruption of government bureaucratic overseers (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_and_Development... ).

How far has South Africa progressed on its journey to the land of equality and opportunity?

This article written over one year ago (see: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21564846-south-africa-... ) describes the current economic state of the country as stagnating due to a continuance of political party graft and corruption.

So who was Nelson Mandela? A charismatic leader who knew little about free market capitalism, monetary policy or foreign policy entanglements but whose charm and warmth captured the hearts and minds of poor South Afrikaners by making promises of hope and change for a better America , oops, I meant South Africa. Kinda like Barack Obama, ya think?

When Obama spends 25+ years

When Obama spends 25+ years in jail attempting to achieve liberty for his people, come back and compare the two.

From what I remember of the stats, under Mandela's leadership, government spending was nearly flat. Government debt as a ratio of GDP shrank. In his 1962 trial, Mandela also professed that while both he and the communists desired freedom for black South Africans, Mandela favored an economic system based on free markets (he cited the British economic system).

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Two Different Men, Two Different Lives, Same Ideologues

My comparison between Mandela and Obama in the last paragraph centered around their failed promises of prosperity and hope for their admirers, not their political or personal histories.

Mandela was successful in ending government enforced segregation but there is still racial inequality in the country, especially in Cape Town where blacks are denied economic opportunity due to the color of their skin (see: http://www.crestedjournal.com/south-africa-does-race-segrega... )

and here (see: http://rollingout.com/politics/mandela-ended-political-apart... )

and here (see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19402353 ).

Mandela believed that government regulation and oversight could raise the level of economic well-being for the poor at the expense of free market opportunity. Unfortunately like all central government leaders, he had little understanding that what makes an economy successful is not centralized control but competition. Unemployment is at 25% and mostly in the black African demographic.

Obama has the same central government socialist mentality. Just look at his golden calf, PPACA (i.e., "Obamacare"). This program will add a significant cost to small business that will result in more layoffs of full time non-union labor employees (see: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2013/04/10/how-small... ). Cui Bono from this historic Rube Goldberg? The crony capitalistic health insurance companies that bribe the U.S. Congress!

You simply lack the facts.

You simply lack the facts. When Mandela was president, the economy actually did quite well. Positive GDP growth, shrinking government budget deficits, inflation shrank from 14% to 5%, etc. Unemployment did not get better, but that is because you had all these african blacks suddenly dumped on the market place.

In regards to Obama...well, the country is doing MUCH better now than it was in 2008. I agree with you that Obamacare is going to reverse a lot of that growth, but let us wait for that to happen.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Economic Prosperity to the Common Man = Employment

You keep referencing GDP, government debt, inflation, etc., and other macroeconomic indicators during Nelson Mandela's five year term (1994 - 1999) but the issue for poor black Africans was employment. Labor union membership, collective bargaining, wildcat strikes, etc., exacerbated higher unemployment levels.

Where Mandela's administration failed is getting education to his unskilled labor force so they could compete in the burgeoning global market place and share in the benefits of the countries modest GDP growth.

Obama's administration suffers from the same unemployment malaise. Job vacancies in 2008 were just under 4500 compared to 2013 at less than 4000 (see: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/job-vacancies ). Unemployment in 2013 is higher at 7.6% than it was in 2008 at 7.2% (see: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate ).

When politicians make speeches about economics to the electorate, people think "jobs" because that's what is important to them. Focusing on GDP or inflation, is a red herring because without opportunities to earn a living there can be no recovery.

""You keep referencing GDP,

""You keep referencing GDP, government debt, inflation, etc., and other macroeconomic indicators during Nelson Mandela's five year term (1994 - 1999) but the issue for poor black Africans was employment. Labor union membership, collective bargaining, wildcat strikes, etc., exacerbated higher unemployment levels.

Where Mandela's administration failed is getting education to his unskilled labor force so they could compete in the burgeoning global market place and share in the benefits of the countries modest GDP growth."

In just five years?

"Obama's administration suffers from the same unemployment malaise. Job vacancies in 2008 were just under 4500 compared to 2013 at less than 4000 (see: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/job-vacancies ). Unemployment in 2013 is higher at 7.6% than it was in 2008 at 7.2% (see: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate )."

Well, I think it is being very duplicitous to use those numbers. When Obama first came into office in January of 2009, the country was still in a major recession. In January, unemployment was 7.8%; it quickly went to 10% by July. I would not at all blame Obama for that sharp increase in such a short time. Unemployment is now at 7%. In comparison, Reagan inherited an unemployment rate of 6%, and took it to slightly over 5.5%.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Education Achievements Under Mandela's Administration

I am not suggesting that Mandela's administration did not attain a high percentage of educated youth in South Africa during his presidency. Vast improvements were made in the number of schools built, student attendance and graduation rates by the end of his term in 1999.

But Mandela's ANC (African National Congress) bureaucracy focused on quantity and not quality of education standards as noted in this article here (see: http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2013/12/08/mandela-...). Teachers were poorly trained and often could not meet the rigors required by the government's education policy mandates.

As far as Obama's administration, nothing I wrote regarding unemployment was deceptive in any way. The unemployment numbers are facts based upon government statistics not conjecture.

Disreagard My Double Post

See above comment.

The article is more nuanced than Mandela invented necklacing

which he did not.

The author's assertions echo those I've heard from other South Africans. DeKlerk, apartheid and brutal police/military repression were the only things keeping this post-imperial colony from collapse. Now it's a very dangerous place for everybody: Boers, Anglos, Zulus, everybody else.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

SteveMT's picture

This is called herd mentality. It's a Borg, group think.

Castro is near death. Let's prepare for his passing now. Castro is a wonderful guy who defied the U.S., survived both assassination attempts and the Bay of Pigs. He killed because he had to and has provided stability for the Cuban people. Despite everything that we did against him, he provided us with a navel base for our ships at Guantanamo Bay and a place for our terrorists at the Gitmo prison,... for a price. Let us prepare for heaping these accolades on Castro.

Terrible comparison. Castro

Terrible comparison.

Castro has a HUGE and long history of violence, civil rights abuse, and torture. He was the head of state for a communist, totalitarian regime.

Mandela had a very brief history, when he was young, of being associated with a group that did SOME violent acts, while expressing the need to end nonviolent methods. He was a mostly non-violent man who fought to his death to preserve peace. The head for five years of a Republic, Mandela was a self-styled proponent of a market economy, and while in office reduced government debt to GDP while keeping spending flat in nominal terms. He refused to take retribution against the whites who had so tortured black South Africans. When he had the power to crush those who had thrown him in jail, he instead invited them. He refused to transfer the property of white landowners (who had themselves seized the land from the black natives) to black landowners. He REVERSED the policies of the apartheid government that violated civil liberties and human decency.

Think about libertarian hero Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson had a long, long history of calling for violence. He had many faults, including being a racist and a slaveholder who raped his slaves. He had a partiality towards the French and sought to tie American politics to the politics of France. He was a major leader of a VIOLENT revolution that lead to the deaths of countless people. Yet, at the same time, he was an outspoken champion of liberty, freedom, and democracy. He revolutionarily decried monarchies, and was a significant force behind the modern Republic. He was a huge contributor to one of the greatest documents of all time. He was a pioneer of liberal thought. Unlike many at the time, he was a critic of blind religious faith, of anti-semitism, and xenophobia. He banned the slave trade and showed benevolence towards Native Americas. He was a researcher, scientist, and a philanthropist who was also the head of a Republic for eight years; really the first president to show that the peaceful transition of political power was possible. During his time, the country grew in physical size and power.

Quite frankly, the positives of Jefferson and Mandela look really similar; both have the crowning achievement of bringing down an oppressive regime and of bringing democracy to their peoples. And, I would argue that Jefferson's flaws, which he maintained throughout his life, were far worse than Mandela's. Yet Jefferson is looked on as a hero, while Mandela is seen as a vile communist thug?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

SteveMT's picture

Please provide accurate and verifiable links for these charges.

Where did I write that Castro is comparable to Mandela? You are quick to jump to conclusions and to attack, Dr.

I was referring to group-think, can-do-no-wrong, jump-on-the-bandwagon, herd mentality. Castro is old and may be the next one to go south, which is why I wrote this comment. We should prepare for the praises that will made about him also. Calm down, doc.

Who brought up Castro? Oh yeah, that's right. You did.

This is a thread about Mandela, so why did you bring up Castro? But now you're accusing OTHER people of comparing the two? Schizophrenic much?

This video was good...

I was able to share this on facebook, as he explains things so well; and in a considerate way. Anyone with a conscience can't support Mandela after watching it IMO

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -- James Madison

So, think about it if it were

So, think about it if it were you.

US has been taken over by China. Their leaders instantly declare all non-Chinese as second-class citizens. They take away their right to travel, their right o freedom, etc. All their property is seized or essentially seized.

Are you saying you WOULDN'T resort to violence? Yes, Mandela resorted to violence when he was young...and then when he came into power, he FORGAVE. When whites had the power to crush blacks, they did it unforgivingly. When Mandela had the power to crush whites, he stayed his hand. I doubt many of you would do the same! The Tea Partiers are Republicans who are always talking about taking out their guns because their light bulbs are being taken away, wouldn't resort to violence if the country was taken over?

Then, imagine that no other country wants to give the rebellion aid. Except, say North Korea and Cuba. No one else. Remember, Reagan refused Mandela aid, and even refused to condemn apartheid. Are you saying you wouldn't ally with North Korea and Cuba? They are the only ones willing to help; the only ones willing to supply you with arms and weapons. In that situation, you take what you can get.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

dupe

meant to reply to your comment below...

SteveMT's picture

Purposefully blowing-up women and children is not "violence."

Bombing churches and public facilities is not "violence." These acts were not directed against a corrupt government. They were aimed at civilians. He pleaded guilty to 156 counts of terrorism, and he is a lawyer. He did not attempt to justify his actions in court.

All I am saying, is that

All I am saying, is that around here, there is extreme sympathy towards the actions of Al Quaeda terrorists who attack our troops and their civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as Palestinians who attack indiscrimanantly in Israel.

It isn't like the South African apartheid government was only committing crimes against the leaders of the rebellion....

If you thought such a tactic would be effective in earning your freedom, would you not do it?

By the way, that 156 doesn't seem to have any proof behind it. It is a number that has been repeated by the public with no real reference or source...it is common that acts done by terrorist organizations between 62 and 90, when Mandela was in prison, are simply attributed to behind "signed off" by Mandela, truth be damned.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a