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Libertarians and their abortion problem

How selfish are we to draw a line as to when life begins or when it is appropriate to abort a life? Most abortions are done because of burden. It is a burden when the mom or dad are not ready for various reasons. It is a burden when it is not planned. It is a burden when other methods of birth control fail. And yes, it is even a burden when it is a forced insemination.

You call yourselves freedom fighters. You come here to spout all your knowledge about Liberty. Tell me something...is it not Liberty for all? Why is a life in the womb...the most defenseless of all...not entitled to Liberty?

A wise man once said "how can we protect liberty if we can't protect life?"

If libertarians won't defend all life than I want no part of it.



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Written from a male viewpoint.

The theory that an embryo is trespassing is beyond belief! Considering how much careful preparation goes into preparing the right environment for the embryo to stay, and the intimate way an embryo is formed (excepting rape), to call an unplanned or inconvenient pregnancy "trespass" is a load of progressive Bull!!!
A sick term to make women feel justified to terminate.
I would love to see the look on your face, if one night, you are snuggled down, in bed, at a friends place, because they had INVITED you to stay, and next minute, the door bursts open, you are surrounded by armed police, forcefully ejected, and informed you were trespassing. Would you be confused?
An embryo is something that develops inside a woman's body, under special conditions, it doesn't crawl in and invade, unasked, and uninvited.

Obvious but not.

I don't believe in telling others what to do. I also don't like violence. So what to do about abortion.

When people advocate for abortion, I generally think "I wonder if they have ever seen an abortion. Do they know how brutal and psychologically damaging it is." But when an individual woman is pregnant against her will, and wants to terminate it, I think that is her right. A woman is not obligated to keep her baby, giving birth is not an obligation, its an act of love.

It's complicated. It's not going to be resolved through protesters and hate, it's going to be resolved with compassion. If a teen mother knew that her baby would be adopted by loving parents maybe she would be more willing to go through the pregnancy. If poor women with little money had access to healthcare, maybe it wouldn't be so scary. Terrifying. Panic Attack. Unintended Pregnancy is like the worst STD. The richest nation in the world has the 37th best healthcare. The AHCA is an abomination, but public healthcare wouldn't be so bad, and would probably reduce abortion rates. I'm thinking about moving to Canada.

******************
"To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."

I was 17 when I had my son.

I was 17 when I had my son. My parents were also going through a divorce at the time. I did just fine. It wasn't easy. I cried a lot. I worked hard. I struggled. I raised him single for over half his life. My son is now 15 and one of the sharpest kids I know. My husband adopted him after we got married. And now I found out I am unable to carry another full term. He is my miracle. To think I could have disposed him.

Giving birth is a natural function.

As normal as any other. Not to be feared.

This is one of those topics

This is one of those topics you will never achieve agreement on.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

What if this was a liberal

What if this was a liberal posting this to cause division amongst the freedom warrior crowd, cause that is all they got?

What if they can't accept freedom and freedom of choice or those that respect freedom of choice, that of individuals, that of the Libertarian mindset.

What if it's a sad attempt to try to get loose stragglers in the GOP line, to further the 2 party failure we obviously see?

Abortion, like gay marriage, are tactics anymore. Only fools fall for it anymore. I'd expect Hillary's crowd to. But I would expect the ignorant right to as well.

This is why I would never want to fall for either of their two failed parties.

Life's for my own to live my own way. Don't worry, I'll take care of my responsibilities one way or another. I don't need government interfering in those responsibilities either.

Be Your Own Media!!!

I don't agree. That child has

I don't agree. That child has it's own DNA, It's own finger prints. Abortion should not be compared to Gay marriage.

I am with you

On another forum, some woman was saying a woman has the right to do whatever she wants with her body (meaning abortion).

So she assumes that the fetus is part of her, not another individual. So I asked if it would be okay to kill the baby and remove it 2 minutes before birth - just like removing a tumor? Somehow she didn't like that idea.

And as Dr. Paul has said, he was in big trouble if he harmed the fetus. Lawsuits, etc.

So which is it? Is it a separate life or not?

And if it is a life, why would it not have rights?

Having said that, I would have no problem if my daughter was raped, to have a pregnancy prevented immediately, before implantation.

Often, those who think...

...women should be able to do whatever they want with their "uterus, etc.", are often the first people (liberals, feminists) to go after men for child support, etc...

If a woman can do whatever she wants with her body, her uterus, whatever, then why can't a man do whatever he wants with his penis, his body?
Why I can't I go around knocking girls up, and then say "Hey, it's my penis, I can put it where I want. Where do you get off making a law saying I made a baby, I have to take care of it? It's my penis! Men's rights! Hands off my penis, you lousy dem-bags!"....?

No one, man or woman has the right to kill another human, or avoid their natural & lawful responsibilities because they may be a "burden", i.e. cost money, effort, time, etc., etc., etc...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

There is the Plan B. This is

There is the Plan B. This is a very good option.

I consider myself a pro-life

I consider myself a pro-life libertarian, who only supports abortion in the risk of life to the mother. And it is for the very reason that it is another life that has rights as well as the mother. From what I have seen in libertarian circles for me just rough estimate it is about 30% pro-life, 70% pro-choice so we are outnumbered in the libertarian areas but in no way can pro-choice people claim that you have to be such in order to be a libertarian. As libertarianism does not allow you to murder someone just because you want to, or it might burden you etc.

Libertarianism allows you free choice as long as it doesn't harm another individual, pro-life side says the child in the womb is another individual, where pro-choice side argues it isn't another individual.

I don't know the numbers

I know there are many pro-life people on this web site.

I understand why you wrote this post

It was in response to 2 individuals and a superficial faux-philosophical position they held on the wonderful post about the abortion survivor.

They do not speak for libertarians. I am a libertarian. please dont assume that just because those guys are out there making points about abortion, they represent the entire movement and its philosophy.

As I was writing this, I discovered that you responded to my post on that very thread.

I guess i have said my piece.

Séamusín

Thank you for your response.

Thank you for your response. You are one of only a few who get it. Most libertarians I know say it is a state issue. And believe it or not....that was not the first time I've heard a libertarian spout the "evictionism" bs.

Thank you for speaking up.

Absolutely, and i promise i am not alone

Also, I had written a post here two weeks ago on the very subject.

I would very much like for you to read it. It describes more fully my position on what I believe we should do about it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/306792/an-open-letter-about-the-lib...

Séamusín