31 votes

Zionism...

It seems there's a large amount of confusion about the therm "Zionism" so I thought maybe we could have a calm discussion about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

"Zionism ... is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that, ... came to support its creation in the territory defined as the Land of Israel."

Ok, so if someone is ANTI-Zionist, it means they are against the "nationalism" of Jews in the geographical area now called "Israel". Does it mean that someone who is opposed to Zionism is someone who wants to see all Jews dead?? No (although such people exist). There are actually many Jews themselves who are opposed to Zionism. I met some of these rabbis during the Ron Paul campaign: http://www.truetorahjews.org/. Guess you can't try to label them with being Jew haters (well, you could, but you would look like a fool).

If someone is pro-Zionist that means they are for the application of force being used to remove others from this geographical area to make room for these others who you want to move in there. Historically this has already taken place and the new arrivals have already been placed in that area and as one would expect, it has caused a great deal of hard feelings between those who were there and the newcomers (who woulda thunk it?)

Ok, it's true that I'm against the forceful expulsion of these dwellers by people who did not historically live there in recent history so I can be accurately labeled an "anti-Zionist" but I am not a Jew hater. I am not a hater of any biological group of people. I do find it strange how some groups of people will express hatred for me for taking such a stance against violently expelling people from their homes so that others can live there... Doesn't seem like the "Christian" thing to do to me.

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deacon's picture

Some of what you typed

I am aware of,but not all of it...so thanks for the info
To me,what doesn't make sense,is being confronted with truth
and then deny it
I have found out that people will cling to lies no matter how blatant they are
1) their clergy told them something different
2)It doesn't line up with church doctrine
3) someone told them something different

It has been said here on many occasions,that the NWO puts into print what they are going to do,or have done.
The bible is the same way..the story of tammuz..reincarnate into an egg laying rabbit
lent..eating ham on easter..christmas
D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Satan is not an angel, he is an intergalactic warlord

That is what precludes all things and brings me to this main point. Our history has been distorted by deliberate, undeniable lies.

http://nesaranews.blogspot.jp/2013/12/the-intergalactic-warl...

Satan the fallen angel, also uses label of Lucifer which stands for Son of the Morning. This is written in doctrine and even codified in the Bible. We take this to mean that Satan cannot harm us except through spirit, as he is a spiritual body. But this is not true, the Book of Enoch confirms what Satan actually is. Satan is an intergalactic warlord. He is a trans-dimensional entity of Hell, who happens to have traversed the very system of our universe and galaxy. This is how Satan has been able to subdue, destroy and deceive so many millions of people on Earth.

Satan, believes that his Kingdom is complete and he stands unopposed. He professes to the people that if you study the word of God, you will never be harmed by him and he will be kept at bay but you must not go on the offensive. You must not fight him or oppose him, because he is invincible and will destroy you. Only a God like Michael the Archangel can oppose Satan and not wind up destroyed or possessed. The teaching in the Churches is therefore, only reading your Bible will save you; and never utter his name in public. This is how he corrupted modern Churches, to make the many be meek and passive. It is taught right there in the Bible, to turn the other cheek and bless Israel for they will bless you back.

It is voiced right there in the Bible, to never utter new tongues for only God can. It is voiced right here that all Churches will make way for the man of Sin, for the Anti-Christ will return to Jerusalem and deceive the world for 7 years in which all unbelievers will be put to death who do not accept the sign to buy, sell or trade. It is stated the lands will be filled with fire and blood, with massive quakes in all parts of the world because all man are punished for sin. These remarks of hostility are not the words of the living God, Jehovah as the Heavenly Host. They cannot be, because God is a God of love rather than destruction.

Thus it is clear that Marduk, the angel of Satan, must have wrote those verses. Because only a fallen angel, could desire the world to believe that Jesus was the Anti-Christ. And only a demon like that, would demand all Christians believe our world will be ravaged by fires and famine sparing few. Only a true demon, would say Jerusalem will be raised to be King of the Earth while ignoring the tribulation and edict of New Jerusalem. Enoch spoke a new Jerusalem, thus either Enoch is a liar (alongside his angels) or: the Bible told some true lies due to Marduk's influence. Therefore, God's begotten Son Jesus; has been maligned as being the Anti-Christ. As a result of the Bible's startling words, Moroni, Judah and all their followers including Helamen are now labeled false prophets.

Christians may not be forgiven, because the repentance process is revoked and in the End of Days massive famines will reign. Also don't oppose Satan, only God can succeed. These are the type of evil and malign teachings dispersed throughout the Bible's final passages, which goes only to prove there is but one true Church on the face of the Earth. And that Latter Day Church, the one able to see through Warlord Satan's many deceptions whether light/dark...is to be persecuted! This would keep man from the truth of Jesus, including how there is an atonement process to forgive man of all sin. I call it the final deception. The Bible's last chapters make it very clear these Churches are under an evil veil, kept blind from Jerusalem's true colors and nature of God's words.

The Holy Bible has quite a few huge mistranslations which further proves its final passages must be work of the real Anti Christ, the fallen angel Marduk. This shows why many lie deceived by Satan, unable to grasp the full truth of what Joseph Smith and others witnessed. How it was told that with the Holy Ghost you can subdue the warlord Satan, which exposes truth about this cabal who wrote all rules for modern Churches. By putting on the Armor, you cut away all light and darkness that reveals the last true Church. This must be why it is the latter days, where due to men like Romney the Latter Day gospel will be ambushed and accused by many. Yet, this is because Satan wants none to know there is one true Church on Earth. So the faithful are setup.

We can only defeat the intergalactic warlord, Satan, through opposing him directly by restoring the celestial covenant. Otherwise every Church will fall and he will succeed, due to the state of Israel. However doctrine says Israel not only transgressed, it became the evil abomination against all gentiles and tongues. Jesus then made it very clear that all of Jerusalem is judged, to include the New Jerusalem we see in America. That if we heed his words, the scales will fall from our eyes and planetary warlord Satan will be destroyed. Then the Bible will be restored to its fullness, with the Book of Enoch. Yet this only occurs, if the Church succeeds in removing Satan's deceptions from leaders of every gospel. And then in baptism, that is the only time we win.

The masses believe only the Bible, they never knew there is more to this fight that can lead to eternal life. They never learned there really is celestial bodies, and have never known this whole planet did get taken over by Satan through deceptions of Israel. There is nowhere to learn, how these Globalists corrupted each Bible by deleting the Book of Enoch. If it was known, they would know who did 9-11. For even God spoke, that if known, the plans of the devil would never succeed to ensnare all kindred tongues and people. For if any one knew their soul can be saved, and be bestowed higher powers to fight back...they would accept it.

deacon's picture

we are on the same wavelength

concerning satan,but taken a step further,to me,them so called angels
were created the same way,so they would be the same
These are not bound to the laws we cal reality,but I do not think
people are as bound as they think to this world
When jesus cast them demons into them pigs,and the pigs drowned in the water,the only think that died was them pigs
I do no think them demons that were cast out left here,I think they still run the show,and inhabit vessels (people),most are willing participants
in this symbiotic relationship
The church doctrines and practices give them away as to their agendas.Their own practice of paganism is a direct testimony against them,Now if their is anything resembling truth in the bibles,then it is done on purpose
and it does have consequences
But if the bible is a fable used to ensnare the just,then no one has to be atoned for sins
thanks for the input

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

This again is why, the afflicted need to read the Bible

The Holy Bible itself confirms the nature of spiritual blindness in the final days. For Enoch himself repeats the very words about the Judgment and why man lay deceived. A hundred forty four thousand: Book of Mormon.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%207&v...
http://nesaranews.blogspot.com

As you can see, it spells it out bluntly. 144,000 who "take" a mark they being mostly the Latter Day Saints. It goes without question that our enemies from all flocks, will persecute the true Christians who reject pagan rituals and worship in the end times. So it goes without saying that our prophet was right, the Bible has some mistranslations in order to lead the confused to persecute the true Church. By persecuting Christ, Jerusalem can prolong the spiritual wickedness for one more finale. There is definitely only one Church, I repeat ONE Church who outlaws abortion, drinking of alcohol or anything profane. And the Prophets refuse to even consider engaging in those practices.

And I think it is very clear by now which Church I speak of, that you and I are adamantly aware of. It sure isn't the Baptists.
http://www.fuw.ch/article/we-live-in-a-hall-of-mirrors/

deacon's picture

Why?

Did you provide a link to a king james bible?
This is where most of the paganism started from.

I have talked to witnesses here,they claim the 144 thousand
are witnesses going to heaven...But there are more than 144 thousand witnesses
Where in the bible,does it state to outlaw/ban or deny alcohol?
Jesus turned water into wine...the bible records some of the prophets as drunkards,one getting so drunk,he slept with both of his daughters (the god,in the bible didn't claim that was a sin)
Again,I will never take ahold of any man made religion,but will look for the real truth
In my minds eye,any church.people or religious org use the king james bible,the they all err,and are willfully leading people astray.
I have started to read the book of enoch,intriguing to say the least
I also bought the MISSING BOOKS OF THE BIBLE
Love this chat we are having...keep up the great work...but you aren't so simple :)

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Trinity in New Testement

No Lord Jesus Christ asks you to follow him, he does not demand it.. free will... you have free will.. Either Jesus is the way or not. Either you follow Jesus or not. It's your choice.

Jesus is Not God Allmighty, or The Holy Spirit, but a man OF God.

The video you posted there

The video you posted there advocates the opposite of what you seem to be saying with the words of your comment.

The Trinity?

How is the video of the Trinity the opposite of what I posted?

"Jesus is Not God

"Jesus is Not God Allmighty... but a man OF God." - your words

+ The narrator of the video claims that Jesus IS God Almighty.

= If that is not "opposite" then I don't know what is.

The video is a hardcore pro-trinity presentation. Did you watch it?

Paul Nison is not a Trinitarian. Are you?

I thought you had cut loose from the Nicene Creed. Perhaps not.

I remain confused regarding the intent of your comment.

Yes, I saw the vid

And I think the vid does a good job presenting the Trinity.

I am catholic; However, Since August I've been seeing a Messianic Rabbi. First because I want to learn Hebrew, and second, because I feel a calling.

Jesus is many things to many people, God being one, and I don't have a problem with it.

I don't know if this is important to you, but religion is not my interest in Israel.

Whew! sure am glad it's no longer 325 A.D. ;)

Your interest in Israel is not my concern in making sense of your comment regarding [or perhaps not regarding] the Trinity.

I also "think the vid does a good job presenting the Trinity".

It does a much better job presenting the Trinity than I could ever imagine doing myself, despite the fact that I have extensively studied Trinitarian theology.

However, I'm not Catholic, nor am I an adherent to triunal concepts of God that resemble Roman Catholic Trinitarianism. Nor Have I ever run across any Messianic Rabbis who ever taught anything resembling Trinitarian belief. I am aware of your participation with a Messianic Rabbi, and the words in the body of your comment align well with what I am already familiar of Messianic Judaism, but the comment's heading and video stick out like sore thumbs. Not only does the video have nothing to do in support of the words in your comment, but the video CONTRADICTS the words you wrote in your comment.

Hey, tell you what, I'm just going to lighten up and pretend you meant to write that Jesus is Not The Father. :D

LOL.. now you remind me of my brother

I'm having kinda of a dejavu moment.. I became a Catholic three years ago (baptized as a child and wanted to know what is was all about.. so emerged myself.. but I am far not a scholar,, did not study as you did.

So when my brother (who no longer talks to me because I confirmed Catholic) went off on me when I called the pastor "Father".. I went to the pastor and asked him about it and he gave an answer simular to this: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father

as you at times, my sister

I bet you got along better with that pastor than you did your brother. The pastor was kind to speak to you with such an answer. The pastor knows a loving God. Your brother yet lives in fear [Jesus wept]. Theology fascinates me, but that's about all I can say for it. It has never directly helped me find my way. For me it's sorta like the study of Physics, endlessly fascinating and often quite a diversion from reality.

I was raised Protestant but still found myself faced with recitation of the Nicene Creed in my various protestant denominations [I no longer recite it]. I don't "believe" it per se, but I admit to sometimes engaging variations of its points as I walk through life and navigate whatever the hell is going on here.

I've attended many Catholic masses as well. I've felt more at home at some of those masses than many of the Protestant services as I recall many evangelical pastors leading me in prayer to Jesus. I'm sorry but from what I've read of his story, he taught me to pray to my Father, as he did/does. I don't recall Jesus ever praying to himself. :D

Actually ((((John Robb))))

The pastor was from India and he was a very intelligent man.. deep.. He was ordained by Pope John Paul, with Mother Teresa sitting behind him with her feel on his feet. So he says, "I had a saint in front of me and a saint behind me so I knew I was where I was supposed to be."

He had a wonderful sense of humour, and I liked him the year I knew him. Then we got a new Pastor.. young guy, just out of playing football for Notre Dame.. real nice guy, but not very deep. He was funny.. easy to like, but I like deep. He was there for a little over a year, And then we had gotten another new pastor.. Philipino.. another very nice man.. but I didn't feel any connection.. and I love Philipinos.. Love the food.. the music.. I think I would be happy in the Philipines (I am very happy where I live.. just saying I really like Philipinos).. but this guy,.. no connection.. and I was just starting to study Israel..

Wouldn't you know.. what had been an empty store front for years suddenly is flying the American flag and the flag of Israel.. and I think, "WOW,, that's ballsy!" I like that.. It's on the North end of Main street so I have to pass it to go into town. Where I was getting nothing out of the new pastor.. that flag of Israel was blowing my mind.. I had to meet these brave people.

Come to find out, the owner of the building gave them the place free of charge.. and we hit it off.. they are deep and brave. yet, very humble.. very kind, generous with their time and information.. so.. I'm praying to our Father, who art in Heaven, on what to do..

SO.. something else came to my mind about the "Father" issue.. I began going to Church when I lost my parents.. and I think the Church has a long history of caring for orphans, people who have no family.. so "Father" was a way to have a family when you didn't have a family.

And another thought occurs to me.. The Lord's Prayer

Our Father, who art is Heaven.... Surely Our Father is Jesus, no?

"yet, very humble.. very kind"

I enjoy your stories.

"Our Father, who art is Heaven.... Surely Our Father is Jesus, no?"

Hmm... I'm not really hung up on it, but Jesus said those words. Was he instructing us in how to pray to him, or was he instructing by example, leading us in prayer to his/our Father? I clearly opt for the latter. Elsewhere in the gospels he prays to his Father. If I am to do as he did/does, then I am to pray to his/my/our Father. Personally, I don't see Jesus as the Father. I suppose I agree with that Trinity video in that respect. I certainly don't disapprove of praying to Jesus, as the general thrust of all prayer is to humble oneself in reaching out to that which is greater. I choose to do it as Jesus did/does.

I realize that at some point he said "I and the Father are one", but that was not in the context of instructing us in prayer.

Not everyone that holds that perspective is as intense about it as I though. I confess to having a rather gnostic perspective on the teachings from the apostle Paul. I don't interpret Paul as teaching merely how to follow or imitate Christ, and for heaven's sake not how to be "Christ-like" [that would be a sin from the get-go], but to BE Christ. Some consider me a blaspheming freak, but hey, to each his own. ;D

To each their own....

In my RCIA class, the instructor told us that the Catholic Church accepts ALL baptisms. As you know, I was baptised as an infant, but my parents were not Catholic or Christian, so I had no background.. my father was an Objectivist and held that baptism against me (my Mother had me baptized under the influence of my God Mother, when my father had a long tour at sea, so he had no imput and resented it my whole life).

The idea I get from the apostle Paul is to be Christ like. Maybe we should be grateful he didn't ask us to be like Mary?

spiritual transvestite - there I go freakishly blaspheming again

I had a scattered background of spiritual teaching myself, different from yours but somewhat scattered as yours. For example, my parents flirted with a few local churches when I was a child, but I wasn't baptized until I was 13 at my own request.

As I've mentioned as well to you in long ago posts, I actually have a more similar past to yours in regard to politics, having involved myself with the Libertarian Party back in the 1980s, dabbled in similar off-the-beaten-path politics through the 1990s, and back into the GOP of late. That's a side note, back to religion...

The Catholic/tract link you gave me a few comments back hits on a principle that touches a recent topic in our last two comments. The tract used the rationale of earthly protocol matching spiritual protocol as being natural and beneficial that we may better understand and not be confused [that we not let the spiritual fall exclusively into the abstract], such as in the use of the term "father". This is how the term "Christ-like" falls short for me, misses the mark. Paul was a teacher. I've been a student of other teachers throughout my life. For example, a teacher of medicine has no intention of my becoming "Doctor-like". His intention is to teach me to BE a Doctor.

As humorous as your reference to Mary was initially, it continues to be a bit funnier as it becomes ironic upon pondering more deeply. Aside from the consideration of difference in gender [for me]. Mary [Magdalene] appears to me as a star pupil of Jesus. Of course you probably meant Mother Mary, but even there we can be as she, as she is possibly immaculate inspiration for us to raise our children as God's children.

I was Mr. Mom, a stay-at-home dad, in the role of traditional housewife when my children were small. As such I tapped affinity with Mary. I suppose that makes me a spiritual transvestite of sorts. :D

your post evoked several thoughts

About your choice to be baptised at 13: I was told by a "Spiritual Living" reverand that I had been, "Spiritually raped as an infant".

I thought that was an interesting perspective.. but that's not how I feel about it. Had it not been for that baptism I would have never gone to the Church, and I'm glad I did. It's a good foundation, the Catechism, is understanding what it's all about.

And Mary, who was wholey human, This is what I was refering:

To be like Mary and without sin.. that would be .. well for me, that's impossible. Thank God I have a prayer or two.

I am thinking... that you might have been a bad Girl.

therefore,
I thus pontificate.
that you MIGHT need your Butt spanked.

not my butt you spankin!

deacon's picture

Is that you?

I had no idea,and here i pictured a tatted thin lady,with a surf board across her back :)
Butt dam girl shake that thang.....hehehehe

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

No, that's not me

I just figured when it comes to spanking.. well.. I wouldn't even try on the lovely dancer in that vid :)

what! I have friends in the NSA,

how DARE you defile my precious!

deacon's picture

bad girls?

here i thought they just wanted to have fun

what was I thinking?

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

you only like Blondes.

I know your type all too well.
;)

are you flirtin with my best Girlfriend?

this is who "The Granger" is to me..
and in my minds eye.

peace.

I like crow

I lIke bad Girls...

Aww you got me

Bravo!

why, do you suppose... is that SO hard for others to figure out?
it just seems eminent to me.