42 votes

I'm not voting anymore

I have been a libertarian for about two years now. I was introduced to libertarian thought by Ron Paul's 2012 campaign. After that whole debacle, I began to consider who I would vote for in 2016 when the time came. Since the 2012 elections, however, I have been doing a lot of thought about my philosophy. I have really delved into libertarian ideas such as the non-aggression principle, and my outlook on voting has completely changed. I will no longer be voting.

I believe there can be no moral justification for government. If we accept that people should never use violence except in cases of self-defense, then we can no longer justify government. Government requires violence to exist. Taxation is theft, etc. If the system you support does NOT require violence, then it is not government. Government is by definition violent.

Can we move past the idea that reforming our government could somehow work, or is even the morally right thing to do? It's a delusion.

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Check On Government Power is a Myth

The people are unable to hold government accountable because the only non-violent means to do so (voting) has been perverted by deception and outright fraud. That is why I encourage people to not participate in the federal electoral system.

Dr. Paul's service to his district was commendable as noted by his 12 terms in Congress. He objected to many of the revenue bills passed in the House of Representatives but was not able to sway many of his peers. Why? Because he is a man of principle and would not bargain away or compromise his ethics.

Justin Amash's nascent service to his district in Michigan is also noteworthy with respect to fiscal responsibility and adherence to the Constitution but so far his 27 legislative proposals have gone nowhere (see: http://beta.congress.gov/member/justin-amash/2029?pageSize=250&pageSort=asc&q={%22sponsorship%22%3A%22Sponsored+Legislation%22}).

What does that tell us? It says the vast majority of congressional officials practice a "flexible" code of conduct whose underlying purpose is to serve their own political careers more than what is good for the country. Just as they are bribed by corporate campaign contributions, so do they bribe ignorant American people. Legislation such as raising the minimum wage only makes employment opportunity worse by manipulating the free market at the expense of economic competition. These career politicians make jingoistic speeches that appeal to the basal instincts of the citizenry but do little to create incentives to grow the economy or respect individual freedoms.

The repeal on the assault weapons ban is a temporary reprieve at the federal level because Washington will embrace any excuse to limit the American people from protecting themselves with firearms from an abusive government. Senator Dianne Feinstein and other Marxists will not relent on this issue.

However this is not preventing the States from enacting restrictive laws such as New York State's SAFE Act (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_SAFE_Act ) that bans an ammunition magazine from being loaded with no more than seven cartridges despite the overwhelming opposition by various groups within the state.

What good is it to own an assault weapon if the government makes it difficult to use it as designed whether by interfering with ammunition supplies as stated in my first post or by limiting the number of shells in a magazine?

Remember the "Too Big to Fail" 700 billion dollar TARP program in 2008? Here the Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson tell the American people the reckless large commercial banks had to be "rescued" with taxpayer money or the economy would crash. What he hid was the fact that Wall Street owns the central government as implied by Neil Barofsky, Inspector General of TARP here (see: http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/224829-neil-barofsky-washin... ). Congressmen received thousands of emails, phone calls, etc. demanding the central government not bail out the banks but did they listen? NO!

Just like the idiom, "A leopard cannot change its spots" government cannot be checked because it has descended too far down into the bowels of immoral turpitude.

So now to answer your question, "How can we stop or slow down federal tyranny without anyone keeping our government in check?" My answer to you is; we can't within the current system. It must be dissolved by letting it die.

Let's pretend the government is a big wild animal ok.

It sounds like your saying don't feed it and it will eventually die right? Also thank you for finally giving an answer, you could of saved yourself the lecture because I totally get the corruption, we agree on that. I see the not feeding part as helpful of course, but ignoring it, is that effective at the rate of tyrannical growth our country is experiencing and has experienced in the past, I certainly question that. I totally respect your perspective, but I see the beast growing bigger by ignoring it, until the day it catches you around a corner and cages you. If we can agree that it is good to educate liberty, then why is it bad to use a political platform to do so? I said in my last reply that I advocate liberty in all areas, just swing the bat. I do challenge your 'let it die' answer right now because our government is bigger than it ever has been and it seems like it might take a while for it to reach it's last breath, and who's to say we will prevail with getting the majority to ignore it and take its' food away? If we get that wrong, how do change our strategy from a cage? I say stand up and speak out in all areas, even politics, because it's not certain we can convince everyone to ignore the tyrannical government before they have us all animalized and jailed in concentration camps. So why take that chance, why not swing the liberty bat every way possible. Please don't lecture me on the corruption of TARP or our government, we agree on that, we just disagree about the importance of trying to keep it check. I also think it's easier to convince low information Americans that want a better economy to obey the Constitution rather than abolish it, that's just my opinion. I'm looking for efficiency in this liberty movement, and right now I think we need this message to spread in as many areas as possible, and yes we can agree Ron Paul was an exception and he did a lot of good, so let's get some more Ron Pauls and infiltrate more liberty, again my opinion. I disagree with your method for more success in the freedom movement currently, but I appreciate your comments.

Also, If you do want to reply back, you don't need to go over everything you already have, just concentrate your thoughts on what I'm asking with the question marks (?). Thanks, and please understand I'm only looking for what is more effective, like a marketing plan, always analyzing the innovation in messaging. If you agree that Ron Paul did a lot of good and is an exception amongst politicians, then why can't someone else also have the same opportunity to be another exception and spread the message of liberty even further?

kind people rock

Okay as Requested, I'll Just Respond to Your Questions (?)

Question 1: "It sounds like your saying don't feed it and it will eventually die right?"

Answer 1: Yes, don't feed it (vote in federal elections) and it will die.

Question 2: "If we can agree that it is good to educate liberty, then why is it bad to use a political platform to do so?"

Answer 2: Politics by definition is the governance and administration of a people. Its very nature requires the authoritative body to exercise control by coercion, deception and legalized theft of wealth under the pretense of providing general welfare for the majority who desire it. At the national level it does not require a rigorous discipline of knowledge, experience or skill in various aspects of society (e.g., economics, business, health, education, foreign policy, etc.). What brings success to an incumbent or a challenger is to make convincing promises to "serve the people". But in order to get re-elected or elected the aspiring public servant must submit to the whim of the real power in Washington; the duopolistic political party system and the lobbyist syndicate. The party system is the root cause of the malevolency in government because in order to exist it has to betray the public's trust in favor of the wealthy lobbyists who fund campaigns in exchange for special status. Political party ideology has infiltrated every function of government including the federal judiciary which is supposed to be a check on Washington abuse but sadly has capitulated to the tentacles of money and influence as well.

Question 3: "I do challenge your 'let it die' answer right now because our government is bigger than it ever has been and it seems like it might take a while for it to reach it's last breath, and who's to say we will prevail with getting the majority to ignore it and take its' food away?"

Answer 3: As you wrote, government is bigger than ever and it will take a while to reach its last breath. Why? Because people believe they can only "change it" by taking part in their contrived rules that promulgate its perversity such as joining and engaging with a political party. Government is like a casino that is all shine and glitter, enticing the public to trust them and invest their money (taxes) in the hope it will return a greater benefit (general welfare). But have we been getting our monies worth? Are our freedoms protected and liberties secured? No, we are losing our wealth, our privacy and our individual independence because we bought into the propaganda and the lies. Let's stop doing that.

Question 4: "If we get that wrong, how do change our strategy from a cage?"

Answer 4: We only become caged when we continue to elect them in positions of power, so don't vote for them.

Question 5: "If you agree that Ron Paul did a lot of good and is an exception amongst politicians, then why can't someone else also have the same opportunity to be another exception and spread the message of liberty even further?"

Answer 5: As I have written before, we can elect a dozen or more ethical representatives such as Dr. Paul or Justin Amash in the hopes some sort of awakening of the national conscience will occur. But as long as the majority of citizens continue to have their hands out for the largess of social programs that are unaffordable, nothing will change. The people have no stamina for fiscal discipline because they see the wealthy as the "cash cow" that will fund socialism in perpetuity.

As Margaret Thatcher, former British Prime Minister said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." And that is where America is headed as long as the people continue to participate in the federal electoral system.

Appreciate your comments.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think if we slow tyranny down that can also be helpful for freedom. Thanks for your comments, again lecturing on the government itself being the problem is something I already understand, but I question the long history of apathetic folks who never checked anything as the problem, which in my opinion has gotten the tyranny to this size. Also, it's very likely if you are enslaved to fiat currency, you are very likely to be caged for not giving the beast it's share unfortunately right now. Not saying being caged is not a message itself that will have inflection on those who know the NOW victim of oppression, just trying every way possible to spread the message. I think we both understand one another, and I appreciate you comments, peace to you, happy holidays!

kind people rock

I second that notion!

... the vote is rigged.


"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

That's cause I rig it

with you in mind.

It simply amazes me that you have not been banned

from the DP. Granger, you are perhaps one of the most despicable members on this site. Every time I see one of your posts it makes me vomit a little in the back of my throat. If there was ever anyone EVER that deserved to have their account deleted it would be you. It appears that you only have two brain cells left, and both of those are rolling around in your head like BB's in a boxcar. I sincerely believe that you have been a troll and a disruptor on this site from day one. There is nothing that you have ever posted on the DP that hasn't made me cringe. You make no sense, ever. You totally lack logic. You use your head for nothing but a hat rack. What piece of work. I never thought that I would ever personally attack anyone on the DP. But after much thought, I decided to make a rare exception in your case. Even after being the most down-voted member on this site, you still don't get it. Nobody gives a crap about what you think. Why? Because you are are incapable of rational thought.

I once suggested that you take a trip to your beloved Israel and stay there for a few months to see if they love you as much as you love them. Honestly, you really need to make the trip and get a dose of reality.

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”― Henry David Thoreau

More Power to me!!!

THANK YOU for NOT voting, I appreciate ALL the power I can get at elections!!! And don't blame me for the way I make your life hell. I show up. I get power. You rather cower with excuses.

Folks like you deserve to be RULED and CONTROLLED by people like me.


Power to me.

deacon's picture

PEOPLE like me?

So,you aren't people like the greater of who are here at the DP?
You know,want freedom,less gov,lower taxes ect ect?
you want power and all to yourself,and just for you?
And we deserve to be ruled and controlled by people like you?
Seriously,is this what the gov is set for?
Your true colors are showing,now aren't they?
When freedom loving people vote,we get what the many want anyways...right?
So what exactly would not voting do for us? We get nothing but the bills And you want to be a ruler with all the power? great,I won't follow nor even listen to you,and that certainly is not biblical,is it?

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

deacon has discovered the truth about me

I would say it's pretty OBVIOUS, just look at my downvotes.

People like you who WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT but you can't even be bothered to vote for what YOU WANT. LOL self sacrificing suicidal fools.

Yes.. deacon.. my true colors are showing.. I'm a Jew incarnate of Satan who personally installed thermite and lured the desperate jihadists to do MY will (sorry more didn't die, but I'm not done with America.. not by a long shot, because now I've got the commies and Islamic devils on MY side in the UN Agenda to do MY work AGAINST YOU; LOL). I'm pretending to be a Catholic, but really I'm a Jesuit and a Mason of the highest degree and making deals with every weapon manufactor there is because I CAN and I get rich, so rich I am so far beyond your reach.. . LOL YOU empowered me!!! LOL

I could careless if you listen to me. I want you to hate me, because HATE is what I LOVE. I want your apathy. I feed on your apathy and wants. I've got POWER and you got a Bible, the biggest LIE ever created. God doesn't exist and he won't help you because you didn't stop me.. you didn't even try.

goo goo g'joob

But Granger, You Love Israel!

You claim to love Isreal, but you don't want to know the truth.

BTY, I'm probably not going to vote anymore either. That is why YOUR government is amassing forces against it's own people.

You were a plant from day 1 on daily paul, and your side is losing ground. My neighbors won't put up with your kind.

Yessiree base, I LOVE Israel


If I'm a plant, what does that make you? A zombie?

Granger, I haven't checked Wiki to see their 'today's',

definition of a Zombie. But I think Zombies are people that aren't capable of 'or don't care' about the truth. I that light, I think you are quite wrong in suggesting I'm a Zombie.

You and I were both 'baptized' Catholic at a very young age. We have both been fed a bunch of propaganda, and much of that propaganda has been done to incite hate. I don't hate you, but my patience grows weary of people that can't/or refuses to think for themselves. There is no reason for a person to be ignorant now. People are now expressing their heart.

America stood for the Protestant Principles that came about because of the Reformation. Love it or leave it. The same people that brought about Hitler, have been at work here in America, and Israel as well.

They want freedom, creativity, and respect for a personal God outside of their control destroyed.


Don't you feel a little bit ashamed at suggesting base1 is a Zombie?

Merry Christmas Granger, and God Bless you,


Speaking of Zombies

Granger, if you truly live in Californika, I understand that McCain is going to need help to get re-elected. He is owned by the war mongers and though I don't think the people of Israel have any more of a clue than your zombie post, McCain is more than willing to use them.

Perhaps you might be able to help, he's not that far from you, and though you might not agree with him 100%, you and he both LOVE ISRAEL 100%.

What more could you ask for to throw your support behind? A political marriage I think. Go for it!!! ;)

Amen to that Granger!

Nicely done!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

deacon's picture


to you as well

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

deacon's picture

Now,you speak truth?

after all this time,there is a god...haha

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

It's a full moon, so now is a good time

If there was a God deacon, would I be empower and FORCING you with VIOLENCE, taking everything you need to survive and laughing at you?

Again, THANK YOU FOR NOT VOTING and keeping me in POWER.

You have the power...

To "appoint" your next slave-master, to "appoint" your next mafia boss, to "choose" your next rapist, to "choose" your next thief, to "choose" your next kidnapper, to "choose" your assailant...

What a "power" to behold. Be sure to THANK your slave-master for that scrap of "power" that he allows you to have. "Thank you master... I kneel before you."

Is that what happened to you?

I'm not kneeling to anyone. goo goo gjoob!

I'll assume you're being facitious for the sake of making a


However, the point is a rather weak one.

I could just as easily deny you power over me, declare any self-assumption of power over me as without legitimacy, barbaric even, criminal, and then rightfully put you on notice that I will use any and all means at my disposal to defend myself, my liberty, and my property from your wanton despotic desire to control me, including but not limited to lethal force if I have no other recourse.

Not voting does not give you power over me. On the contrary, it is voting that does the trick, for it offers legitimacy to your pretended claims that otherwise have none.

The OP is spot on. Force outside of self defense has no legitimacy. It is barbaric, despotic, and criminal. We should not be trying to make it palatable, but rather eradicate it.

Try me

You don't believe in force?

Well tough.

Because I've got the power. You and yours gave it to me.

Do you think I actually give a damn if you don't like to be forced?

I don't.

What I care about is that you don't force me, and the only way you can is to vote. You don't.

Cry me a river about being forced, because I've got the power and since you don't care about voting out people like me.. I will FORCE peopele like you with ALL FORCEFUL means.. I'll take your rights, I'll take your property. I'll take your voice. I'll make your wolrd HELL, because that's what I'm good at.

Thank you again for NOT voting.

goo goo g'joob

By not voting you're empowering FORCE against you.

I never said I don't believe in force.

I said I deny your claim of power over me.

I never gave you power over me.

If I had, the only way I could possibly have done so is BY VOTING.

Without voting, you have no claim to power over me.

Sure, you can attempt to make good on your claim with violence, but I have the same tools at my disposal.

Voting is what gives you power. It's why you are so upity about people deciding not to. You invested yourself in a game that others no longer want to play so you are throwing a fit like a 3 year old.

Of course, really, all of this sounds tounge-in-cheek. If you REALLY mean everything you said, literally, then you are one sick and twisted individual, and I must ask, WHY are you here?

I know this site isn't just about Ron Paul any more, but I don't think he'd be sympathetic to your stated views as they are.

Lol see! It wasn't that hard to be yourself,

was it?

"I will FORCE peopele like you with ALL FORCEFUL means.. I'll take your rights, I'll take your property. I'll take your voice. I'll make your wolrd HELL, because that's what I'm good at."

And THAT, ladies and gentleman, is the true Granger.

"I want to FORCE YOU."

MMhmmm. We know, Granger. We know you love Israel, Netenyahu, and the Likud Party.

Btw, your vote doesn't mean shit and you know it:

Diebold software + SCYTL.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

I'm good at it too

Force without violence... how sweet it is.

Which is why

you'll never be liked here at the DP.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.


I will NEVER stop voting, I do it every day.

But I Am considering taking myself off of the Voting Roll. The only reason I wouldn't is to respect the one effort that still has a founding in the rule of law.

You think Voting is going to bring you freedom Granger? You and your family have died for the Pope. And the pope doesn't stand for freedom. He's the representative of the NWO. You know it when you don't have chickens to talk about, and so do I.

base base base base base base base

You vote everyday.

How about telling me what you are talking about? Surely you are not talking about elections with candaites and issues on ballots.

If I thought voting was going to bring me freedom, I wouldn't bother being in the GOP, LIKE RON and Rand PAUL, showing up to meetings, conventions and backing Liberty candidates and issues. The WORK previous to voting is what will bring freedom or not.

My family dies for the Pope? My Father was a hard core Objectivist who loathed Christians with a purple passion. My Mother may have been a believer.. Her grandfather was a Nicodemus and she seemed proud of that.. but I was not raised in a Christian or Catholic home and I was not allowed to bring Christians over or associate with them.

I never understood why.. but I thank God for you base, because you help me understand my parents. Thank you base.

Granger I think that you missed the message of the post

I think your votes about the self sufficient life style you claim are a more powerful influence than any result you have received by your efforts at a ballot box.

It's my observation that Ron Paul's greatest accomplishment wasn't in the laws he tried to enact, but his conduct as a lawmaker. It was that conduct and his study that educated a great deal of people, drawing fire and infiltration all the time throughout the decades.

Politics aren't about winning elections, politics are an educational platform, and now one way for me to expose corruption.

But I don't hold my right to vote in a corrupt voting process of any value at all. I vote with my wallet and my daily actions. EVERY FUCKING DAY.

Our government is CORRUPT, bought off by the fake money. And the illusion that you have been 'allowed' to have a voice in it is pure deception.

I'll give you a hint, the people in Israel are as deceived as you are, by the same source.

I may have missed the message base

This is the mesage I get from you

1. Granger is a Catholic, thus Granger is Satan incarnate
2. Granger Loves Israel, thus Granger is Satan incarnate
3. Granger is GOP, thus Granger is Satan incarnate

Therefor be it resolved:

1. Granger will be called out abundantly, constantly and from the rooftops:
B. Cheat
C. Thief
D. Fraud
E. murderer (by proxy)


1. Until the Granger is DEAD, you will NEVER STOP, in the name of Jesus Christ, to do everything in your most devine and generous mercy, to undo the Granger and rid the world of such EVIL, dispictable subhuman filth.

And finally, God Bless the Granger, may she burn in the eternal hell she created for herself forever more.

Have a nice evening base.