42 votes

I'm not voting anymore

I have been a libertarian for about two years now. I was introduced to libertarian thought by Ron Paul's 2012 campaign. After that whole debacle, I began to consider who I would vote for in 2016 when the time came. Since the 2012 elections, however, I have been doing a lot of thought about my philosophy. I have really delved into libertarian ideas such as the non-aggression principle, and my outlook on voting has completely changed. I will no longer be voting.

I believe there can be no moral justification for government. If we accept that people should never use violence except in cases of self-defense, then we can no longer justify government. Government requires violence to exist. Taxation is theft, etc. If the system you support does NOT require violence, then it is not government. Government is by definition violent.

Can we move past the idea that reforming our government could somehow work, or is even the morally right thing to do? It's a delusion.




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Studying Ireland.

I don't think small clans are anarchy, it is tribalism. I was just pointing out the it is not working argument goes both ways.

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Agreed, those were not anarchic societies

And the argument does go both ways.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

There is no need to provide examples of working Anarchy

to advocate no rulers.
But If you have to have some sort of example,I would probably point to the (not so) Wild West in America.

Can you provide an example of government that has not grown to lay chains on its people?

Has there ever been a year in which U.S. Government DIDNT grow?

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
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The wild west?

It was "wild" largely because of land communism: i.e. the government owned most of the land, which everyone was allowed to use, but no one could own privately. The predictable result was constant fighting over land (e.g. between farmers and ranchers) and resource depletion (tragedy of the commons). In some places, the wild west conformed to the "anarcho" part of anarcho-capitalism, because the government was weak or absent, but it certainly was not a society with strong property rights and so lacked the "capitalism" part.

But I agree with you that the absence of historical examples of anarcho-capitalism is not a good argument against it. But then ancaps cannot use that same historical argument against minarchy either, as our confederate general friend has pointed out.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

voting is not a normal human

voting is not a normal human affair. It's participating in evil.

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

How can we stop or slow down tyranny without anyone

anyone keeping our government in check? Is letting tyranny grow bigger considered an act of evil?

kind people rock

If we want an effective choice,...

we must change the voting paradigm from the broken, one voter, one vote, 'first past the post' paradigm, to either http://rangevoting.org/ and/or http://www.fairvote.org/instant-runoff-voting#

I am one of those wacky people who believe people own themselves. That the right to be left alone is pretty much an absolute. That people should think and take action that serves their own self interest while respecting other people's similar boundaries. For this I am often called an elitist. Rather than rule by Philosopher Kings, I believe in each of us practicing ruling ourselves, and I would advise that each of us be well satisfied if we can rule our own life well.

I am an advocate for anarchy, and in opposition to chaos, because I advocate replacing all coercively imposed 'law' with individually, voluntarily, created 'law'. In most every context, a coercively imposed contract is not considered legally binding at all,... with the state itself as the universally recognized exception to common morality in the name of preserving morality. As to the means,... so go the ends. I am a radical for the premise that respect flows from admiration rather than from fear.

"The dearest ambition of a slave is not liberty, but to have a slave of his own."
Sir Richard Burton

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

welcome to the true awakening

learn more by perusing the non-voting archives:

http://www.strike-the-root.com/vote.html

And then read the non-voting bible:

http://www.amazon.com/Dissenting-Electorate-Refuse-Legitimac...

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

Voting just encourages them.

~

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

And not voting depresses me!

:(

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Emma Goldman (1869-1940)

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Voting is a tool for bringing about change.

It does not mean that you support the status quo, the current government, nor even government in principle. You can be an anarcho-capitalist and still vote: I do. There's no hypocrisy in that at all.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

It implies consent for the

It implies consent for the system. Why even pretend that it's voluntary?

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

Voting for Ron Paul implied consent?!

Of course it did not.

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As the saying goes:

If voting made a difference it would be illegal.

If whining on the internet made a difference

would it be made illegal? :)
So, why are they letting people like Amash get elected if they (powers that be) are so powerful?

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Controlled opposition

Controlled opposition

They suck at controlling the opposition in that case!

They vote like I would in most cases, a big loud NO to the garbage!

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Oops Wrong term

Token opposition

Ain't token, liberty is spreading like a virus :)

Right at the time when most of you are giving up. Ironic really....

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Haven't gave up don't even

Haven't gave up don't even discuss much around here as we are mostly just the choir preaching to each other. I try to educate everyone I come in contact with about liberty when the opportunity is there.

All cool :)

this thread is depressing is all.

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Did you hear that loud noise?

That was Karl Rove heaving a sigh of relief. I guess complaining about the state violating your rights is better than taking your country back, right?.
Ron Paul people are actually getting elected now. And almost none of you care!

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Taking it back to what? Just

Taking it back to what? Just a little evil? Just a little minarchism? No thanks.

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

You would rather have

A police state than the Constitution? Fine.

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So not voting implies that I

So not voting implies that I want a police state?

Why must I choose the lesser of two evils? I wholly reject that notion.

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

Do you think they give a damn?

about what you 'reject'? You just keep complaining about the Constitution, that will fix everything.
:)

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Not voting doesn't imply you want a police state...

...but it does assure you'll get one.

This has become a cliche, but it is true as ever.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

In other words, no matter how much you hate the state and "withdraw your consent," it will continue to grow unless it is actively resisted.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Voting is the only active

Voting is the only active form of resistance I have?

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."