10 votes

Phil Robertson's Free Speech Violated?

Phil Robertson has no RIGHT to be on A&E's network and thus they can fire him if they fear he'll use their network to promote views which they find morally repugnant. As long as the STATE does not intervene to get Robertson fired, then his liberty has not been violated.

If A&E cannot fire Phil Robertson for his views on homosexuality due to free speech concerns, does this mean he could advocate for the murder of all gay people (due to religious beliefs) and A&E still can't fire him? What about the murder of all Muslims? Murder of all Christians? Surely A&E can have SOME standards for who they support or broadcast?

I ask this seriously because it seems a lot of us on here still do not understand how liberty works. Thanks.

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Can't believe I am weighing in on this distraction, but...

...here goes:

Phil Robertson has every right to express his opinion, irrespective of what anyone thinks.

A&E has every right to fire him for publicly expressing those opinions (subject to the terms of any contract that may be in force).

People have every right to boycott A&E and their advertisers if they so choose.

IMHO

This is not about free speech, but about powerful groups using a media source to force their view of morality on the public, by any means necessary. Want to stop actions like what happened with A&E, then do what has already happened, boycott and stop watching A&E. If this was about free speech, then it would be the government we would be protesting, not A&E.

The man in the mirror

No one has said they can't fire him. They can fire him for no reason if they want. But that is not what's at issue here. They were well aware of his beliefs, so to say they are appalled by his language and therefore in breach of his contract is disingenuous. He did not call for gay people to be killed or hurt in any way, therefore there is no reason to be offended in the first place. Christians have always believed homosexuality to be sinful. This isn't anything new.

This entire thing is a concerted effort to stifle free speech by the government controlled collectivist organizations. If you can't see that, then your blind.

It seems as though you are the one who doesn't understand how liberty works.

You are exactly right. I

You are exactly right. I agree with what Phil said, but I find it highly likely A&E took this action without knowing fully well it could contractually do so. We have to be consistent, and enforcing contracts is one of the few things government can and should do.

Free Speech Be Damned

This isn't a free speech issue. Infringement of speech is a result of government intervention. In this instance A&E isn't telling Roberts what he cannot say. A&E is telling him that he can say whatever he wants to, however, there are consequences if he voluntarily violates his contract with A&E or does or says something that may embarrass A&E.

It is a property rights issue. A&E can hire and fire anyone for any reason whatsoever and without justification. Do not encourage government intervention here, as no one's rights have been violated. What happened here is that many falsely made it a freedom of speech
issue and ran off at the mouth without checking their premises.

A&E has the right to fire anyone that its management wants to, but, also the management must be prepared for public backlash. This time they thought that the usual response against persons who speak out against homosexuals would go unnoticed, however, the progressives at A%E incorrectly assumed that their homophilic agenda is being accepted by mainstream America. That isn't the case.

Many Americans find males having sex with each other as repugnant and against nature. The blow back (pardon the pun) is their way of expressing this discomfort by commingling it with the issue of free speech.

Personally I don't care what consulting adults do in their bedrooms. That is their own business, but, they cannot demand of me to consider it normal behavior either.

It only takes one to KEEP AMERICANS FREE. Know your duties & rights as a juror. Stop the unconstitutional conviction of innocents in federal custody. The Fully Informed Jury CALL 1-800-TEL-JURY www.fija.org IMMEDIATELY if not sooner. It's that important.

Unless the FCC issued orders to A&E

That's horse of a different color.

Free includes debt-free!

He was quoting The Bible...

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Roman 1: 18-32

So if people have issues with what Phil Robertson says then technically they have issues with The Bible...and God. Phil Robertson didn't make this up. He just recited it. There's much more going on here than just "anti-gay" language. Take note.

My favorite bible quotation

"It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.”

Oh, is that not in the bible? Well that's what he actually said.

Indecent acts violate the non-aggression principle.

About tastes there is nothing to dispute.

If congenital defects manifest as differing tastes, force is still indecent.

Free includes debt-free!

Problem is the hypocrisy of the left.

Sure, A&E has a right to do it, so long as they are keeping their end of a contract up.

BUT, the hypocrisy is that the left touts, "Private Company, private company, private company," but they would be all too eager to sue anyone who would dare discriminate against a gay person even though it would be a "private company, private company, private company."

Very true

Conservatives do the same thing.

"Private company private company private company"

"OMG I had to dial 1 for English I'm voting for Duncan Hunter"

Broadcasters have one standard.

If no one will sponsor the show, it won't air.

Market forces reflect economic realities.

Free includes debt-free!

The system is working...

Walmart has sold out of Duck Dynasty merchandise and A&E has backtracked on Phil's suspension. Under Armour has said they stand with Phil...

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Ya but no one is arguing his

Ya but no one is arguing his free speech was violated, so you're pissin up the wrong tree.

What people are saying (accurately) is that his religion is being held up for attack through vicious misrepresentation, to make him and people like him look bad and feel bad about themselves. And it seems timed to right as we come on Christmas to make Christians ashamed.

So the fans are just exercising their freedom of assoc and speech to express their disgust with A&E's behavior.

If you don't think A&E and its parent company broadcast all kinds of programming that ridicules and attacks xians among other groups and paints them all as backward, evil, etc., you're probably already brainwashed and not worth the energy to wake up.

His ignorance is being

His ignorance is being attacked, and rightly so. He is choosing to defend his ignorant beliefs behind a cloak of religion. It is right and proper to call him on his ignorance nonetheless, and if doing so offends those equally ignorant, so be it.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

How is it ignorant to believe homosexuality isn't normal?

It's not normal. It's rather abnormal actually. And I'm not making a subjective call here. The entire way nature works depends on males and females mating to continue species; being gay doesn't fit the natural model and is therefore, not the norm. Cloak it in whatever you want but gayness is abnormal. Sorry if it sounds ignorant but I don't have a tv show so it doesn't even matter.

Normal

It's not normal. It's rather abnormal actually. And I'm not making a subjective call here. The entire way nature works depends on males and females mating to continue species; being gay doesn't fit the natural model and is therefore, not the norm.

There's a lot about human romantic/sexual relationships that is not about procreation. If a post-menopausal woman has a romantic, sexual relationship would you call that "abnormal" in the same sense? Or a man who is sterile due to a disease, such as the mumps, or because they had a vasectomy? Is birth control in general "abnormal" in the sense you're describing?

It appears to me you are the

It appears to me you are the one who is ignorant, and only dig your little heels in deeper when corrected. That's not way to be.

Yep thanks to Phil and his

Yep thanks to Phil and his Christian brothers and sisters here at a Daily Bible Thumper teachin' me the scripture I'm now seein' the err of my ways. Gotta stop hanging with my gay brother-in-law lest I start gettin' funky feelings fer my dog.

Hallelujah! I is saved!

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

I don 't get the joke. I have

I don 't get the joke. I have a number of gay friends, that's how I know they don't like being defined and controlled by political demagogues. You seem to have a deeply ingrained hostility to a collectivist label called christians you've been taught to hate by your identity politics. you're playing into the hand of the christian demagogues who play up the "gay attacks on faith" and continue the game on their side. you're getting played.

Cute. Don't have an argument

Cute. Don't have an argument to counter my simple one that ignorance musn't be tolerated simply because it's labeled as religious, so associate me with the PC crowd. You can do better.

Societal beliefs and norms of acceptable behavior can change, though it usually takes time. I'm old enough to recall when bi-racial marriage was "unholy", old enough to have seen elderly black gentlemen step off the sidewalk to allow a white person to walk by because he knew it was unacceptable to be on the sidewalk with a white.

Those days are gone thanks to people speaking up and letting the ignorant hear feedback to their ignorance until the ignorance was enlightened, shut behind closed doors or died with those unable to accept the truth.

We are at that point with LGBT acceptance. They're not going back in the closet and they shouldn't have to and the sooner folks accept that the better. And for goodness sakes, if they can't accept that they should at least keep their beliefs to themselves and not express them on a libertarian forum where they are read by impressionable new truth seekers and incorrectly associated with libertarian thought.

Stop dancing around the issue, Bill. You're better than that. Take a stand.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

You are deeply confused

You are not enlightening anyone. What you are doing is shutting down free speech by telling them to keep their beliefs to themselves.

Was forcing people to serve anyone in their establishments as a result of the Civil Rights Act enlightening or a destruction of one's property rights?

How is it that you fancy yourself a libertarian when you nothing of libertarian philosophy? You are clearly a fascist troll here to pollute our political philosophy. How long has it been since you left RawStory?

Looks like you might have a

Looks like you might have a slightly warped understanding of the 1964 Civil Rights act, not to mention of libertarianism and my position on the gay bashing "Christians". Lemme see if I can help you out.

1. Forcing people to serve anyone in their establishment, as did the 1964 Civil Right act, is a violation of property rights.

2. Forcing one to discriminate against persons of a specific race in their establishment, as did the state and local Jim Crow laws of that era, is equally a violation of property rights.

3. Finally, people discriminating against others in their establishments on the basis of race, while not a violation of property rights, is mean, hurtful and unChristian.

4. Calling gays sinners, while protected speech, is equally mean, hurtful and unChristian.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

Discriminating against people

Discriminating against people based on their race is illegal according to the Civil Rights Act and absolutely is a violation of one's property rights. You don't understand the first thing about libertarianism.

Calling gays sinners is absolutely Christian and always will be. We're not going to change the Bible for you.

You don't have a right to NOT be offended in life. That's freedom. If you don't get that, get lost.

Discriminating against people

Discriminating against people based on their race is illegal according to the Civil Rights Act and absolutely is a violation of one's property rights.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said. Read for understanding much?

And you don't have a right to be a bigot hiding behind his religion and not get called on it.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

I hope this is not Christianity...

Another quote of his:

"They're full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, god haters, they are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless, they invent ways of doing evil!"

Sounds more like the Old Testament than the New Testament.

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

You hope what is not

You hope what is not Christianity? Something BILL3 said, or the quote you just posted?

What Phil Robertson said-

What Phil Robertson said-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk5VmM4pRhM#=18m30s

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

Sure,

I've heard Phil Robertson speak. I'm certainly not going to weed through a fifty minute youtube video searching for the moment Phil Robertson quotes the apostle Paul. If you have already done so please hone me in a bit by providing cue time information. Your comments thus far remain arcane. Your second is as fruitless as the first as it tempts the solicitation of more information. Why refer to BILL3's Twitter handle without posting what it is?

Edit: Thanks for the cue, and thanks for removing irrelevant reference to BILL3's Twitter account. You may be quick to party with yourself, but you are more than quick to learn how to party with the rest of us. Party on! :D