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God In Danger of Popping Out of Existence

Priests from the Vatican Council for Divine Research have issued an ominous warning to the peoples of the world. Based on the conclusions of the best of modern religion, an unseen danger lurks beyond the horizon of our pious lives: God could suddenly pop out of existence.

At first, the announcement was met with cheers from the United Atheist Alliance. They issued the following statement:
"We all recognize that less and less people are falling prey to the fiction of an all-powerful being responsible for the creation of everything. As the number of believers shrinks, the God egregore shrinks as well, until no one believes in God anymore. At that point, when the last believer perishes, the God egregore will pop out of existence."

However, the Unified Atheist League vehemently disagreed and issued a rebuttal:
"No. That is not what they meant. We simply can't wait that long. As Douglas Adams has shown us, the way to defeat God is to trap him in a paradox of logic about his own existence. We are compiling a database of usable paradoxes, and we have undercover agents in seminaries. They are laying in wait to unleash the paradoxes in a flurry of synchronized sermons, obliterating God with a blitzkrieg of logic."

The United Atheist Alliance and the Unified Atheist League then proceeded to argue until the arguments escalated into a war of mutual destruction.

Meanwhile, the priests continued with their warning.

"Yeah, that's not what we meant. We all agree that God created the Universe. But where did God come from? The conventional wisdom is that God is eternal. He always was. You know, what some people say about the Universe. But if He always was, then how long did it take him to create the Universe? Did God just sit around for an eternity, before the thought occurred to him that hey, let's make a world? No, God is all-powerful. Such a thought could have occurred to Him anytime He wanted. And since we all know that God is infallible, and He decided that a world would be good, such a thought would have occurred to Him immediately. But what does that mean for a being that eternally was? Clearly, God must have come into existence at some point and must have created the world almost immediately after coming into being."

The priests, who have been talking collectively as one voice, paused momentarily to let their deep insights sink in.

"So here is the problem, then. If God just came into existence at some point before creating the world, then he could just as easily pop out of existence at any point. This is what we fear. In the infinite horizon of the future, this is a logical necessity. God will pop out of existence sooner or later."

However, not all priests agreed. A dissident faction explained that they have come up with a solution to this problem with a concept called God of God.

"We posit an even more powerful entity that we call God of God. God of God created God, and God then created the world. This completely solves the problem of where God came from."

"But what about God of God? Who created God of God?" asked the other priests.

"Why God of God of God, of course. It's Gods all the way down!"



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God meets reality.

Was it Lenin who said that if a lie is told often enough it will be accepted as true. He should have added that that acceptance would last until reality caught up with it.

Now after many thousands of years reality is finally catching up with the god hucksters. It is going to take a while for the cycle to complete itself but someday soon the god hucksters will be out of business, surrendering to the superiority of logic and reason over the false security of faith.

The god hucksters can no longer claim that faith is superior to reason. They can no longer use their irrational sales pitch of the existence of an omniscient invisible being living in the clouds promising eternal life to the "true believers.

It only takes one to KEEP AMERICANS FREE. Know your duties & rights as a juror. Stop the unconstitutional conviction of innocents in federal custody. The Fully Informed Jury CALL 1-800-TEL-JURY www.fija.org IMMEDIATELY if not sooner. It's that important.

I'll tell you what's irrational...

...Observing the world with your human intellect and concluding there is no creative intelligence behind it. Allowing yourself to be manipulated and brainwashed by scientistic materialism and a false theory of evolution. Giving in to false and damaging illusions of intellectual superiority over those who recognize and humbly acknowledge their Creator.

The Creator

Does not exist, as we think of existence. In order to create this existence one must be ABOVE that which he/she/they created. So it is not god who would "pop out of existence" but it would be us. We are a spark of the creator trying to figure what makes us tick. Every time we have an experiment trying to find the space between atoms we see that it is empty. This existence is an illusion, a thought experiment, a matrix, a play ground, and a school of thought. All built, and geared towards self discovery, and self evolution.

The Law of One talks about it in 2 respects, Service to Self, or Service To Others. One is positive, one is negative. Each dynamic and offers ways to evolving yourself.

The creator offers the tools, it is up to us to use them.

Religion was created to explain Creation.

That doesn't mean they have the right explanation. Science is the same as religion, in the regards it tries to explain creation. Science has fallen for the same paradox as the religions have. Religions believe an omnipotent God created everything. Science believes we all started from a speck of compressed everything. Neither can explain the source of creation. Why should I throw out the former when the latter is no better. Religion seems to be quicker on the up tick than science by thousands of years. They just call the speck God!

you speak as if you know this

you speak as if you know this to be a fact

hahaha AWESOME post!

hahaha AWESOME post!

SteveMT's picture

Before Adam, how did the Almighty fill His time?

God has been around for greater than 13.8B years, the age of the universe. His age is as close to infinity as it gets. Prehistoric man dates back to 2.3M years, which is only the last 1.67% of the entire age of the known universe, a relative eye-blink. The arrow of time only points forward; no one can go back. Once the Big Bang occurred, that event started time moving forward. If God abides in a black hole, both time and age are rendered meaningless; He becomes both ageless and timeless. Before the Big Bang, there could have a stable singularity, which is just as easy to imagine as there being nothing at all. Something happened to destabilize the singularity.

Our sun popped into existence 4.6B years ago. 4.6B years might as well be considered as infinite as 13.8B years if anyone actually contemplates just how long a span of time that is. The sun could just as easily pop out of existence, which would make this discussion about God popping out of existence irrelevant. We will not be able to distinguish the difference between our sun popping out of existence and the Almighty popping out of existence. If earth implodes (the earth's diameter is expanding, btw), Nibiru hits us, or we annihilate ourselves, then such an ELE will be the equivalent of God popping out of existence. It won't matter.

Instead of giving us these dire warnings, these priests need to focus on both fixing themselves and their own house; they need to heed the warning of the Almighty about their preying upon the innocents:

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Footnote: Although this thread was written as humor, I could see the clergy really saying something like this. This story is not as outlandish as you believe it to be.

Disregarding the rest of your

Disregarding the rest of your comment, do you know that 2.3 million is not anywhere near 1 percent of 13.8 billion? 1 percent of 13.8 billion is 138 million. 1% of 138 million is 1.38 million. So 2.3 million is not quite double 1%, of 1%, of 13.8 billion. Aside from that thanks for the funny comment, I hope it was meant in the spirit of the ripoff of the spirit of the original. If not, you might want to tackle math before metaphysics.

SteveMT's picture

Thanks for correction: 1.67 X 10-4

New computer, and a new calculator that displays exponents in a new way.
0.000167 which = 0.0167%. Yup, that is a lot more like an eye-blink.
I was trying to point out that there isn't much difference between 4.6B and 13.8B relative to a human life-span. If either the sun goes or if God goes, then we will follow no matter which one occurs. The comment was written with the same tongue-in-cheek as Ed Ucation.

Also want to point out...

..the sun did not "pop" into existence, it collapsed into existence due to inexorable gravitation. Once it gets big enough and the pressure gets great enough it ignites into a fusion reaction. It consists initially of a mix the detritus of elder stars (with a head start on heavy metals) and protostellar gas.

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

SteveMT's picture

When it reached a critical mass & temperature it became a sun.

When fusion began, it became a sun. The ignition process was what I was referring to. Thanks for the clarification. I take it that your only concern was with this technical correction, but not with the rest of what I said.

It would not require

an event horizon of a black hole for God to function outside our notion of time. Just because the time dimension for our universe is a line so to speak, there is no reason to believe that God would operate on that same timeline. To us, what is past, present, and future could coexist in any sort of direction and order, or all at once to a being not constrained to one dimensional time and three dimensional space(4D time-space).

Interesting question we simply do not have the capacity to answer.

SteveMT's picture

God seems to abide by the same forward pointing arrow of time.

There are no reports of Him going back in time and changing events. He adheres to the same rules that we are confined by. "What's done is done." "There are no second changes." There are no redos for us or also it seems for Him. I'm not saying that He couldn't. I'm saying that He hasn't chosen to go back in time and change something. He didn't go back and kill Mao or Hitler to see what the world would have been like without them, like an alternative ending of a movie. If He could have, He would have, IMO. For example the flood. God promises not to make another flood. He could have hit the redo button back then, but He didn't. He should have flushed this mess of a world down the toilet a longtime ago and started over. The fact that He hasn't is a measure of God's great mercy and patience.

God's existence is illogical.

God does not exist, God Is.

grant

So many bubbles...

..constantly popping. Frothing and foaming, fading, reforming. Each tiny box, a life in itself, flickers of consciousness, acting on whimsy. Plenary theory embraces the all, godness and light-bearing cleansing our guilt. Blood spattered legions of zealots arrange themselves in opposite tracks. Pushing, enthralling, demanding, revering, scorning the infidel's thirst for the truth. Eschewing the logical ultimate manifestations of ideological storm brewing cacaphony of faith.

Hail Prometheus, Bearer of Fire.
Hail Apollo, Pilot of the Light.
Hail Lucifer, Bringer of Knowledge to Gardens of Ignorance.
Hail every poster who ponders these questions.
Free verse invigorates.
Believers retaliate.

Excelsior!

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

A bubble bath of quantum fluctuations,

Spumes of rustling invitations,
A smorgasbord of destinations,
Popping in and out.
An eye in doubt,
Lets one sprout,
By reaching out.
With a sigh,
All others die,
When I spy,
That there's no eye.
Nothing reflects,
on the surface convex.
A bead of foam,
With no one home.
An empty mirror?
This barm had charm.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

If a thought such as that which would occur to God immediately..

..would manifest itself immediately because of God's infinite wisdom, then why doesn't all wisdom occur right now simultaneously so that there is no suffering?

Oh, that's right. It's because there is no such thing as an all wise being that can create a good thing and the opposite of that good thing.

If God could do that, we wouldn't need these words, or to chop down trees to express ourselves, or any of that. Don't you understand?

This world, and therefore God, is limited by our experience. What you do, God cannot undo. It is set in stone forever. That is the nature of our universe.

God knows this. This is why atrocities occur. God can only do what we do. Whatever you have done, God has done. Whatever that thing and this thing and anything has done, God has done. The opposite is true. Whatever has not been done, God has not done. There can be no consequence to that which God has not done. Therefore, you must only be careful to that which you have done, for there will always be a consequence.

There is always a consequence to that which God has done; to that which you have done.

Love thy enemy.

Logic fail

The argument assumes that God exists within time.

He does not.

Time is literally irrelevant to Him, because He is completely outside of time.

Is your brain hurting? Good. That means you're thinking about it. Here's my pathetically inadequate metaphor. There is God. There is a tiny, infinitesimally small box called the Physical Universe and Time. God is outside of this box, but He can reach in at any point of the box, in any manner He so chooses.

You see, to put it most accurately, God never "was," He always Is. In Jesus's words, "Before Abraham ever was, I Am."

C.S. Lewis described all of time as "God's eternal Now."

You know what I hate? When people try to use phrases like "man in the sky" or "wizard" to mockingly refer to God. Regardless of one's religious beliefs, the concept of God is so distant from these sarcastic titles it isn't even funny. You see, God is an omnipotent, omnipresent Being that is on a plane of existence so far above us that it's literally incomprehensible, able to manipulate and mold the physical universe in ways we can't comprehend.

My humble request: kindly be respectful rather than dismissive and mocking of the idea of God. It is not, and never has been, a silly concept. Nothing stifles legitimate debate like one side treating the other as though it is automatically stupid. We engage statists, for the most part, as equal, intelligent human beings. Why can atheists and theists not treat each other with that same respect?

you speak as if you know this

you speak as if you know this to be fact

We are on a need to know basis

There are things we won't know about until we go to the next level of life. Simple as that. God rules and our pea brains can't possibly imagine what is outside of time. It boggles our minds. That is where faith comes into play. Sort of like we know that the sun will come up tomorrow. We don't know why we know this, but we have faith that it will come up tomorrow. (Well, actually according to the weather channel, there will be no sun tomorrow in my area) but tomorrow will come.

Your argument assumes that you cannot know God..

..for all that exists that we, as humans, can know..exists in time.

If a being is outside time, then how is anything to know "him" that is within this infinitesimally small space? And further, how is one to expect to appreciate the laws that this God commands upon a population over 4,000 years ago?

This God must be asking too much for it to actually consider such a tiny brained animal to believe in something that only showed itself to prophets thousands of years ago, and at no time in the recent few hundred years, even. How would a God like that think to survive in such an advanced scientific age without showing itself in an obvious way?

It's because that God is not real. Sorry, but this is the only truth, unless your God cares.

Love thy enemy.

"..for all that exists that

"..for all that exists that we, as humans, can know..exists in time."

If the presupposition is that God can effect the material universe at will, then what's the issue? In fact, the presupposition within Christian theism is that God is not only capable of effecting the material universe, but that He is continually sustaining it.

"If a being is outside time, then how is anything to know "him" that is within this infinitesimally small space?"

In the case of the Christian God, we cannot, unless he reveals Himself, and He has. He has in at least three ways.
- By natural revelation; the very nature of this contingent material universe, including ourselves (our own nature being one that some put in a different category altogether) - a source available to all men.
- In the person of Jesus Christ (limited in direct terms to a particular space within time and particular people)
- And to those He has called to faith through the divine revelation of scripture.

"And further, how is one to expect to appreciate the laws that this God commands upon a population over 4,000 years ago?"

"Appreciate"? Well, if one knows of this God through His various revelations, then what does a mere 4000 years of history really matter to them? But to be clear, it has always been a part of Christian orthodoxy that God's commands are of two very distinct kinds. One kind is indeed applicable to a certain population, within a particular frame of time. The other kind, which one can call God's moral laws, is applicable to all mankind at all times. For example, one series of commands discusses transporting a particular ark, across a particular wilderness. The other set discusses how to treat ones neighbor, be he Moses, Obama or Ron Paul. In the case of any, one shouldn't covet his property or sleep with his wife.

"This God must be asking too much for it to actually consider such a tiny brained animal to believe in something that only showed itself to prophets thousands of years ago, and at no time in the recent few hundred years, even."

This statement is simply packed with your own metaphysical and epistemological assumptions, along with your resulting personal feelings about what is or isn't reasonable expectations to hold.

"How would a God like that think to survive in such an advanced scientific age without showing itself in an obvious way?"

This question carries the expectation that we accept your understanding about God's nature and that your conclusions about what is reasonable to expect are, well, reasonable. And it is stated in a strange way to Christian ears... how would God think to survive without showing himself to science? Excuse me, what?

I really don't understand the downvotes.

Ed is just playing with our minds. It is meant as humor.

It seems to me that a God who could create an elephant, a giraffe, and a kangaroo must have a sense of humor. It's really too bad that not all of his sentient creations do.

It seems to me that Ed is actually being quite fair, as well, by making fun of dogmatic atheists as well.

not funny

.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

LOL Too Funny

My wager is MAN is going to be popping out of existence first.

That depends on who the last

That depends on who the last people are. God will vanish the moment the last religeous person does. If im the last person alive, the Christian myth will be known as a cruel joke put in place to keep peasants in their place, but the high god Ao will rise to power. All hail Torm!

haha

I was always partial to Athas.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

A strange way to portray

A strange way to portray priest, most of whom would be under the conviction that God's existence lay outside of time, and in that sense, eternal - unrelated to time in His being. Thus, they would argue, he created the very existence of time, as we experience it in this contingent reality. In God's being, there is all time, at the same time. What one might call the eternal now.

Or at least, that was how priests answered similar dilemmas from my objecting mouth, back in the day.

Ya but you would have to be

Ya but you would have to be familiar with the arguments on both sides to know that. : )

No Doubt

:)