22 votes

Exactly When Was Jesus Born? Not on December 25.

In all likelihood, He was born in September.

Entire article here: http://wp.me/p13mHb-i1



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

and the prophet wasn't white

and the prophet wasn't white either lol

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

Er, which prophet?

Jesus Christ was Jewish.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

JESUS WAS NOT A Jew Benjamin

JESUS WAS NOT A Jew

Benjamin H. Freedman, Jewish Historian - Researcher - Scholar.
From "Common Sense", p. 2-1-53 and 5-1-59

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

A direct descendant of King David...

...through both Mary and Joseph, but he wasn't Jewish?

Are you serious?

Oh that's right, neonazis believe that King David and his "bloodline" was really from an Aryan ruling class.

(eyeroll)

A Hebrew then, of David.

"and how King Bulan and the Khazar nation in about 740 A.D. became so-called "Jews" by conversion"

Converted to what? A belief system? That existed among non-Khazars before them? Right, Judaism.

However, I'll give you that this belief system is not exactly the same as that of Abraham, Jacob and David. But the term 'Judaism' has existed since around 200BC. Although it has become more synonymous with the Sadducee/Pharisee religious system than with Faith in God, it was also used at the time of Jesus to denote ethnic hebrews. And Jesus was one of these. So I still think it is incorrect to say that "Jesus was not a Jew".

What you mean is:
a) Jesus was not an ethnic Khazar. And,
b) Jesus was not a submitter to Sadduccee/Phariseeism.

Agreed.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

For some crazy reason...

... I can't remember the exact time I was born. In fact, I can't remember much of anything at all before I was about 3 or 4 years old. It's just crazy.

As I'm wracking my brain over this critical lack of data, I'm largely ignoring the world around me... it's just that important to me.

Imagine how better the whole world would be if we knew the exact day that Jesus was born, and, maybe more importantly, if I could remember the exact time I was born.

God help us all.

SteveMT's picture

You wouldn't have had to remember your birthdate .

Your parents would have known. Giving birth to such a radical world changer like Jesus, Mary and Joseph would have known to the exact second when Jesus came into this world. No doubt that they should have known that date. I guess that they didn't want to tell anyone what it was.

It was the custom of the time

to celebrate a person on the day of their death NOT on the day of their birth. It is custom nowadays to do the opposite, thus we recognize Christ's birth once a year.

Why is that so hard to understand. This whole conversation is reminding me of Paul's comments to the Corinthians on Christians getting tied in knots over doctorine with no basis.

Why not do what Jesus called us to do as Christians and just love one another. If it upsets you that the WORLD recognizes Christ's birth and acknowledges his existence on Christmas or Easter, or whenever, there might be a problem with you. God encourages us to praise and worship him. It is a beautiful thing that our savior is glorified on this day for the world to see.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

SteveMT's picture

This member can't remember when he was born.

I said that his parents should know this information more than he would.

Whether or not "it was the custom of the day" to celebrate their birthday, these people would have known and their family would have known the date of their birthday.

Throughout the Bible, people's ages are stated like Noah's, Moses', Abraham's, Jesus', etc. They had to have know their birthdays to know how old these people were. That is not hard for me to understand. How about you?

Uh, we knew generally Christ's age.

No one was disputing that. We know that he was around 30 when he began his ministry and around 33 when he was crucified.

The question was the day he was born. To my knowledge we don't know when anyone in the bible was born.

I know my birthday because it is culturally the norm to know that. It is also important to the government to know when you were born for military conscription, social security, education, on and on.

The new testament was officially transcripted long after the death of Christ and Mary and Joseph. So who would have written it down and again, why would they care? I get why you care because you live in the 21st century where these things seem to be important.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Finding the exact dates of Jesus life ...

Since the chronology of the ancient history is false, there is no reason to expect that the dating of Jesus' life is correct. In fact there are very strong mathematical arguments to shift the Christian era 1000 years forward ...
Watch
http://vimeo.com/50675312
or read
http://www.amazon.com/History-Fiction-Science-Chronology-No/...

The basic problem is that one believes that everything is real, and thus everything is treated as such.
---Kalu Rinpoche

The Star of Bethlehem

A pretty compelling argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGUlWa2r-bk

Yes.

God could have created a universe to reflect and reveal Himself. Why insist that Christmas is sun worship instead of considering that the sun may have been made as a symbol of God?

God created the sun.

I hate to repeat myself but I find the sun worship concept a little ironic being that God created everything.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Longer Article on the date of Messiah's Birth

With thanks to the OP, there is now a longer, better-sourced article on this topic at http://www.dailypaul.com/308674/he-tabernacled-among-us-mess... - okay kids, go enjoy yourselves!

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Saturnalia, "Satan Claws", and Pagan history behind X-mas...

http://www.dailypaul.com/308575/ho-ho-ho-merry-saturnalia-2-...

Very educational, very interesting vid at top of OP page, explains pagan history behind many Christmas traditions and Customs. Second vid discusses how Santa tradition began as worship of god Saturn, who eats his children...

That said I'm going to eat Christmas dinner right now, and had a very Merry Christmas and hope you all do to. Despite the morbid facts behind some of the history, I think you'll find it a very positive thread as well.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Truth

God does not exist, God Is.
Everything created by non-thing.
Exist = christ
nonthing = Iehuvihs
grant

That Which Is Seen Created By That Which Is Unseen

Everything that was seen created out of nothingness..

SteveMT's picture

People want to know exactly when Jesus was born.

Beginning 5,000 years ago, both the movement of celestial bodies was studied and the development of calenders and clocks were accomplished by the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Babylonians.
http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa070701a.htm

Time was being accurately measured for over four millennium prior to the birth of Jesus. Yet, nobody knows when Jesus was born, AND the very same civilizations who developed these accurate time keeping methods were put to death by the Hebrews for their supposed sins against the Almighty. Now these same religious demagogues are fretting because the birth of Jesus happens to be celebrated at the very same time as the Winter Solstice, where the sun in lowest in the sky coincidentally for three days. There are no such things as coincidences. However, the irony is stunning about the slaughter of those who developed measuring the passage of time and those who now want to know exactly when Jesus was born.

It doesn't matter when Jesus was born

You would be hard pressed to discover when anyone was born at that time period, especially a would be nobody born in a manger like Jesus of Nazareth. That's what happens when you have a humble birth. No one remembers it. King Herod was killing babies at this time as well. Why would anyone publicize the birth of their first born son? Mary and Joseph were not rich so who would record it and why?

Some of you need basic historical and biblical context before analyzing these issues.

You are looking at this with hindsight instead of from the perspective of the times.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

SteveMT's picture

You have very selective "basic historical context."

Abraham was 100 years old when he became a father to Isaac. Abraham or someone kept tract of his birthday to know that. Not 63, not 101, but exactly 100 years old. Abraham did what the family of Jesus could not do and that was to keep tract of his age. I guess that they were smarted in the Old Testament days. Hindsight indeed.

What day was Abraham born on?

...

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

SteveMT's picture

These had to have known when they were born to know their ages.

Was the Bible imprecisely written like these examples below? Is the Almighty One for communicating in almosts, abouts, and maybes? I usually hear the opposite that the Bible is very precisely written in every detail error-free.

Genesis 17:17
Then Abraham bowed down to the ground, but he laughed to himself in disbelief. "How could I become a father at the age of [about] 100?" he thought. "And how can Sarah have a baby when she is [about] ninety years old?"

Genesis 25:7
These are the days of the years of Abraham’s life, [about] 175 years.

Exodus 24:18
Then Moses disappeared into the cloud as he climbed higher up the mountain. He remained on the mountain [about] forty days and forty nights.

Deuteronomy 34:7
Moses was [about] 120 years old when he died, yet his eyesight was clear, and he was as strong as ever.

"I usually hear the opposite

"I usually hear the opposite that the Bible is very precisely written in every detail error-free. "

That's just not accurate though, I have to ask if these people have ever *read* the book (without a commentary of some sort intermediating between them and the text?)

As an example, I Kings 7 if read in this way tells us that pi is 3.

That's obviously wrong, and for that reason you will find plenty of people point this out to discredit the Bible. Of course it doesnt discredit the book precisely because it wasnt written with that sort of literal mindset and that expectation of precision. I Kings 7 does not imply an incorrect value of pi, it simply informs us of the (rough) dimensions of the object incidental to telling a story. The story is the point, and the bible is focused on this, not on the value of pi.

Similarly, the "geneologies" in the Torah were not written to provide what we think of now as 'historical data' - that is a much later postjection, it's an idea the modern reader brings to the book, not one native to the text itself. Numbers throughout the Bible are either approximate, or symbolic, or both at the same time, and this is not unique to the Bible either, it's characteristic of ancient literature in general.

SteveMT's picture

It looks like the Hebrews stole the pi = 3 value from Babylon!

Pi = 3 was first approximated by the Babylonians before 1900 BC! The Hebrews, (or was this a mistake by the Almighty [satire]), didn't yet know of the more precise calculation of pi at 3.14 known for over 1,000 years (see below).

You are now on what's called the slippery-slope. If this indeed is an error and other Biblical numbers are also "about and approximately," then the question is, what else is in error or about or maybe or probably??? We had better know what is exactly correct and what is not if salvation is going to be based solely upon the words in this book. Alternatively, are we making this harder than it should be as in simply "love God, and love your neighbor," which I believe is error free and 100% correct!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"The ancient Babylonians calculated the area of a circle by taking 3 times the square of its radius, which gave a value of pi = 3. One Babylonian tablet (ca. 1900–1680 BC) indicates a value of 3.125 for pi, which is a closer approximation."
The Rhind Papyrus (ca.1650 BC) gives us insight into the mathematics of ancient Egypt. The Egyptians calculated the area of a circle by a formula that gave the approximate value of 3.1605 for pi.
http://www.exploratorium.edu/pi/history_of_pi/

"1 King is believed to have been written between 621-597 BC, and 2nd Kings is believed to have been written in exile, mostly likely around 561 BC."
Read more: When was 1 and 2 Kings written? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/47873#ixzz2pg6w5kyM

"You are now on what's called

"You are now on what's called the slippery-slope. If this indeed is an error and other Biblical numbers are also "about and approximately," then the question is, what else is in error or about or maybe or probably??? We had better know what is exactly correct and what is not if salvation is going to be based solely upon the words in this book."

Salvation is a concern that only really starts to generate any sort of press in the 2nd century bc. Reading that concern back into a text from the 6th century, about events supposedly from the 10th century bc, is a slippery slope I would be more concerned about.

BTW...

The ancient Babylonians (and Egyptians etc) did NOT think that pi was 3. They were making and measuring circles quite early and the instruments were certainly good enough to figure out that it was actually just a little bit more than 3. Quantifying 'a little bit more' precisely is a task that has occupied the intervening centuries (and turns out to be unsolvable) but people that actually dealt with this, priests and surveyors (not always two different things,) must have understood that the three was a rough approximation for thousands of years.

And if you think about it there are actually very few cases where you *need* to know more than that. 'About 3' is fine for most applications, and excessive precision is actually a bad thing. For instance if I specify a value to 5 digits but the tools I am using only allow me to be accurate to 3, then by hyperspecifying I have actually wound up *lying.* And using a compass to create a circle does not involve any calculation of pi.

In context that passage in Kings is simply using appropriate precision. Notice that the numbers are all round! If you imagine the author of the book sitting down and measuring everything with the proper instruments (or being the creator of the universe and able to measure even more accurately) you would expect a lot of slightly off measurements, you would have all kinds of fractions of cubits (a cubit is pretty big.)

But of course that is just not what you should be imagining here (or anywhere in the Bible.) This passage was written roughly middle of the 6th century bc, but the events it purports to describe would dated to the 10th century bc, quite a few hundreds of years earlier. The pool (if it ever existed at all) had disappeared long before the author of 1 Kings set quill to sheepskin. And that entire line of thought just misses the point of the passage entirely.

That entire section is an ancient near eastern trope, a meme. It is painting a picture here of Josiah's royal ancestor in the quite distant past who built a temple every bit as grand and as majestic as anything the Babylonians or the Egyptians had done. The details are just details, and the only thing important about them is they are big enough to stand up to the competition.

In reality

It doesn't really matter when Jesus was born. The Bible didn't specify exactly when Jesus was born. Sure, the Bible did gives us clues, but I think the reality is that Jesus' birthday wasn't that important. The day Jesus died and resurrected from the dead was much MORE important. The Bible gave clear and exact description and date of when Jesus died. And even if Jesus was born but unless he died and was raised from the dead again, then none of it would have mattered!

And culturally, people were remembered upon death

not upon birth. No one celebrated birthdays so why record them? This is a modern concept.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Truth Is There Was Much Deleted Or Omitted From The Bible

Bible scholars or Bible traitors, in my opinion, may have deleted much in order to deceive, or trick us into believing certain things that are not true.

Much of what is written about the Christ was deliberately omitted. Those that know what these are have power over life and death. Many of the other books of the Bible were omitted as well for reasons not readily clear.

One day we will know more. The translations were poor as well.

The teaching of 'GIVING' was taken all wrong. Giving was to be mostly of kindness, of being kind to one another, NOT of buying things or the giving of gifts, etc) The practice of giving gifts is not part of original Christian teaching...

SteveMT's picture

Thank you for that comment, emalvini.

Some of 'the truth' may indeed be contained in the Bible. Some of what is there no doubt should not be, and some has also been either omitted or perhaps was never written.

Maybe the search for the true 'Word of God' is a test; that the uncertainty is supposed to be this way. WE are suppose to fill-in-the-gaps that are missing. WE are suppose to correct what we know to be wrong, and also retain what we know to be correct. I appreciated reading your thoughts about this. Peace.