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Exactly When Was Jesus Born? Not on December 25.

In all likelihood, He was born in September.

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"We lack the

"We lack the insight/knowledge to know the things that have been kept away from us."

Actually it is getting better. Much knowledge that was once lost has been rediscovered.

"The people who put the bible together purposely, in my opinion, left things out or deleted things out that would have made reading and understanding things better."

I have studied this extensively and I have to say there is shockingly little evidence of purposeful corruption of the Tanakh. Jeremiah does warn us about the lying scribes and I am not saying he is wrong there - but they seem to have been very conservative and very afraid to tamper, to the point where when they DID tamper they would usually do it in some cute way that could somehow appear justified or simply a mistake.

For instance, when they wanted to erase the part that tells us about Moses' descendents (one of whom was disgraced) they did NOT dare to simply erase and rewrite it. The error was introduced into the translations, yet the original text was left as is. There is a place on the scroll where the letters 'MSh' meaning 'Moshe' or Moses had a superscript, a red 'n' - this should not be pronounced, it should not be translated, it is simply a graphical reminder that we are talking about Moses here.

But what have they done? They combine the text with the superscript, producing 'MNSh' or 'Manasseh' instead. And then translate it that way.

If they had felt free to simply rewrite the offending passage, we would never know about it, but there are many cases that fit this pattern, where we can spot the corruption and reconstruct the original message.

I have some work for you

Emalvini, I have some work for you, being I ask that you do some Scripture searching as did the Bereans, even though you do not trust the Bible as the authority of the Almighty.

Jesus very clearly stated over and over again by His Words and His works that He truly was "One with the Father" that He alone can forgive sins as only God can.

Jesus clearly stated that "He that has seem Me, has seen the Father".

"I and My Father are One"

He alone can still the wind and the waves, He alone can open the eyes of the blind, that He alone could open the ears of the deaf, that He alone could heal the lepers, that He alone could raise the dead, He alone can save!

The Bible is permeated throughout that He, the Lord Jesus Christ is the "Creator" of ALL thing both here on earth and in heaven, of all that is seen and unseen.

Do you think that we mere simple minded mortals can figure out with our puny understanding, God and all that He is?

He gave us His Word for all to read, listen to and believe.

He did not give us understanding unto all things about Himself but only that which is written in His Word and those things that testify that He is the Great I AM!

"Believe and be saved, believe not and be damned" it is written.

The Bible is the very Word of God.

Get yourself a Bible that is faithful!

A King James Authorized or a Geneva and READ IT!


" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

The Bible Is The WORD From God Through Inspired Men

NOT the word of God, but the word FROM God through INSPIRED MEN (The Prophets)

God reveals himself to men who are willing to listen to that quiet voiceless voice...The Ah Ha...experience...Now I see..

Let me ask you one little question friends: How do you know that you're alive?

** ANSWER: Because YOU CAN SEE that it is true, not because someone told you, or you read it in a book.. If the Bible tells you something, do you believe it because it says so or because it makes sense or you can see that it is true.

Be careful about what people say or what words in a books say. You can't always believe something just because 'IT IS WRITTEN'

What is it that tells you that something is true? The letter or the word killeth, but the spirit lives... You must temper what you read by using common sense (Wisdom from God)

Why do you think Jesus left us nothing in writing..He knew that one must live by spirit (every word that procceedith from the mouth of God..(His Spirit) Not words...

I personally believe before the first man was tempted by words (Eve) Adam lived by intuition (His inner knowing, unclouded by a sin nature)

As a result of the first temptation (Spoken Word), language and sin entered into the whole human race. We are affected and react to words. THAT'S THE HOOK! We have lost our ability, for the most part, to live by our inner knowing..

Anyway, that is how 'I SEE' it..

Merry Christmas!

Romans 10:17

Elmavini, I really pray for you and your poor understanding and lack of trust in the very Word of God.

It is written tnat "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"

That Word of God is given for all to read, hear and then act upon.
You deny that Word, and by doing so you ignorantly deny the One who gave us His Word making Him a liar.

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

The same was in the beginning with God

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

April 6th
According to many Mormons it was April 6th. The reference is to the part in which many LDS people use as why they believe it is so.

When shepherds were in the fields of Bethlehem

Shepherds only have their sheep in the field to graze when grass is growing. I've heard some put the probable date in October, but since the Bible doesn't make a big deal of that, or any date, as Jesus' birthday, why should we?

Look at the way folks have made this, "the reason for the season", when it only started out on that date, December 25th, because Emperor Constantine wanted to, "Christianize", the pagan holiday, "Saturnalia", when he wanted to impose his brand of Christianity as the State Religion.

Don't get me wrong, I love the well wishes and general good cheer that families and friends enjoy, but look at how much grief and greed has been made a big part of this "holy" day also?

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

No Thanks! - Saturnalia was and is wicked to the core

How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]

D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

Good Stuff, but not quite encompassing

Cultures all over the world have been celebrating the winter solstice for many thousands of years, including early North and South American cultures. Many from two thousand years ago included the sun/son of god rising from Virgo after the shortest day of the year. It isn't just Saturnalia. It is possible that Saturnalia included some bad stuff - but in the big picture it is inconsequential. Saturnalia was Roman, not pagan.

It is very possible that Yeshua/Jesus was an amalgamation of several pagan and pseudo-Christian religions (A good book is "The Jesus Mysteries" - very well done and written as a thesis)

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Roman, not pagan?

What are you talking about, the Romans were pagans you dumbass! Jesus was not any amalgamation. That's what the neo-pagans would like you to believe.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

And the name-calling begins.....

Why do you have to be so hateful?

No evidence, just name-calling and ranting. The definition of pagan is pretty spread out. In general, it is small groups that practice outside of a major religion, and the Roman polytheism was a major religion. Pagan, in cultural terms, is most often considered Northern European and Germanic at the time of the Romans along with the Soroastrians of the Middle-East.

Roman religion is often considered pagan, but only in recent academia.

So, yes, can be tricky. But, there is no such thing as "neo-pagan". Either a person is polytheistic and outside of the major six religions or they are not. Nothing "neo" about it.

I love how you make a declaration that "Jesus was not any amalgamation". Your declaration means nothing. Try the book I suggested. Another good one is "The Christ Conspiracy". I tried your book for a couple decades, why are you afraid of my recommendations?

I wish you a hearty Merry Christmas and hope you had some good holiday time. I do not think you are dumb. Nor an ass.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

SteveMT's picture

Mohusk, I believe Sinclair Lewis was correct.

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. - Sinclair Lewis

Using logic is not an effective tool here. Peace.

Mohusk, lets agree to disagree

Your definition of pagan is laughably way off.

"Either a person is polytheistic and outside of the major six religions or they are not."

That in fact is close to the definition of paganism; being polytheistic. (the major six religions thing is completely arbitrary, many of them are also polytheistic, so pagan).

"Your declaration means nothing."

Correct, but it is God's declaration also. Try the book I recommended, that you clearly haven't understood very well, The Bible. Not afraid of your reco's, but I've heard your arguments before, I used to argue them myself.

I do think you are dumb. And an ass. ;D But this is meant affectionately. Merry Christmas!!!

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

Just gotta say....


That's a neat question to look into,

but does it really matter? We should all be happy that He did come. He was the greatest gift of all.

My understanding is that He was born

on 8-08-08, 8 being the symbol of infinity, and the difference in years being due to the difference in today's calender year, as opposed to the calender year 2000 years ago.