10 votes

Did Humans Live With Dinosaurs?

Puff The Magic Dragon...

Lived by the sea...with you and me?

For the ultimate skeptic in all of us, just fast forward to 16 minutes in and watch for 2 minutes.

Seems like the Creationists have more science on their side than Darwin ever had.


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dinosaurs were invented in the 1800's

Dragons are in every culture throughout history.

Makes you think...

I live with one everyday !

I live with one every day! I named him Barney and he is purple. What ??


the fact that this post has

the fact that this post has 14 upvotes just ruins some of my faith in the liberty movement

Edgar Cayce on the subject

Recognizing limitations of both scientific belief & religious belief,
Here's Edgar Cayce's history on the subject - From Reading 364-4:

"5. Then, with the coming in or the raising up of Esai [?], with the change that had come about, began in that period when there were the invasions of this continent by those of the animal kingdoms, that brought about that meeting of the nations of the globe to PREPARE a way and manner of disposing of, else they be disposed of themselves by these forces. With this coming in, there came then the first of the destructive forces as could be set and then be meted out in its force or power. Hence that as is termed, or its first beginning of, EXPLOSIVES that might be carried about, came with this reign, or this period, when MAN - or MEN, then - began to cope with those of the beast form that OVERRAN the earth in many places. Then, with these destructive forces, we find the first turning of the altar fires into that of sacrifice of those that were taken in the various ways, and human sacrifice began. With this also came the first egress of peoples to that of the Pyrenees first, OF which later we find that peoples who enter into the black or the mixed peoples, in what later became the Egyptian dynasty. We also find that entering into Og, or those peoples that later became the beginning of the Inca, or Ohum [Aymara'?], that builded the walls across the mountains in this period, through those same usages of that as had been taken on by those peoples; and with the same, those that made for that in the other land, became first those of the mound dwellers, or peoples in that land. With the continued disregard of those that were keeping the pure race and the pure peoples, of those that were to bring all these laws as applicable to the Sons of God, man brought in the destructive forces as used for the peoples that were to be the rule, that combined with those natural resources of the gases, of the electrical forces, made in nature and natural form the first of the eruptions that awoke from the depth of the slow cooling earth, and that portion now near what would be termed the Sargasso Sea first went into the depths. With this there again came that egress of peoples that aided, or attempted to assume control, yet carrying with them ALL those forms of Amilius [?] that he gained through that as for signs, for seasons, for days, for years. Hence we find in those various portions of the world even in the present day, some form of that as WAS presented by those peoples in THAT great DEVELOPMENT in this, the Eden of the world.

6. In the latter portion of same we find as CITIES were builded more and more rare became those abilities to call upon rather the forces in nature to supply the needs for those of bodily adornment, or those of the needs to supply the replenishing of the wasting away of the physical being; or hunger arose, and with the determinations to set again in motion, we find there - then Ani [?] in those latter periods, ten thousand seven hundred (10,700) years before the Prince of Peace came - again was the bringing into forces that to TEMPT, as it were, nature - in its storehouse - of replenishing the things - that of the WASTING away in the mountains, then into the valleys, then into the sea itself, and the fast disintegration of the lands, as well as of the peoples - save those that had escaped into those distant lands.

7. How, then, may this be applicable to our present day understanding? As we see the effects as builded in that about the sacred fires, as through those of Hermes, those of Arart, those of the Aztec, those of Ohum [Aymara'?], each in their respective sphere CARRYING some portion of these blessings - when they are kept in accord and PURE with those through which the channels of the blessings, of the Creative Forces, may manifest. So, we find, when we apply the lessons in the day - would ye be true, keep that EVERY WHIT thou KNOWEST to do within thine own heart! Knowing, as ye USE that as is KNOWN, there is given the more and more light to know from whence ye came and whither ye go!

8. Ready for questions.
9. (Q) Please give a description of the earth's surface as it existed at the time of Atlantis' highest civilization, using the names of continents, oceans and sections of same as we know them today?
(A) As to the highest point of civilization, this would first have to be determined according to the standard as to which it would be judged - as to whether the highest point was when Amilius [?] ruled with those understandings, as the one that understood the variations, or whether they became man made, would depend upon whether we are viewing from a spiritual standpoint or upon that as a purely material or commercial standpoint; for the variations, as we find, extend over a period of some two hundred thousand years (200,000) - that is, as light years - as known in the present - and that there were MANY changes in the surface of what is now called the earth. In the first, or greater portion, we find that NOW known as the southern portions of South America and the Arctic or North Arctic regions, while those in what is NOW as Siberia - or that as of Hudson Bay - was rather in that region of the tropics, or that position now occupied by near what would be as the same LINE would run, of the southern Pacific, or central Pacific regions - and about the same way. Then we find, with this change that came first in that portion, when the first of those peoples used that as prepared FOR the changes in the earth, we stood near the same position as the earth occupies in the present - as to Capricorn, or the equator, or the poles. Then, with that portion, THEN the South Pacific, or Lemuria [?], began its disappearance - even before Atlantis, for the changes were brought about in the latter portion of that period, or what would be termed ten thousand seven hundred (10,700) light years, or earth years, or present setting of those, as set by Amilius [?] - or Adam."


Physical Evidence of Men and Mastodons from my neighborhood

One of the really fascinating finds here in Sequim, Washington is the scientifically confirmed finding of man's coexistence with mastodons, which scientists previously said was IMPOSSIBLE before this find.

Maybe scientist don't really know all they proudly assert, eh?


Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

The spear tip in the Mastodon's rib was made of animal bone

I've seen the reproduction in our museum! From the article:

"Manny Manis discovered a 6-ton, 9-foot tall mastodon skeleton on his property in 1977. Over the next eight summers, the family home was an archeological excavation site. One item researchers found: a spear tip.

Manny and his wife Clare were convinced that hunters had killed the mastodon, but scientists insisted that humans were not hunting in the New World when the mastodon on their farm died.

Thirty-four years later, the prestigious journal Science published a study Thursday confirming that the mastodon discovered on the Manis property was hunted and killed by humans some 13,800 years ago. It amounts to the first direct, scientific connection between man and mastodon, and the earliest evidence of humans living in the Pacific Northwest."

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass


to response in the other thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3301633

On second thought the topic is more relevant to this thread, so here's what I found when I checked up on this:

FIrst, if it's a choice between what someone thinks they've figured out "immediately after his own examination" and a careful scientific study, and you're preferring the former, that (again) shows that you don't understand how science works.

Second, I can't find anything that sounds at all like the controversy you are describing. You write that this pushed the date "WAYYY closer to modern times," and previously you wrote about "the scientifically confirmed finding of man's coexistence with mastodons, which scientists previously said was IMPOSSIBLE before this find." Are you thinking that a mastodon is a kind of dinosaur? Because otherwise neither of those statements makes any sense.

The prevailing view was already that mastodons were hunted to extinction by humans, about 10,500 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mastodon The coexistence of humans and mastodons isn't controversial at all, and the Manis discovery had nothing to do with that.

The controversy was that the Manis site was originally dated to approximately 12,000 years ago (more recently revised to 13,800 years ago), and that conflicted with the prevailing view which would have required a date of several thousand years more recent.

What made the case for an older date stick wasn't anything the farmer could have observed when the bone was first uncovered, but more precise radiocarbon dating than was available in earlier studies, plus evidence from Wisconsin added weight to the earlier date than was believed at the time. CT scanning of the bone showed that the point had been sharpened, which ruled out any possibility that it was a bone shard that had somehow gotten embedded -- which may seem like grasping at straws, but that's how science is supposed to work, by ruling out alternative hypothesis not by jumping to conclusions. Also, if you're imagining that the thing looked unambiguously like a spear tip, look at the photos.

So what this did was push *back* the earliest known human/mastodon interaction in that area, to several thousand years *earlier* than was previously believed. It certainly didn't put the date of anything at all "WAYYY closer to modern times." It also had nothing to do with confirming "man's coexistence with mastodons" because that was not in question at all.

Closer, from a young earth perspective

Here's a fascinating historical tracing of the roots of evolutionary beliefs back to it's religious roots:

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

So closer, from a young-earth perspective, means further away?

Are you saying that "closer," from a young-earth perspective, means "further away"?

Because what you were claiming about the Manis site was completely wrong. Instead of pushing any date closer ("WAYYY closer to modern times" as you said), it pushed a widely-accepted date *back*. And the date that it pushed back had nothing to do with "man's coexistence with mastodons" as you seemed to think. Nor did scientists say that coexistence with mastodons was " IMPOSSIBLE before this find," on the contrary the prevailing view is and was that mastodons were hunted to extinction.


i have no personal qualms

with this theory. however, i find it difficult to believe that there weren't any archaeologists in past civilizations. we're talking about people that built the pyramids and the colluseum and god only knows what else. is it at all possible that they put the bones of dinosaurs together like the current civilization has? they weren't stupid people.

they dug deep and built a whole lotta stuff. surely, they stumbled upon the bones as well. to conclude that because they were aware of dinosaur anatomy they must have lived with the dinosaurs is a logical fallacy. it's a non sequitur.

think of it this way, this civilization has never seen a living dinosaur (i'm not including crocs and alligators and such), and yet we know what they looked like (maybe). at least, we have a pretty good idea. why couldn't it be the same with those in the past? think of all the artwork we have with dinosaurs in the here and now. does that mean we saw them walking and breathing? of course not.

again, i have no problems with people that believe this. it's simply going to take scientific evidence to convince me.

Scientific evidence is what

Scientific evidence is what inspires a lot of us.

We are all searching for the truth. 911 Truth is based on science, but true science often gets shunned these days for political purposes. Anyone who dares to say that USAma Bin Laden worked for the CIA is called a heretic by the mainstream, unscientific press.

The Grand Canyon was obviously formed over millions of years, right?

I've always thought the same because nobody ever gave me an alternative explanation.

I've never heard anyone explain otherwise until now, and this is a more compelling argument than, "A river ran through it," for a few million years.

"Rivers don't flow uphill."

He's absolutely right. Give this video 10 minutes of your time, and you'll be glad you did. Grand Canyon talk starts at about 6 minutes in.

Speaking of time, science and history have proven that nature acts very quickly with sudden, not gradual shifts. Scientific evidence from all over the world says that the last Ice Age happened very quickly - so quick some animals were literally caught frozen in their tracks.


Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

i watched about 15 min. of the vid you posted in your comment

and i have to admit, this man is not making sense to me. he's calling the theory of evolution a lie when, as far as i know, it has yet to be disproven. (i know, how does one prove a negative? but, one could ask the same about the bible.) he makes claims about the grand canyon without any evidence.

don't get me wrong. he's at liberty to believe what he wants, but i take umbrage at his double talk. for example: he states he does not want to get evolution theory out of schools and then asks the audience if books that tell lies (and he sees evolution theory as a lie) should be banned.
and his answer to that is yes.

i would need actual scientific evidence to believe this theory.
your point of the government twisting scientific facts is duly noted and i agree with you on that.

yet to be disproved?

Theory means it has not been proven.

Discoveries of these large

Discoveries of these large bones are probably what prompted the Greeks to think that giants, cyclops, and the like existed. Interesting take on this subject compelled by scientific inquiry and not faith!

What I like about science the

What I like about science the most is how one single discovery can change everything. All it takes is one piece of evidence.

But science has been turned into an industry, controlled by government.

"Science," has been co-opted. Aspartame and genetically modified food is good for you, vaccines are good for you, and the fluoridated tap water is just fine. Just keep slurping your diet cola, shut up, and don't ask questions!

Our government and their paid for global warming puppet scientists would never lie about science, would they?

Why do they lie? Because they don't want us to know the truth.

Science is the ultimate discovery for truth, is it not?



Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Of dragons and dinosaurs!

Creationist scientists questioning evolutionist doctrines along fascinating lines of evidence (of dragons and dinosaurs!)

Many, including Christians, will find palatability of this program suffers, esp. beyond first 30-40 minutes, owing to some blatant "faith-based" biases seemingly shared by the presenting scientists (that earth was created 6,000 years ago, etc.) Even so, the possibility of creatures thought millions of years extinct lingering in secluded locations into relatively recent times is worthwhile and entertaining to consider.

Great Find

Thanks for posting,I watched the whole video.

We live with dinosaurs now...

Sharks, Crocodiles, etc... Of course man lived with them. The darwinists have been replaced by the neo-darwinists, that have been replaced by the punctuated equilibrists. I'm a catastrophist. ;)

When did common sense become a super power? –Patrick F. Holman

Good Question at 22 minute mark

How and why are these mythological creatures occur across different cultures?

Well, lets go to the king of understanding human myth making.. the late Dr Joseph Campell.

Watch these most excellent videos here: http://billmoyers.com/spotlight/download-joseph-campbell-and...

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Yaba Daba Doo

Yaba Daba Doo

Certainly seems more and more like it


Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

What about information?

Where does it come from? How does a believer in The THEORY of Evolution explain where the information comes from? Matter is one thing but what about information? How does information get implanted into matter? Even a computer needs to be programmed. There MUST be a designer. The Universe is held together LITERALLY by mathematics. High-level mathematics at that. Where does that come from? Mankind DISCOVERED mathematics (as far as how to explain the relationship between things) but WHERE DID IT COME FROM? Who designed it? Matter without information is just that...matter.


What do you think "matter without information" means? A system at maximum entropy? In information theory, as information increases entropy decreases. So are you arguing that entropy never decreases, except by the action of a programmer/designer/intelligence? Or do you have a non-standard definition of "information" in mind?

Not exactly

What I mean is who is responsible for the information that is "implanted" into matter? If there was a "Big Bang" then something had to infuse information into that process. You don't have a bunch of dust particles flying around that suddenly have the blueprint for the complexity of lifeforms. Why does a flower react differently from a bird? Why do different flowers react differently to each other? Why do animals instinctively do things that other animals don't do? I'm not talking about learned behavior here. I'm talking about things that take place at a genetic level. Why does some DNA react differently than other DNA? Why do some life forms have small, quick lives while others have longer lives. Is it ALL chaos? Is it ALL chance? Can we not see the ORDER and DESIGN behind nature? Things in nature work the way they do because they were designed that way. A "Designer" or "Creator" put them together to work in just that fashion. We are still trying to understand WHY?

order and design

Then that's not an argument about information, in the sense used in information theory, and entropy in the sense of the second law of thermodynamics. But certainly the intuition that "all of this can't have just happened" is one that humans have shared for all of recorded history and presumably before that as well.

Entropy does not decrease

The second law of thermodynamics proves it.

When did common sense become a super power? –Patrick F. Holman

Not quite

The second law says that the entropy of an isolated system doesn't increase.

The earth is not an isolated system.

GoodSamaritan's picture

Almost there

Paraphrased from http://creation.com/the-second-law-of-thermodynamics-answers...

Open systems still have a tendency to disorder. Raw energy cannot generate the specified complex information in living things. Undirected energy just speeds up destruction. Undirected energy flow through an alleged primordial soup would break down the complex molecules of life faster than they are formed.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father


What do you think "matter without information" means? .... Means non-living matter like rocks, pick something from the periodic table

Watch Living FOssils by Carl Wagner

Look at the Evidence yourself AThiets .... THEY have found FLAMINgos, beavers almost all known Phylum in Dinosaur rocklayers .... SO yes DINosaurs lived with Humans

BUT we do not see this in the museums ..Why ... THE ATheists need to hold to there convictions, there worldview of no GOd ... THERe is no such thing as neutrality ... SO who are the true hucksters