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Why I fled Libertarianism — and became a Liberal

***Disclaimer - this isn't me but feel free to vote down. I found this in another forum

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The night before the 2008 Nevada Republican convention, the Ron Paul delegates all met at a Reno high school. Although I’d called myself a libertarian for almost my entire adult life, it was my first exposure to the wider movement.

And boy, was it a circus. Many members of the group were obsessed with the gold standard, the Kennedy assassination and the Fed. Although Libertarians believe government is incompetent, many of them subscribe to the most fringe conspiracy theories imaginable. Airplanes are poisoning America with chemicals (chemtrails) or the moon landings were faked. Nothing was too far out. A great many of them really think that 9-11 was an inside job. Even while basking in the electoral mainstream, the movement was overflowing with obvious hokum.

During the meeting, a Ron Paul staffer, a smart and charismatic young woman, gave a tip to the group for the upcoming convention.

“Dress normal,” she said. “Wear suits, and don’t bring signs or flags. Don’t talk about conspiracy theories. Just fit in.” Her advice was the kind you might hear given to an insane uncle at Thanksgiving.

Then next day, I ran into that same operative at the convention, and I complimented her because Ron Paul delegates were being accepted into the crowd. I added, “We‘re going to win this thing.”

“Bring in the clowns,” she said, and smiled before I lost her in the mass of people.

I will never forget that moment: Bring in the clowns. At the time, I considered myself a thoughtful person, yet I could hardly claim to be one if you judged me by the company I kept. The young lady knew something I had not yet learned: most of our supporters were totally ***** nuts.

Continue:
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_an...

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I don't believe this guy. No

I don't believe this guy. No way he WAS a libertarian in the first place. He revised his own history for a "compelling" read on his blog and to garner hits.

Once your eyes are opened to the concept that the two "dueling" parties in DC are actually one, there is no going back.

"Villains wear many masks, but none as dangerous as the mask of virtue." - Washington Irvin

Shaming tactics ...

... is the mark of a person who has no idea what he is talking about.

So he bumped his head real hard and then what happened?

???

This guy sounds like...

those creationists that say they used to be atheists, but then became creationists because (insert bullshit here). It's just as phony as anything else out there.

lol, I was in the comments

lol, I was in the comments arguing with him and some other thieves a few days ago.

I almost got the sense the writer was waiting for us. Which I'm fine with, because we were able to destroy their lack of logic.

Look at this Blog

http://blog.edwinlyngar.com/

I think this proves he was never a libertarian.

This post is a total lie.

1. Nobody EVER switches from being a libertarian to a liberal. Once someone's eyes are opened and they see the truth, there's no going back. Libertarians believe in individual freedom for all, as long as that freedom does not impose on the rights of another. Libertarians respect individual rights to life and justly acquired property; liberals don't. At it's core, libertarianism is moral and just, and respects the laws of nature. Liberalism is immorality and injustice, in the name of the "greater good". It uses deception and attempts to substitute a false, man-made reality for true, objective reality.

2. This writer does what all liberals do --avoid actual discussion of ideas, and instead attempt to discredit members of the opposing group as "crazies" and "conspiracy theorists". The writer makes no attempt to demonstrate why libertarianism is immoral, impractical, etc. Why? Because he can't.

Ann in Florida

I think Thom Hartman was once

I think Thom Hartman was once a libertarian before he became a bleeding heart liberal.

liberty lover in Nor Cal!

just like...

that hack, Chris Matthews. They need to claim credibility for being supposedly familiar with libertarian ideas.

Label ME as a nutty kook- 911 was a criminal operation of foreign and black US intelligence agencies. I would not, however, raise these issues at a GOP caucus. The idea that modern liberal politicians have any of the answers to the worlds complex problems is patently absurd: they have their grimy fingerprints all over those problems.

Visit https://soundcloud.com/politics-of-freedom for all recent Ron Paul interviews, speeches, debates, forums, panels, press conferences, news coverage, and Texas Straight Talk updates!

"Terrorism is the war of the poor, while war is the terrorism of

Statist propaganda

with no basis in reality.

First, this guy was NEVER a libertarian.

To be a libertarian you subscribe to universal human individual rights for all people -- namely our right to our own Life, Liberty & Property. You subscribe to the Non aggression axiom. You subscribe to the the idea that you are a free human being with these rights to life, liberty & property, that you will not use force or fraud, thus using aggression and you will always take responsibility for your actions.

Finally, a libertarian sees 3 main sections to society, (not the rich, middle class, and poor as do the liberals) but rather the government legal ruling class, the market community trading class, and the voluntary community charitable class. We see the governmental legal class as taking over the activities of the voluntary community charitable class and crowding out and colluding with the market trading class, hence government growth and size is a very big problem to libertarians. It means the free & voluntary portions of society, are shrinking while the legal governmental Force side to society, is growing.

So, any person who looks at all political issues by using those libertarian principles above will come to his/her libertarian position on the issues.

To recant your libertarian belief is to recant why you no longer subscribe to those principles. The author never held these principles to begin with. He writes and sounds as a liberal through and through.

Concerns for the poor. Libertarians have just as much altruistic concern for the poor, they are just not going to steal from some to give to another, ie use government force to do it. Rather, they are strong supporters of charity and charities and the virtues of the voluntary charitable class. They see big government as not helping, but hurting the poor. Most of all, feelings and actions of gratitude is eliminated from a governmental legal welfare scheme. Meanwhile, such feelings and actions of gratitude are the "motive currency" from which all successful charities work and thrive. Take AA. Without that feeling of gratitude, the whole circle of voluntary help and assistance folds.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

get out! This is New Years, Not April Fools Day!

snortchortleandguffaw! Pew! I smell the stink of disingeniousnesscaca on his shoe and then he traipsed it all around the page.

(yes, I did just make up that word, just like he made up this story.)

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Said No One, Ever!

.

period!

period!

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

salon dot com LOL

salon dot com LOL

Right?

I'm totally calling this with the people that say it's BS.

This guy was no libertarian of any sort lol.

Its a fake article.

When folks call you a clown

When folks call you a clown or a kook be proud. You have a the gift that they are afraid to accept.

What a great gift to have

!!!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

i don't understand

how can anyone go from libetarianism to liberal? with the way things are i went from Constitutionalist to minarchism to anarchist! so i don't know how this person went in the opposite direction...

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

maybe he didn't and it's all

maybe he didn't and it's all a lie...maybe...

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

It's a one-way reaction

Every anecdote I've heard about a so-called transformation from libertarian to flaming liberal has been complete bullcrap. Either they never understood libertarianism in the first place or they are straight-up lying.

"I went from believing in the ethics of liberty and understanding the failure of the State to blah blah blah hyper emotional progressive gibberish blah blah blah and realizing that the government is awesome!"

i just

don't understand im all for people believe in whatever they want of course views are gonna change but with the internet you think someone would be more educated in libertarianism or google libertarianism just like ive google Non Aggression Principle etc etc... it's not that complicated to learn :)

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

Propaganda!

the guy is mentally dysfunctional!

Mind control

is a powerful thing.

A conspiracy is when two or more people engage in the planning or commission of an act...often a crime.

The overwhelming majority of people do not believe the Warren commission report...they believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.

Takes courage to face the truth and to be labeled a conspiracy theorist.

And I guess I really did not see WTC7 come down in 9 seconds in a free fall collapse.

I guess I really did not see 5 Israeli's filming the 911 attacks and then celebrate with flicking of their bics as the towers were impacted.

Guess I really don't see those strange looking clouds trailing across the skies.

Guess Hitler really didn't burn down the Reichstag.

Guess the gvt. really isn't spying on millions of people.

And so on and so on...

Of course, there is an easy way to solve the conspiracy theory problem. The gvt. and those that refute such theories can simply answer the questions that people like myself have with a rational explanation and then conspiracy theories will go away.

Unfortunately, they will not. I wonder why?

I call bs. This is fake.

I call bs. This is fake. Nobody goes from a life of libertarianism to liberal.

Fact Check

Can anyone who was a delegate/alternate at the 2008 convention and still has a copy of the Rally for the Republic program look this guy's name up to see if he is even on the list of Nevada delegates.

Ed Rombach

hey, good idea

If this guy is a poser, it could actually be news to out him.

"Salon" could be nicely and deservedly embarrassed...

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Neo liberalcons and liberals are all the same animal

These attacks will be everywhere as the so-called agenda comes crashing down. This is no surprise.

Being pro freedom and despising any use of the state for your own agenda, will get you these attacks. I don't feel the state needs to be used for anything. Except states who use the proper restraint to keep out criminals, islam, homosexuals, nationalists and dictators.

That's all it needs. Freedom doesn't ever ask for more.

This is an attack.

This piece was generated by a hardcore Collectivist, probably in affiliation with a Socialist/Communist organization like Media matters or the Democratic Party. It is intended to keep the Libertarian philosophy in the "crazy" section of the general public's mind.
By putting it on the DP it is intended to kill moral. In short, it is a poorly disguised attack masquerading as some kind of thoughtful reflection on philosophy.
I intend to use it in the other direction.
I have many Neoconservative friends/associates who become very indignant when referred to as Collectivists. They like to use many of these same arguments against Libertarians. I can't wait to show them this piece and question them as to how they feel about their political teammates.
I think the the best indication as to the growing popularity of Libertarians is this frenzied lashing out at us by both major political parties.

The crucial question this

The crucial question this raises is "do I want this guy to vote for and otherwise support the issues and the people I am for?" And the answer is 'yes, if this idiot is at all marketable.'

Where I differ from so many here is I never gave a sh-t why someone was voting for/donating to Ron Paul. I don't care if you love John McCain, believe the BP oil spill never happened, if you enjoy sex with reptiles or you are a buttoned-down Puritan, I don't care, I'm trying to save the country, not gain a new poker buddy.

I never sell 1,000 pages of liberty to someone when the average, apathetic voter can be sold with a few carefully placed sentences. If someone is marketable, I try to reel them in slowly with what works FOR THEM, never sharing what doesn't work FOR THEM. With those techniques, even the shallow, like the guy in this piece, can help me get what I want.

10-15 million more voters need to believe in non-interventionism (liberty) at home and abroad to change America. Minds changed on Syria. Minds changing on privacy. "Printing money" is part of the dialogue. Win minds through focus, strategy.