41 votes

My Experience With ObamaCare: Insane!

I am self employed. I own a small (very small) contracting company. I have one employee - ME. I had health insurance. It was expensive and not too great, but I HAD health insurance. In October I was alerted by my insurance provider that my policy would end today, 12/31/2013. Why? Because it did not meet the standards of the new healthcare law.

Having children and a wife which I provide for (and legal obligations concerning health coverage for an adopted daughter)I felt I had little choice but to try and secure coverage at an affordable rate through the governments website.

After many attempts, and finally a call to the 800#, I was able to complete the application process (it took weeks). I was told that I had to submit payment for the first months premium by Jan 1 for the policy to be activated. I was also told to contact the insurance company to arrange payment. The insurance carrier is Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield. So I contacted them by phone on Dec 16. The person confirmed they did have my application and asked how I would like to pay. I chose to pay through electronic withdrawal. She took the information and I was sent a confirmation Email stating that my "payment had been submitted" and that I would be receiving plan information and insurance cards soon.

Fast forward to yesterday, having received nothing, I checked my bank account and found that no funds were taken.. and when I tried to call the insurance company, I simply sat on hold for 45 min yesterday, and an hour today. Finally I called back, only this time pressing the keys that one would hit if they were already a policy holder needing to verify coverage. Someone picked up immediately. I explained my dilemma, and she informed me that payments for policy applications under the Affordable Care Act could only be accepted in paper form, a check or money order mailed through the post office. I asked, "So why was I not told this? And why was I sent a confirmation Email saying payment had been submitted?" she replied, "I don't know."

I informed her that I had no idea how much to send since even while thinking I was making a payment by phone, I was told the quote I was given was only an estimate, and that final amount withdrawn maybe slightly different. She said I would need to go to the applicant option through the carriers 800# to discover how much to make the check out for, the very place I had languished on hold for nearly two hours in the last two days! She did give me an address to mail a check too and said I had till Jan 10.

In short, someone is screwing us, and I think that someone is not only the government, but the insurance companies playing loop holes like a rodeo cowboy!

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Guaranteed failure

Government is inept and corrupt. Government is simply unable to accomplish things efficiently. I just can't wait to see the crap storm that this is going to be once it actually goes into practice; I feel like a little kid waiting for the greatest and latest new toy to come out.

My suggestion to anyone that becomes upset by this type of stuff is to simply move to another location. Remember Zimbabwe; once the greatest nation in Africa but then it turned into a killing zone all because of the government. The world is a very large place, and the USA is no longer the land of the free, and it has long ceased to be a place where dreams come true.

This is the straw.

I will not submit and I will not pay the fine.

There is only one cure for this healthcare problem and that is blood letting.

The penalty is going to shock people

People think this penalty is only $95 or $285 for a family. Once April 2015 comes around they are going to be shocked to get a huge fine. I calculated mine to be $818 on http://obamacarefee.com

I'm so pissed about Obamacare. This just shows me America will put up with anything. Iraq war, NSA, Obamacare, anything!

Medicine, circa 1700: Blood-letting, assisted by a middleman.

Before giving sacrificial blood, women must collect leeches.

Circa 1700: Richard Hall enjoyed ill health. He was a worrier,a hypochondriac, and was always being treated for his nerves, for his digestive problems and so on. I still have his prescriptions e.g. for ‘a Chalybeate Medicine’ (indicating an iron deficiency). He also on one occasion had an incision made behind his ear, a dried pea inserted and his ear was then bandaged up for a couple of days, so that a blister was formed. The pea was removed along with the “humorous liquid” and no doubt the doctor went away well paid and happy.

As often as not the doctor recommended blood-letting. Usually this involved leeches being applied to the skin. Collecting the leeches from the streams was a job for women – as seen from this print dated 1814. (the images in this post are from the Wellcome Library, who has an excellent catalogue of gruesome images on their website).
Giving sacrificial blood.
Blood is let (withdrawn). Then, blood is given (deposited) to whom it is due.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Medicine, Circa 1900: Give you blood directly to the leeches.

No middle-man. No waiting. Giving sacrificial blood is time immortal. Bloodletting by leeches.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

I have heard that if you don't sign up and get the penalty

you can avoid the penalty if you don't pay it when you pay your taxes, but you have to owe taxes to avoid it. They can deduct it out of your refund. But they have no mechanism to make you pay it if you owe taxes.

I don't know if that is correct but I heard it on the radio a few months ago.

So, it appears to me that it might be beneficial to not have insurance and structure your withholding so that you owe taxes when you file. Then buy insurance when you have a need for it.

This is really just a teaser - it is written as such to keep

the fire down.

I assure you - this provision will quickly be changed once the penalties start increasing. And it will be sold that those rich people are beating the system and getting away without paying fines - and they will point to a few rich people who owe thousands.

And the masses will demand a change in the law to punish those wealthy tyrants. And the masses will get what they want.



Why are people

signing up? Ignore it and it will go away. Stop giving in to the ponzie scheme.


You Don't Need Health Coverage

You need catastrophic coverage only.

This is exactly why you need to take responsibility for what you eat and drink. You must go organic and use high quality supplements, get a water filter.

Geesh, when will you people learn?

Accident insurance is a good

Accident insurance is a good idea as well. I pay $20 bucks a month and it pays me cashed based on the type of injury. If you get this, first MAKE SURE you get the list of excluded activities such as skiing etc.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

You Would Let Them

...deduct money directly from your b@nk @ccount? Without even knowing the full price they were going to ch@rge you for the policy?

Yes, that was odd. I was told

Yes, that was odd. I was told the price quoted MIGHT be Slightly different. I asked her how I would know my final cost and was told that a confirmation Email would be sent the day funds would be deducted with an 800# to call and cancel the debit if I so chose. I kept checking with my bank and watching my Email.

Why sign up? Why contract? Why consent?

No need for health insurance. Prevention is key. Eat paleo, organic; exercise; get plenty of sunshine; get rid of all chemicals; drink fresh water (not flouridated); right thinking...Worked for me...never needed nor wanted insurance. It's all a scam.

It doesn't matter

You will age and your body will start to fail. That is when most people will run to the doctor and sell their children's and grand children's futures to gain a few more months, weeks or days of miserable life because they are so scared of dying.

Nothing will change this because people are spineless and faithless and in the end almost all turn against God and nature in favor of the immoral medical industry.

I am not sure why you got

I am not sure why you got down voted for that but I bumped you up. The irony of course is that the medical industry will kill you much quicker than alternative medicine. I mean, Asians doing Tai Chi live to be 90+

The cancer industry is the worse. How many times do you hear the cognitive dissonance of "He looked fine until the doctor found out he had cancer and he declined so fast..."

I saw it first hand. We had a friend that had a mild from of skin cancer then went to get chemo and suddenly the cancer began to spread through her whole body and into her brain. The doctors kept giving her more intense drugs to counter it and finally she died after taking an experimental drug. We tried to get her to stop and to do the Gerson therapy with diet and coffee enema's etc but she kept trusting the doctor's fear mongering and we lost the info war and her life...

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

Well at least one dumbass disagrees with the truth.

Go figure.

MY experience with XXX Blue Cross Blue Shield.

I didn't sign up via Obamacare but I am signed up via a Blue Cross Blue Shield company. It's actually a PPO - which I assumed meant I could pick pretty nearly any doctor and be fine.

But I went "out of network" from NY to another nearby state. I told the doctor's office, repeatedly, to be sure I had coverage before seeing me. They spent some time with my card in the back office, handed it back, and told me everything was fine.

2-3 months later they send me a Bill demanding payment. $1100 or so! I call them back, indignant, explaining I have BCBS. They tell me BCBS has rejected payment and they don't know why. They say they will try again. Maybe 2 months later I get another threatening Bill; now saying I am 90 days late or so.

I call BCBS and finally get hold of someone who does some research and says they won't talk to the provider because I am out of network. But no worries, they say they are going to send me a check and I can pay it to provider myself.

I can't convey how confusing the paperwork all is. And the delays. And more confusion. And the time wasted on phone calls. Every visit to the doctor by anyone in family has produced another mailing, often with multiple pages which are difficult to read and only referencing code numbers which do NOT correspond with the name nor bill numbers of the provider. Like a bunch of white toilet tissue. Except some few of the white toilet tissue has a picture of check which says it can't be cashed. And a very few have a picture of check which doesn't say it can't be cashed. I guess I can tear those off and cash them? Like a game of hide the cheese.

Eventually I ask for a re-mailing of the checks and explanations for provider. I spend some time looking at them (harder than it seems because, once again, the provider has sent one bill while BCBS has broken things into three lumps: two for services and one for lab work. And each page says something like:

Provider bill 757.25
Discount arranged by BCBS 601.23
Reimbursement 95.00
Your responsibility XXX (you do the math)

So I do spreadsheets to make sense of this to myself and the provider. I spend hours on the phone with a representative of the provider (who has sent the bills off to a collection branch). They don't have a copy of any of this, keep in mind, as BCBS won't talk to them BUT NOTICE BCBS HAS ARRANGED AN AUTOMATIC "DISCOUNT" AVERAGING 75%+ OFF OF EVERY BILL!

Guys I am probably not doing a good job of explaining just how knotted up and senseless the whole thing is but let me summarize:

(1) BCBS doesn't do ANYTHING. I have to call them to get them to research the situation, and reissue all "uncashed" checks with their breakdown, so I can get money. They won't talk to provider

(2) But - magically - each bill gets reduced from 50% to probably 90% JUST because there is an insurance company in the middle.

(3) it is now a year later and I am only just able to put the puzzle pieces together.

(4) I finally mail a check to Provider for an average of probably 20-25% of the originally hyperinflated "Bill". And I still am getting a bill for $11.21 which doesn't make any sense to me and my spreadsheets but I guess I'm going to pay to clear it.

This whole system is SUCH a scam! 75-80% of EVERY medical bill is BOGUS, obviously, if the mere existence of an "insurance company" makes it disappear! I'm told by a representative at provider that that is a secret deal they make with insurance companies. I'm told the truely indigent get the same discount. SO ONLY THOSE WHO ARE STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SANDWICH, WITHOUT INSURANCE BUT WITH SOMETHING TO PLUNDER, GET STUCK WITH THE 400%-500% PORK CHARGES???

Denninger at market-ticker.org has written and documented this racket extensively but there is nothing quite like experiencing it yourself.

As he points out this is OBVIOUSLY a gross breach of racketeering laws! The Insurance companies aren't mostly providing "insurance", they are providing *protection* from charges they and the providers have imagined up WITH THE FULL COMPLICITY OF THE US GOVERNMENT! No other industry could get away with this sort of price fixing without those involved doing hard time and paying massive, massive penalties. But the Hospital-Lab-"Insurance"-Government racket can!

And now we have ObamaCare to force EVERYONE to pay "Protection" money and make the system all the more opaque and corrupt.

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

I have gone throught pretty much the same

I am on an HSA - so I pay the first 6000.00 out of my account- so I pay very close attention.

Health insurance is the biggest scam of all.
I have had a couple Lyme tests done in the last few months.
Standard price: 650.00
Cigna Negotiated price: 70 bucks

Had an MRI last year
Regular price: 6000.00
Cigna price: 1500.00

So figure this one out. I am on an HSA - meaning - I am paying just like any other person walking in with no insurance - the insurance company just keeps track for deductible limit purposes. Just because I have a card from a company I pay 70. The other person pays 650.00.

The lab gets nothing from the insurance either way - but they can afford to do one test for 70 and the other is 650.

And I have had the same problem you had - doctors office claims they have approval - then all of a sudden - no approval - here's the bill.
Of course - if you expect this and ask how much the service costs - they cannot tell you. And the paperwork is unreal.

I go to get my car fixed - CT state law requires them to post the rate for service per hour, require a written estimate with parts and labor broken out and they have an entire division for complaints.

Go to the Dr to get yourself fixed and you are left completely in the dark.

And on a side note - just went last week for a follow up for the Lyme at a different doctor and actually read the privacy notice(hippa or whatever). They now clearly state in the privacy form that your medical record will be given to law enforcement upon request. NICE!!!!

HSAs were wiped out in

HSAs were wiped out in California. I know firsthand.

now you know most independent doctors are out of business

because they have to do what you are doing - deal with insurance companies....every different patient with a different plan and even with the same patient the insurance company will one time accept it and then one time not. Then they have to go through that nonsense. On top of that the insurance company goes after them if they give cash paying customers more than a 20% discount.....yet you see what kind of discount they give you. Insurance companies increase the cost of health care by a huge amount. Just think the hours that everyone wastes on this stuff.

I had some lab tests done once. If I let them bill my insurance (who doesn't cover it) they would only charge me $179 but if I just wanted to pay without billing my insurance (who doesn't cover it anyway) they were going to charge me $360.

If you still pay attention to your

credit rating, did the doctor ding your credit report?

Free Market alternative to Obamacare

I feel your pain.(That sounds familiar?) Been there done that. I found a better way. Www.HealthShareLiberty.com
Free market libertarian alternative. Cheaper. I can use ANY doctor or hospital I choose. I approve the bills BEFORE they are paid! Did I say it's cheaper. Plus, having it gives me an exemption number for my tax return so I can 'opt out'! Hooray!!!

Oh, I don't think this would

Oh, I don't think this would fly in California.

Might I suggest a U-Haul and

Might I suggest a U-Haul and leaving Ca. ASAP?

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

It is people like you that

It is people like you that make the DP such a great place to discuss issues, but also an incredibly practical resource as well, Thank you for the information! I will check it out and post later.

My wife will be a hard sell on this one, but not impossible.

Call it what it is: The

Call it what it is: The Health Insurance Industry Protection Act. -Adrian Murray

Obamacare: written by and for insurance companies

WellPoint, Inc. is the largest managed health care, for-profit company in the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association. Liz Fowler, former VP from Wellpoint, had a major hand in writing Obamacare legislation. She worked in Senator Baucus' office and has since gone through the revolving door to Johnson and Johnson. Here is what Sen. Baucus had to say about Liz Fowler when she had completed her task, " Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came."

An interesting, yet

An interesting, yet disgusting read at the link. What a jacked up mess! I knew it was bad, but this is horrendous!