6 votes

Got Plywood? NWO Kills U.S. Plywood Industry Jobs. Denies Petition To Stop Chinese Plywood Dumping

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2014/01/02/101306497-186194599r.530x298.jpg?v=1388691385

Dumping petition rejected

In September 2012, Columbia and five of its competitors, representing about 80 percent of the hardwood plywood made in the United States, formed the Coalition for Fair Trade of Hardwood Plywood and filed a petition with the U.S. International Trade Commission to put a stop to Chinese dumping.
"The reality is our folks are getting crushed by the Chinese practices," Welch said.
Welch testified before the ITC this past September, urging it to impose tariffs on Chinese plywood imports to ensure a "level playing field."
In its decision to vote against the coalition's petition, the ITC cited growth in the U.S. hardwood plywood industry from 17.2 percent of the market in 2010 to 22.7 percent in the first half of 2013. The ITC also maintained the Chinese, while supplying some 35 percent of the market, supplied only the low-end product — plywood used for interiors, backs and drawer bottoms of cabinets — "while the domestic product is used for cabinet fronts and sides."

I guess Obama Barracchio lost his Laser Focus on Jobs.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101306473?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity




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Thats a bunch of BS. There

Thats a bunch of BS. There should be NO tarrifs....THAT is free trade. If that means a foreign company undercuts US companies...so be it. It makes for a cheaper product for the consumer and those working that industry domestically can instead work in another sector....regardless as already stated....that is wealth transfer to US citizens...the market balances itself.

Baaaaah, baaaaah, baaaaah,

Baaaaah, baaaaah, baaaaah, probably don't have 50 bucks in your pocket.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

U.S.A is turning down Fascist protectionism for once? YAAAAY!

"The Big Picture"

These money grubbing con artists have accused every nation's wood producers of dumping, not just the Chinese.

In 2002 Bush fell for the lie and hit the Canadian lumber industry with a 29% tariff*, right in the croquet balls.

The day the tariff on Canadian wood passed, a sheet of plywood we buy to make shipping crates went up $7.

My business competitors switched to plastic pods made from oil.

*http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2002/03/22/lumber-tariff.htm

[In the course of my business, we build our own wooden crates to ship our product domestically and export. We use wood purchased from Menards. Instead of using plastic containers, we redesigned our wooden crates to have no scrap, put advertising on them and bought an automatic screw gun and commercial saw to reduce the labor cost involved. I also switched the crate making hunchback employee I have chained up from premium canned cat food over to dry dog food]

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

First off

This will all end soon enough when bond yields start to rise, we can no longer export our inflation, and the FRN starts it's death throes. People will long for the days of less expensive imports of everything. Everything will go up businesses that use those raw materials will die.

Second, and generally, if US firms cannot compete including the cost of overseas shipping, there's a problem here not somewhere else. And obviously there's a problem here.

Third, if some foreign country is taxing, borrowing, or inflating resources out of their people to subsidize some good for export to make it cheaper for us to buy.. we should say thank you! We can use those products to make other stuff and the money we save can buy other things. That is wealth transfer to us and it makes the industry they subsidize weaker and dependent on their government which in time makes those industries uncompetitive and unable to survive without taxing their people to support them.

And that is exactly why our industry is so often uncompetitive in the fist place

We have been doing what we accuse them of for a century.

Because we have been giving that exact same 'help' to so many businesses, the obvious example being auto industry, which we have 'helped', protected, and subsidized into total ruin.

No one is going to put a tariff to protect 98% of us from competition. We have to stop falling for the noisy and well lobbied handful of crybabies that want you to pay to protect their business from competition.

The Constitution...

Respectfully, there is a reason that tariff's are one of the only constitutionally authorized modes of income for the United States Government.

We pushed for free global trade with one world market and the government has happily aquiscesced and replaced the income it formerly generated from foreign entities capitalizing on our comparatively favorable economic condition to financing itself with debt now taken to reward those same entitites.

In my opinion we are shooting ourselves in the foot in our fervor to support anything that mentions or refers to the free market. Notice that the word market is singular. We don't have ONE world market as the market forces between the different markets are not uniform. Tariff's could be used to equalize market factors accross markets, by taking into account the cost of production vs price point, and subsequently their profit percentage when scheduling the duties.

This could/would also foster better conditions in their home markets (higher wages, better safety standards, etc) as it would comparitively decrease the import taxes they have to pay and no longer have an impact on their profit margin.

By advocating for a world free market we are advocating ourselves into an economic pit of unemployment and stagnation until the time in which market forces (standard of living as it pertains to wages, safety, modes of payment and the value thereof, environmental impact standards, etc) become equalized accross all markets.

Then we can have the one free market that many of us argue for. Is that what we want? That sounds a lot like what many of us brand the NWO.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

.

http://youtu.be/768h3Tz4Qik

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

"Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. You cannot say it enough,"

says Nancy Pelosi. And that's all it is: all talk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGCB2TO3iE

You really have to wonder if there isn't some goal to collapse America.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

where does China get the wood?

To make plywood?
Particle board I can understand.

donvino

immoral..they were requesting assistance thru government

. They can find non-violent ways to achieve what they are looking for

I guess it's OK to import wood

Just as long as it's not used in a Gibson Guitar

I was a logger long ago

"Cutter" actually is what we were called. Small company. We only did contracts with private land owners (which is called "buying stumpage"). We worked cutters hours, can-till-can't which is before sunup to after sundown. We never really made more than enough to raise the kids, buy new saws and maintain the equipment. Which was all of 3 skidders, 1 yarder and 1 dump truck.

Some said we were the fastest cutting company around but everybody said we were the neatest. We'd cut up all the brush and make it lie down nice, no saplings bent over every which say and we'd grade out the ruts. Because number one we loved the land and two because no land owner wants to see his land ravaged.

Big companies like Weyerhaeuser get access to federal lands for pennies, they left the place a scarred up mess, regrowth took to long, they didn't seen to care about errorsion control at the time atal. And they were shipping a lot of what was left of our good, slow-growth timer anyplace they could in the world. Including Japan and China.

THE WHOLE THING SUBSIDISED. EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

I think I'm with posters that say why should I care if we get cheap crap CDX ply? There's room for responsible forestry in the USA in perpetuity but "save the jobs" is increasingly MEANINGLESS with the level of automation in the industry now. As far as "the way of life", well that's been gone for a while now.

Remember that show "axe men"? You know, the guys who never used an axe and they never knew when anybody got hurt because they were busy yelling and screaming at each other like animals and running their machines over everything in sight? Those LOUTS who wouldn't be let in 50 feet of a skidder in our mountains?

That's what "the way of life" is today. Bunch of overgrown loudmouthed children with chainsaws.

Get your preps together! Learn historic food storage and preservation methods and the science that makes them work now, start saving money and the future

I would be worried of Chinese plywood

pallets made in China and sent to a small town in Ohio resulted in the Long Horn Asian Beatle invading the area. It buroughs into trees and essentially kills them. To solve the problem large sections of the county were clearcut. 90% of trees in one township were designated to be cut down. So much for free trade. Who do you sue for damages here? The culprits, ie the Chinese company, yeah that will work.

The Emerald Ash Borer

Is killing trees in Michigan, I have a whole section of my wood lot devastated by the little bastards. Thousands of dollars of straight quality Ash trees that are standing dead, it sucks. My Son calls the area "the dead wood forest". These insects came from Asia along with the Asian Carp and the Zebra Mussel that are destroying the Great Lakes. We can all bow down and worship free trade, but ignore the consequences at our own peril.

Multiple millions of dollars of damages, long term environmental damage to the largest fresh water lakes in the world, but as long as it doesn't show up on a corporate balance sheet it's ok.

http://emeraldashborer.info/#sthash.M4k9VD8X.dpbs

This drives me crazy, that prices do not reflect the true

cost of goods & services such as those that cost a fortune in environmental damage - whether cheap imports that bring insect infestations; or the latest computer, phone, or electronic toy that will cause the millions of (toxic) old ones to be dumped.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Exactly right

Not only the environmental damage here, but also in the foreign countries where the goods are manufactured. China, Mexico just to name a couple of countries that have extensive air and water pollution which wouldn't be tolerated in the more developed countries. There are other hidden costs to the people that no one seems to want to acknowledge that are caused from "free" trade.

You make an excellent point, how can the true price of these costs be reflected in the end product?

Yeah, that's the question. How?

Think it might change the supply & demand curves a bit?
http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

I think of it every time I see #@$@%^&*$ GARLIC in a supermarket - a food staple like garlic - that AMERICA now unnecessarily IMPORTS.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11613477

The U.S. gov't wants to BAN WOOD STOVES in even remote areas of ALASKA because of pollution but has NO PROBLEM with (either the loss of American jobs or) POLLUTION caused by SHIPPING FOOD STAPLES from China. See Environmental impact of shipping." ~ ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_shipping

And that's the *good news*. It's WORSE when food is transported by air. Those people wanting to ban wood stoves are the same ones claiming humans at least contribute to climate change, YET don't care about (the loss of American jobs or) TONS of CO2 emitted by planes. See: Food miles: How far your food travels has serious consequences for your health and the climate." http://food-hub.org/files/resources/Food%20Miles.pdf

Recently I told the grocery clerk I wouldn't buy the loose garlic in the bin because it wasn't grown in the United States. He stooped down and from this out-of-the-way produced a package that was. Gr-r-r-r. Thank you! I wonder WHAT was promised to China, WHY, and by WHOM. Our founders would find this all surreal. I certainly do.

SUPPORT THE SLOW FOOD MOVEMENT! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Food

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

I posted this on DP a while back

http://www.dailypaul.com/168897/sun-tzus-art-of-war

There is an economic war going on with China, they can't compete with our military so they are fighting with a different strategy. As our industrial capacity is depleted, our nations economy is at risk of a catastrophic fail. They bring in American/international corporations with the bait of big profits, who in turn lobby congress. Congressman with the lone objective to get reelected go where the money is, that influence is damaging and not in our interest. China now controls a huge amount of our nations debt, the old adage that the "debtor is slave to the lender is still true".
Right after WWII, Stalin said, "the war was won due to Americas industrial capacity", well, we don't even make textiles here anymore.

We should trade freely only with countries who have the same business ethics we have, and not trade, without tariffs, with countries that don't.

The same standards in terms of

of dumping/monopolistic practices, worker safety, environmental protection, human rights such as via our Constitution... We could either get rid of them openly and honestly here in the United States IF that's what Americans want; or we can do it the way we're doing it now, slowly by default. Supporting communist countries at the same time as weakening our own that touts freedom will only quicken the process. I don't know much about warfare, but I do get the point.

The Chinese professor ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSQozWP-rM

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

That's a classic, as true now as it was several years ago

I think we basically agree, thanks

.

protectionism isn't the answer. it harms consumers by requiring they pay more and props up otherwise unfit businesses.

the government shouldn't be granting privileges to anyone.

As long as we don't buy Chinese plywood with more debt

I'd be fine with it. But we are buying it with more debt, so I'm not.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

.

Everything you buy is purchased with debt. Dollars are literally debt. Are you buying American goods with gold or something? You'd be paying for Chinese plywood with the same currency.. only less of it. What are you talking about?

Protectionism

The Chinese practice managed trade, not fair trade. They manipulate their own currency to make their exports more attractive. "Dumping" products to capture the manufacturing base and/or the market for a product is a form of fraud, and fraud is something the government is duty bound to PROTECT us from. Protecting INDIVIDUAL rights is a founding concept of the republic. The founders were protectionists.
Also...The period following the Civil War up until WW1, the American economy boomed and we overtook England as the world's most powerful economy. This was a period of protectionism that also gave us 10 republican presidents.
The Chinese are protectionist and communist. Slavery is practiced in China. Some of their chickens have four drumsticks. Reacting to their protectionist, fraudulent practices by foolishly adhering to an ideology driven, self defeating practice that the misinformed call FREE TRADE, is an exercise in futility that ends in economic suicide.
Until the day that free trade can be practiced equitably, I say, PROTECTIONISM today, Protectionism tomorrow, and protectionism forever! (Apologies to George Wallace.)

“...taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes”
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

Even Ronald Reagan in the 1980s stepped in to protect the

Harley Davidson Motor Company. He was not only for free trade but also for fair trade. The foreign countries are playing the USA for suckers. One industry after another has been outsourced, wake up America.

.

Ronald also said he was a conservative. Problem is, he loved to spend money. Worse yet, he loved to run the printing presses to spend that money.

But this is an excellent example of crony capitalism.

In the early eighties, Harley-Davidson claimed that Japanese manufacturers were importing motorcycles into the US in such volume as to harm or threaten to harm domestic producers. After an investigation by the US International Trade Commission, President Reagan imposed in 1983 a 45% tariff on imported bikes and bikes over 700 cc engine capacity. Harley-Davidson subsequently rejected offers of assistance from Japanese motorcycle makers. However, the company did offer to drop the request for the tariff in exchange for loan guarantees from the Japanese.

So the admin slapped on a 45% excise tax on Japanese bikes. Who does that hurt? People that preferred the Japanese bikes. Way to go.

But let that first sentence sink in. Harley thought the Japanese were importing so many bikes to harm their business. But...... Did people HAVE to buy them? Hell no. They bought them because they felt they were either superior or a better deal.

So what really happened? Harley used their connections in the US Federal government to stop consumers from being able to purchase a product in the fear that they could not compete.

So you had voluntary trade happening, then a company solicited the federal government to stop that commerce and you think that's a good thing? Well I call it immoral and gangster and say no government has the right to say what anyone may do with their own money.

No sacred cows. The government has no place promoting or impeding trade.

I might agree with your comments here if

the domain we were talking about were the United States of America. It would appear you are not against the redistribution of wealth from the United States to, for one, a communist superpower such as China. That is, our self-destruction.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

.

redistribution of wealth consists of the government forcefully taking your money and giving it to someone else. something entirely different.

though, ironically, that's what protectionism does indirectly. it's corporate welfare. it removes competition from the market and the consumer gets screwed. it removes his choices and forces money into places it would otherwise not go.

voluntary trade requires no coercion and thus does not fit the description as "redistribution of wealth". in this case, the american consumers wanted japanese bikes, otherwise the japanese wouldn't have bothered investing the capital to make and ship them here.

the high price of labor (esp union labor) and regulations here are what causes these businesses to head over seas. it's no communist conspiracy.

besides, who are you to say what kind of bike anyone should have been able to purchase in the 80's? or anytime for that matter. it ain't your money therefore it is none of your business.

the government stuck it's gun in the belly of every person in the market for a bike and said "give me 45% of your purchase or go buy a bike you like less, or do without."

man, all these small government conservatives sure love using the federal government when it suits their purpose. constitution be damned. so much for decentralization, free trade and individual rights.

and that is our destruction.

I consider that it is my business as an American who

wants to see this country thrive, namely, as a sovereign nation. And yes, I'm a small government conservative who has no problem with the federal gov't when it suits "my" purpose ~ to preserve the country. It would appear you're a globalist. I'm not. Therein lay the difference.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

.

We'll you'd fit in right well in the British Parliament. But I say Horse puckey!

Just another justification why I should have to pay more for every damned thing under the sun because it came from the wrong side of some imaginary line.

"Dumping" means US consumers enjoy lower prices. Thus have more money they can save and do with as they please. It's why I go to Harbor Freight instead of Lowe's to buy 90% of my tools.

And SOME of the founders favored protectionist practices. But Jefferson and the anti-federalists (to my knowledge) and even some of the federalists did not. The ones that wanted the federal government picking which industries to protect were also in favor of close diplomatic ties to the British and even a central bank like Hamilton. It was even listed as a grievance..

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world

But maybe I'm wrong. Show me where the "founding fathers" unanimously agreed that British mercantilism was preferable to free men engaging in voluntary exchange.

Protecting individual rights was indeed a founding concept. However, there is no natural right to employment in a domestic industry that can't compete in a global market. Natural rights do however imply a right to engage in contracts. Which is what you are suggesting I shouldn't be able to do.

You're confused about what constitutes fraud. Fraud implies deceit especially in contracts. You're sweeping use of the term renders it entirely meaningless. At this rate we can also use the term "fraud" to mean "Pancakes and sausages."

Also, all that manipulation (esp currency manipulation) you attribute to China, well the US engages in all the exact same manipulation via our very own communist central bank..

Now, you really don't want to start bashing the Chinese for "manipulation" when we've been enjoying a dollar backed by military force. Which has been a far, far, far, far, far worse blight upon humanity than anything the Chinese are responsible for. Can you say Iraq? Libya? Saudi Arabia? It's known as the 'petro-dollar' and it's explained below.. but the implications of this policy have been left out for brevity. Suffice to say, none of them are thanking us for liberating them or propping up/installing their dictators.

minutes 1:37-4:30 so you don't have to watch the whole thing if you don't want.

It's ironic really.. You're sitting here, undoubtedly enjoying the benefits of the Chinese lower-middle class that's being looted via Chinese inflation with a million products they made likely sitting in your own home and simultaneously cursing them for being unscrupulous. Well, don't worry. It won't be like this for much longer.

So, To Hell with the Crown! Viva! Low Prices!


http://youtu.be/lLCEUpIg8rE

P.s. could you toss me a link showing china still has slaves? I'd like a reputable source.

Hey Dice?

Perhaps you (or any other DP'er) would care to debate me on my radio program?
Monday evening at 9:00PM EST WVLT 92.1 In Phila. area or gallantly streaming on WVLT.COM
Call in number: 856-696-0092

My email: WSHIELDS@COMCAST.NET

“...taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes”
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man