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Got Plywood? NWO Kills U.S. Plywood Industry Jobs. Denies Petition To Stop Chinese Plywood Dumping

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2014/01/02/101306497-186194599r.530x298.jpg?v=1388691385

Dumping petition rejected

In September 2012, Columbia and five of its competitors, representing about 80 percent of the hardwood plywood made in the United States, formed the Coalition for Fair Trade of Hardwood Plywood and filed a petition with the U.S. International Trade Commission to put a stop to Chinese dumping.
"The reality is our folks are getting crushed by the Chinese practices," Welch said.
Welch testified before the ITC this past September, urging it to impose tariffs on Chinese plywood imports to ensure a "level playing field."
In its decision to vote against the coalition's petition, the ITC cited growth in the U.S. hardwood plywood industry from 17.2 percent of the market in 2010 to 22.7 percent in the first half of 2013. The ITC also maintained the Chinese, while supplying some 35 percent of the market, supplied only the low-end product — plywood used for interiors, backs and drawer bottoms of cabinets — "while the domestic product is used for cabinet fronts and sides."

I guess Obama Barracchio lost his Laser Focus on Jobs.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101306473?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity



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Missing the big picture.....

Re: "Dumping" means US consumers enjoy lower prices........

Ever hear about the high cost of low prices?

Dumping is now only legal because of NAFTA policy.

The big picture is, yeah you get low prices UNTIL they use those low prices to squash out all the competition. Then the low prices create "The monopoly men" and presto=changeo NO MORE LOW PRICES......

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

Dumping

>>>"Dumping" means US consumers enjoy lower prices. Thus have more money they can save and do with as they please. It's why I go to Harbor Freight instead of Lowe's to buy 90% of my tools.<<<

Yea. I've been to HF. The cheap, inferior products they sell quickly end up back in China as scrap iron and metals. A complete waste of time and money. Couple that with the loss of American manufacturing, and one wonders how gullible the American people can be.

>>>But maybe I'm wrong. Show me where the "founding fathers" unanimously agreed that British mercantilism was preferable to free men engaging in voluntary exchange.<<<
Why would I even attempt to "show" you something like that. It's not a point I ever considered, and has nothing to do with my post.

>>>You're confused about what constitutes fraud. Fraud implies deceit especially in contracts. You're sweeping use of the term renders it entirely meaningless. At this rate we can also use the term "fraud" to mean "Pancakes and sausages."<<<

Here's the fraud. You bite on low prices, and cooperate with my dumping scheme. The people we both dupe end up working in the service industry for 10 dollars an hour after they lose their good paying manufacturing jobs as a result of the dumping scheme. The fraud is that dumping is good. By the way, the price goes up after the market is captured.

>>> Also, all that manipulation (esp currency manipulation) you attribute to China, well the US engages in all the exact same manipulation via our very own communist central bank..<<<

>>> Now, you really don't want to start bashing the Chinese for "manipulation" when we've been enjoying a dollar backed by military force. Which has been a far, far, far, far, far worse blight upon humanity than anything the Chinese are responsible for. Can you say Iraq? Libya? Saudi Arabia? It's known as the 'petro-dollar' and it's explained below.. but the implications of this policy have been left out for brevity. Suffice to say, none of them are thanking us for liberating them or propping up/installing their dictators.<<<

Oh. We are just as bad! They did it too!! (insert "two wrongs" cliché here.)

Bashing the Chinese for manipulation? No that's just one thing I would bash them for. Eating dogs is another.

>>>P.s. could you toss me a link showing china still has slaves? I'd like a reputable source<<<

Wow. Not only do you want something for cheap, you want me to work for you...for free. You could simply google "slavery in China" and read 1000 links there on the subject, choosing your own on the veracity meter. Since I'm feeling charitable today here's your link:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1635144,00...

BTW, making assumptions about the provenance of my household items is somewhat arrogant. One wonders what a house filled with cheap Chinese products looks like. Sure to make the cover of Better Liberals Homes and Gardens. Look at all my cheap stuff!! I don't have a job anymore, but LOOK...look at all my cheap stuff!!

“...taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes”
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

.

Let's get one thing straight, the government's only legitimate role is to protect my life, liberty and property. Stopping me from engaging in voluntary trade does not fall under any of those categories but instead opens the door wide open for complete centralized control of the economy. In advocating the government arbitrarily declare what is a "fair" price instead of me doing so with my own money, you're advocating tyranny.

Yea. I've been to HF. The cheap, inferior products they sell quickly end up back in China as scrap iron and metals. Funny. Mine lasted me. I guess I really got screwed paying 1/2 of what Lowe's was asking.

Why would I even attempt to "show" you something like that. It's not a point I ever considered, and has nothing to do with my post. You said "The founders were protectionists." I said few of them were, to my knowledge but certainly not all. The ones that were also thought the revolution should be undone by aligning the US with the UK diplomatically. But if you had links to prove otherwise, that would be nice.

Here's the fraud. You bite on low prices, and cooperate with my dumping scheme. The people we both dupe end up working in the service industry for 10 dollars an hour after they lose their good paying manufacturing jobs as a result of the dumping scheme. The fraud is that dumping is good. By the way, the price goes up after the market is captured.

Lol the reason you lost your "good paying manufacturing job" is because of the high price of your labor. If you can't compete, tough cookies. I don't want to pay 20x for shit so you can enjoy a higher paying manufacturing job instead of a job in the service industry.

I don't accept that as being "fraudulent". Manufacturing has left this country for two reasons, government regulation and the high price of labor. One drives the other. You want to blame someone for pushing your job over-seas it might be good to start looking in towards domestic entities.

By the way, if the prices go up afterwards then the entire American continent just enjoyed extreme low prices for a short period of time. The moment the Chinese jacked up their prices the factory would be competitive again. You say, "But the factory is closed." But it still stands. Surely it can be operational again. Perhaps under a new owner. Let's even imagine he's one of those dirty China-men, named "He Yu Woo." Proud new owner of "American Plywood Co." with the odd new hammer and sickle logo, he still has to hire Americans.. he's not going to ship in slave-child labor. And he's still going to pay taxes to the United States Federal, state and local governments.

But this is all nonsense. If the "American Plywood Co." was in such poor financial condition to be eliminated because the Chinese made plywood that would cost me $16 a sheet instead of $18 a sheet then he deserved to get knocked out anyhow.

To give the monopoly of the home market to the produce of domestic industry … must, in almost all cases be either a useless or a hurtful regulation. If the produce of domestic industry can be bought there as cheap as that of foreign industry, the regulation is evidently useless. If it cannot it must generally be hurtful.

That it was the spirit of monopoly which originally both invented and propagated this [protectionist] doctrine cannot be doubted; and they who first taught it were by no means such fools as they who believed it. In every country it always is and must be the interest of the great body of the people to buy whatever they want of “se who sell it cheapest The proposition is so very manifest, that it seems ridiculous to take any pains to prove it; nor could it ever have been called in question had not the interested sophistry of merchants and manufacturers confounded the common sense of mankind.

-Adam Smith

The “sophistry” of which Smith speaks is in essence that being advanced today by protectionists: “The U.S. is a high-wage country; its industry is unable to compete with that in low-wage countries; imports are increasing, and unless remedial measures are adopted, our industries will be destroyed and large-scale unemployment will ensue.” The Future of Freedom Foundation

Oh. We are just as bad! They did it too!! (insert "two wrongs" cliché here.) The point is if your country is engaged in the worst manipulation and responsible for the worst human suffering in the history of mankind and then you want to complain about the Chinese lower-middle class getting looted so you can have a 20 pack of .99 Bic pens, that makes you a hypocrite. Fix what's wrong in your own country first.

Bashing the Chinese for manipulation? No that's just one thing I would bash them for. Eating dogs is another. Sounds like you're just stuck in 50 year old cold war propaganda. Who gives a shit what they eat? The French eat Pigeons. Who cares?

Wow. Not only do you want something for cheap, you want me to work for you...for free. You could simply google "slavery in China" and read 1000 links there on the subject, choosing your own on the veracity meter. Since I'm feeling charitable today here's your link I did google it. First two pages turned up nothing but the fact that it was made illegal in 1910. Oh and the owner of the Brick Kiln in your Communist Time Magazine was sentenced to death. Funny, you made it sound like this was widely accepted and common practice by the Chinese people/government. I'm sure that was a mistake. No worries.

I'll also point out my own skepticism about communist western media here that hates the communist easterners as it's always blowing up these scare-stories to passively remind us how lucky we are to have child-labor laws, minimum wage laws, osha and "social safety nets".

I'd be willing to bet these were not "slave camps" at all but instead merely businesses not licensed by the State thus having to operate in the dark and draw the population that couldn't get jobs such as "mentally handicapped" and children from rural areas giving them money they would otherwise not have. Do I think this is possible in the Kiln example? Maybe. I also don't doubt that there is a human-trafficking operating in these places as you would expect. Though that would just add another layer of difficulty to your already incredibly difficult job of operating a factory under the nose of the Chinese government. But do I accept western media claims that China is a slave-lovin' country? Not hardly.

BTW, making assumptions about the provenance of my household items is somewhat arrogant. One wonders what a house filled with cheap Chinese products looks like. Sure to make the cover of Better Liberals Homes and Gardens. Look at all my cheap stuff!! I don't have a job anymore, but LOOK...look at all my cheap stuff!! You're being dishonest if you're suggesting you have nothing from over-seas in your home.

But since you successfully side-tracked me I'll allow Rothbard to dispose of your previous arguments one by one.

Whenever someone starts talking about "fair competition" or indeed, about "fairness" in general, it is time to keep a sharp eye on your wallet, for it is about to be picked.

http://mises.org/rothbard/protectionism.asp

From your Rothbard article

"During the day of the gold standard, a deficit in the national balance of payments was a problem". Oh, could that be, because you actually had to pay for those foreign goods?

Your economic theory is correct, in a perfect world. If we were dealing with real money, the trade problem would self correct, however we are not. As we are reaching astronomical levels of debt and trade deficits, the risk is a currency collapse. In the event of a hyperinflation of the currency, nothing will be imported, then what do we do?

Does Rothbard have anything on that?

.

wood doesn't disappear during hyperinflation. the system gets reset. resources are reallocated to more efficient channels. they're recycled. and the whole lattice-work of the economy rebuilds.

i say let it collapse. the petro-dollar has been a parasite for too long. if that's what it takes to reinstate sound money, so be it. it's unlikely to get solved any other way.

in the mean time, i don't support any efforts to screw me out of the last bit of money my family has by removing my most economical choices. not in motorcycles, dish-soap, plywood, clothing, food, nothing.

the endless array of hypothetical situations does not negate the fact that the government has no business dictating what i may or may not spend my money on and that includes eliminating my choices by protectionist tariff policies.

Most of what Harbor Freight

Most of what Harbor Freight sells is just fine. Some things I wouldn't buy there, like some of the power tools, I would spend a little more on quality. A Harbor Freight screwdriver accomplishes the same thing as a Snap-on one. To suggest otherwise is tool snobbery.

I just bought a tool cabinet there after thanksgiving for $150, and a comparable one at sears would have been a minimum $700.

It's why I go to Harbor

It's why I go to Harbor Freight instead of Lowe's to buy 90% of my tools.

Don't buy the router bits

I was running a brand new 1/2 bit in my 2HP, 25,000 RPM router, it snapped off, hit the floor, took out a chunk of concrete and ricocheted through the shop.

good points

but unless the tariff is specifically applied in terms of the market privilege actually given by China, so it's clear what the fee is being levied against, then there isn't a way to gain value from protectionism and things wont get better.

why in the hell would you

why in the hell would you want to stop plywood coming from china. i buy it all the time at homedepot and i hope it does not change. If it does then plywood prices would skyrocket and put a ton of companies who use cheap plywood in the hole. its not my problem the plywood mills here cannot compete with plywood mills all the way across the pacific LOL.

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MFN

Re: why in the hell would you want to stop plywood coming from china?

Re: its not my problem the plywood mills here cannot compete.......

You're missing the big pic.

China has slave labor and forest mismanagement policies that undercut our prices. We can't compete with that UNLESS we act the same way AND we ARE going there.

BUT actually the big, BIG pic is to depopulate this country altogether.

SEE the Agenda 21 depop maps.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

hey wearewinning....

Did you even see the word DUMPING when you read the original post? Cheating is not COMPETING.

“...taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes”
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

.

Hey tuntavern1775, did you see that was a Department of Commerce definition that says the federal government will determine what a "fair market price" is and not the consumer? How very progressive of you.

Your mangling of definitions confer powers not enumerated to the Federal government. Usurpations.

Your definition of "cheating" means the American consumer shouldn't be able to enjoy lower prices because politically connected people in DC know how we should spend our money better than we do.

Your position stinks of totalitarianism.

Hey dice

>>>Hey tuntavern1775, did you see that was a Department of Commerce definition that says the federal government will determine what a "fair market price" is and not the consumer? How very progressive of you.<<<

I'm sorry, dice, but respectfully...please re-write this so it is not misunderstood. I will then respond.

>>>Your mangling of definitions confer powers not enumerated to the Federal government. Usurpations.<<<

I'm not sure I understand this, but "mangling" seems like it belongs here. Perhaps you could explain this another way. Respectfully, I may respond. Seems like you were in a hurry.

>>> Your definition of "cheating" means the American consumer shouldn't be able to enjoy lower prices because politically connected people in DC know how we should spend our money better than we do.<<< Again...Oh, to hell with it.

>>>Your position stinks of totalitarianism.<<<

Finally! And how like Hemingway! Terse, splendidly vigorous yet concise. Perfection.

http://buchanan.org/blog/abolish-the-corporate-income-tax-5601

“...taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes”
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

lol

we have become lazy in innovation...well maybe all the regulation does not help neither...