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Why is there religious disdain for evolution?

Personally, I'm not a religious person, but I was raised going to church. As a child, I attended every Wednesday and Sunday and I listened to what the pastor and others involved with the church had to say. This post isn't intended to attack anyone's belief system. Rather I am interested in getting honest answers to an honest question.

Why is there so much religious disdain regarding the principles of evolution? And please, finish reading and genuinely consider what I have to say before hastily responding.

One thing I noticed from my experience with religion is that very few people take every story in the Bible literally. A good example is that of the Tower of Babel. The people wished to build a tower tall enough to peak into heaven. The story goes:

And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

If one were to take this seriously, would god have allowed the space program, for instance? What about the Hubble Space Telescope?

Given, that some of the stories cannot be taken absolutely literally (which does not forbid them from containing important philosophical lessons), why could evolution not be the creation tool used by god? Further, why should the timescales of a supernatural being be of the same duration as that of yours and mine? For instance, why couldn't 7 "god" days translate to billions of human years?

I recall the old saying, "God works in mysterious ways." Couldn't this be one of those instances? Are you privy to the exact methods used by god?

Do you believe in free will? For instance, do you believe that you could just quit doing anything at all and god would take care of you? Or, do you believe another adage, "God helps those that helps themselves" - which implies the existence of free will?

From considering the big picture, how is free will that much different from evolution? Both are questions of does god control everything absolutely with no wiggle room, or is there room for variation?

With the above in mind, why does evolution have to be incompatible with your religious faith?

Please respond honestly without flaming. Besides, flaming causes high blood pressure.

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Evolution or Creation?

We will all find out when we die.

If it's lights out, then Darwin may have been right.

If you see a bright light, then perhaps Creation theory is onto something.

If the bright light is red with pitchforks, I would approach with caution though.

In all honesty, even if we disregard the Torah, evolution seems like a crap theory, it really does.

Part of the theory of evolution is that South America was populated by monkeys who sailed across the Atlantic on makeshift rafts.

These same scientists also believe it is impossible that ancient Egyptians and Chinese could have sailed to South America.

Most scientists are idiots.

Downvoted with no reply

Either a coward or I musta pissed off one of those monkeys.

Michael Nystrom's picture

"Most scientists are idiots"

That's why I downvoted you. Can't speak for others.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

I like your style. Amazing

I like your style. Amazing how doctrinaire academics are today. No balls. We are approaching conditions where a new theoretical upset or paradigm shift is becoming impossible. People don't realize that science cannot flourish under just any conditions, but only under very favorable ones. Some non political areas of science aren't as bad as the politicized ones, but I sense a trend even there where thinking against paradigm is increasingly risky and without payoff.

Science = Interpreting facts to support status quo

That sums up about 90% of academia.

They have finally started using applied DNA technology to other sciences (such as archaeology and anthropology) and have made impressive advances in micro-engineering.

Medical 'science' is an unmitigated disaster, some cancer research advances, but of course with the fortune that is spent on it every year something had to happen eventually. The mess of drugs and vaccines hitting the shelves is an embarrassment.

Weather research? More of a joke than a science. At least the non-classified stuff. Climate prediction models, seriously? Ever view the probabilities of hurricanes on a vector map? How many possibilities within 3-4 hours? Now try 30 years. That's the claim of climate prediction models. Total junk science.

Interesting, your take on paradigm.
Comment more later.
End rant for now.
Jungle out.

Phillip Johnson wrote some

Phillip Johnson wrote some very interesting books on this topic. He points out that problems arise when the term 'evolution' is defined as to take on the particular philosophy of Naturalism (also known as Materialism). He discusses how scientist will often take methodological naturalism (the idea of science studying and explaining nature in naturalistic terms) and warp the discipline into acceptance of Naturalism as a philosophical worldview (nature is all there really is) something that science can neither prove nor disprove, necessarily. An example of this naturalism parading as science can be heard at the beginning of Carl Sagan's masterful miniseries "COSMOS". At the beginning of each installment we hear Sagan say, "The cosmos is all there is, was or ever will be." Or something to that effect. There is absolutely no scientific observation, procedure or experiment that can verify such a statement. It is philosophy, not science.
Johnson also discusses how the word 'evolution' changes definitions, sometimes by the same user within the space of the same discussion. The typical way this works is for the 'scientist' to define the term so broadly that no one would argue with it -- "Evolution simply means that living things on this planet have changed over time. This is an indisputable fact." But once the broad definition is conceded and the religious agree that indeed things have changed, then the word suddenly changes to include the ideas of common ancestry and that all the various complexities of life are the result of completely unguided, natural processes, from the first self replicating molecule to Mankind.

This is where the problem really resides, in my opinion.

Babel

"now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." Gen 11:6

Humans have struggled with the language barrier for millennia, and as we have come together what has been our legacy?

Nuclear war? GMOs? Massive fraud?

What have we learned? Intelligence without discretion can be crippling. "Nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." The language barrier may have helped delay the destruction of our planet and species for thousands of years.

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

If you want to find truth, lets start at one scientific fact

There are no stars in space, you cannot see them, you cannot see the sun. The sun is not a big ball of gas burning in the sky. The sun and stars are only visible through our atmosphere. The sun and the earth are both hollow in the center.

The majority of what people think they know is a lie. "Science" is considered "fact" in our society, until it is proven wrong. This is the problem I have with evolution, or any other >>theory<<. I would never say that God is absolute until I am proven wrong. In fact, it is often if I say that God does not exist that he shows Himself.

I am very religious, and I am because of what my researching has brought me to. If we want the answers we seek we must study.

But let's start somewhere interesting, if the sun is not a ball of burning mass? Where does the light come from?

The sun is a very good place to start, it has been in a cooling cycle since 1998, and it is currently the lowest temperature it has ever been, scientist say, since the dark ages.

I know a scientist who is not a Christian who says the sun is a transformer, that it draws its power from somewhere else, or from another dimension(which is how they also define electricity.)

This is just a start. A scientist in the early 2000's claimed evolution via DNA restructuring was impossible, that our DNA is the exact same as it has always been. It has never mutated.

While i could source(and I have many times here on these forums), the point I'm trying to make is science is ever changing, while creationism remains the same. The conclusion I have come to, is that many things in creationism are proven(while some are not) but it leads me to believe it could have happened. Many things in Evolution are proven, until they are proven otherwise, as more and more science emerges.

The only constant in this logic is creationism. That's one of the reasons I believe. I'm sure others have different viewpoints, and that's fine. These are just my opinions, based on my own researching.

In The Beginning......

"The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork"

They witness to a "Divine Creator"

The Bible goes into detail about this "Divine Creator"

One of the main themes throughout the entire Bible is the "accountability" of man and his actions, yes, even his every word and thought unto God.

Ungodly man cannot have that, and so they have come up with this unbelievably insane preposterous, utter ridiculous nonsense of something they call the "Big Bang" and all that followed, thus removing any though of God and His demands upon all flesh.

Evolution's main focus is to eliminate ALL belief in the Bible.
That is it's purpose!
There is NO other purpose for evolution no matter what these liars may say!

If evolutionist can do that, then there is no need whatsoever to believe in some book that is filled as they say, with fairy tales and lies and therefore the God written about within it's pages cannot be trusted or even believed to exist.

Evolution is a damned lie from the very pit of hell!
It mocks the very Word of God!

Let me say that again ... EVOLUTION IS A DAMNED LIE FROM THE VERY PIT OF HELL!

What a person thinks about the Bible, is what they think about the One who gave us that precious Book.

It was the Lord God Almighty that gave us His Book, that precious Book we who love, and trust it's every precept, call the Holy Bible, the very Word of God.

This Book, reveals to all mankind just how everything began and came into existence through the very power of the Word of God.

It tells us who God is, who we are, and what God expects of us, even demands from us.

It not only tells us how to live and love one another (pitifully as we do most times), it tells us the consequences if we do not do those things God commands.

It tells us of the fall of man and our sinful nature and that we cannot keep the Law perfectly and therefore are guilty of all our sins, and what we need if we are to be forgiven and given eternal life.

That need is Jesus Christ the Lord!

This Jesus Christ the Savior, His life, His many works and miracles, His mercy, His atonement for sin is given us these accounts in this precious Book from God so that all who would read, listen to the Word, believe on His Word of Truth might be saved!

It tells us not only how everything began, but how everything will end!
Everything did NOT begin with a so called "Big Bang" but...it surely will end with a "Big Bang" as it is written in the 2nd epistle of Peter chapter 3 verse 10:

"But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night werein the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up"

It is the Book of Truth!

It is written "EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE"

From beginning to end, it is God's Book, God's perfect plan of salvation through Jesus Christ His Son, the Way, the Truth and the Life for all who come unto Him seeking forgiveness.

To put this so called "Big Bang" of evolution as the beginning of all things is to openly and willingly deny the very God of the Bible and the Christ who gave Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice for all who would believe on Him AND His Word and to call God a liar.

Those accepting evolution over the Bible and that turn not away from that damnable lie, and do not turn unto the Almighty, WILL BE DAMNED FOREVER!

The Good News of the Bible is that you can be forgiven of ALL your sins if you will heed to the Word of God and turn from your sins and turn to God and ask that Christ Jesus would be your Savior and give you a new heart and eternal life.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Word shall never pass away" saith the Lord Jesus Christ!

May some, if not many, come out of this very dark, wicked damnable devilish LIE of evolution and come into the glorious Light of Truth through the very Word of God.

Again:
It is written "Lying lips are an abomination unto the Lord"
It is written " ALL liars shall be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death"

Let these very telling words from the mouth of God shake you to your very core that you might fear His wrath to come and repent of your ways and turn unto Him while you still have the breath of life within you, lest you perish forever in your sins.

I am an ambassador for Christ, and speak the very Truth that has been commanded by God to share with all the world and so I do as do all His who are a true and faithful witness.

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

If it's already...

...all locked in place in that God chose Bill, Susan and Fred to inherit eternal life and for Bob, Betty and Tom to be eternally tormented without any hope from the get-go, why implore people to change? Are you thinking the journeys of the elect and the accursed throwaways will be made less painful or problematic as a result, despite their fates being locked in? Just a friendly question ...

GoodSamaritan's picture

Obeying the Great Commission

"why implore people to change?" is because followers of Jesus Christ are commanded in Mark 16:15 to "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation."

Christians are made participants in God's plan of salvation - responsible for preaching the Good News of peace with God through Jesus Christ - but since we don't know who are the Elect we have to "proclaim the gospel to the whole creation". Romans 10:17 tells us that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

I guess...

...what would happen if you didn't proclaim it? Would God still yank the strings as the puppeteer for the pre-determined outcomes no matter what?

GoodSamaritan's picture

The Gospel has been proclaimed from the beginning

going all the way back to Genesis 3:15 when God told Adam and Eve that He would one day send a Savior. The Lord says in Isaiah 55:11:

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

So I would say that God has proclaimed the Gospel as the preincarnate Christ, as the incarnate Christ, and through those whom He indwells as the Holy Spirit. This plan is His and His will shall be done, with or without us.

It is a blessing that He has chosen to do it with us and through us.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

I see...

Just to be clear, the proclamation of the Gospel (that 'good news, which is for all people') is important to me as well -- not meaning to dis that. :) Even from the view I have, where God will succesfully reconcile all of His creatures over time, I see it as important to be on that path of reconciliation sooner rather than later (the day of salvation is now), since I don't want the joys of being reconciled and at peace with the God Who is Love to be postponed for anyone. And the flip side of that is that the journey will be rougher, the wandering in the wilderness more severe, the longer we put it off.

Just wasn't sure if the Calvinist sees a similar benefit, at least for their smaller set of elect they propose. (The sooner, the better for x, y and z reasons).

GoodSamaritan's picture

Perhaps from our perspective sooner is better than later

I'm not certain how to comment on that because I was born again by the age of 5. My wife, OTOH, was saved in her mid-twenties after a life of gross sin. She probably has a better appreciation for what she was saved from. So I don't have any memory of life in the "wilderness" as an unbeliever. I suspect that many believers wish they had been saved at an earlier age, but I believe that God saves not only who but when. His timing for everything is perfect so I extend that to our appointed time for salvation as well.

Yes, I see benefit in having the assurance of eternal life as soon as possible so we have more time to grow in spiritual maturity while in this world. The longer a Christian lives the more time he or she has to become like Christ. Compared to eternity, though, this mortal life is a blink.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

From a more literalist-y point of view

Hi there,

I lean more Baptist in my theology, and have listened to people like Dr. Kent Hovind (fellow freedom fighter) since becoming a Christian.

There are two different ways of looking at the world. One can look and say, "Look at what millions and millions of years have done to the grand canyon." While I would look at the same canyon and say, "Wow, Noah's flood must have been devestating."

How fast can a canyon form? http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_sa_r04/

We wholeheartedly agree on microevolution - this can be observed, but the changes that occur never change the kinds of animals that are changing. This is fact.

However, we disagree on:
Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
(These 4 are all based on faith, not observation. Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.)

So there you go, from a more literalist point of view.

I believe God does allow for evolution among living organisms

Christians are against the idea of evolution as the secular world describes it.

Evolution has two different scientific definitions

Darwin made popular the notion that evolution was, BOTH, a cross-species mutative process, AND as a cause within each species for the varietal mutations and adaptions we can observe.

Creationists and intelligent-design folks recognize that all the fossils and bones give us only evidence of change within each species, and so refuse to use the term, "evolution", without distinguishing from Darwin's scientifically unsupported fairy-tale.

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

Not all Christians are creationists

Please be specific about which groups follow that idealogy.

All True "Born Again" Christians are creationists!

You simply cannot have the Holy Spirit of the Living God indwelling you and at the same time believe in a damnable, satanic lie such as this thing called evloution!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

You know what they say about opinions...

everyone has one and they all stink. Glad you clarified that...I'm plain old Christian. I do not feel the need to be "reborn". If God created us once, why should I second-guess his creation with a do-over?

Well then I suggest this

Ron Paul in steering Mayor Rudy Guliani into truth about the 9/11 attacks gave him some books to read as a lesson about "Blowback".

I too want to give you a reading lesson to help you along your way to understanding about being a real "Christian" or just a "professing Christian" and the need for being reborn.

A real Christian is one who loves the Lord Jesus Christ above all things, wholly believes and loves the Word of God, reads it daily for the most part, studies it and prays for wisdom in better understanding it, and the things of eternity are far more important to them than anything here on this sin cursed earth and therefore we live differently than those who are not of God.... Very differently!

A "professing Christian" simply goes through the motions and before long show themselves to be as the Pharasises who were hypocrites and loved the praises of men more than the praises of God and they love the things of the world and just can't seem to get enough of it.

They simply don't have the heart to follow God and the things of God for very long because they are not of God!

You show yourself as one who knows very little about what is in the Bible and thus this lesson:

Now, for your lesson about what it takes to be a REAL TRUE Christian I want you to read the Gospel of John chapter 3 and see what Jesus Christ says about what you need to do if you are to be a real Christian which by the way is the ONLY Christian that will ever enter heaven.

Get back to me when you have a change of thought about not feeling the need to be reborn OK?

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

christians - (in general)

Christians in general would be against the notion of evolution as the scientific world describes it. Not talking about you.

IF as you say....

'that some of the stories cannot be taken absolutely literally' then what is the point of fretting about this book? It would be no more important than any other book by Dr. Phil or some other author who has 'good things to say'.

Personally if I thought there were phony stories in the Bible - I wouldn't give the Bible another thought or God another thought - I'd do my own thing in life. Because if there are phony stories in the Bible then God must be a big phony and a lie himself - like telling children that Santa Clause is real.

The Bible itself...

...though says (Romans 1):

19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.

20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

But you're saying that your whole confidence in God rests on a complete, undistorted copy of the Scripture? Surely the light of conscience and of Creation should tug you to consider theism as a possibility, regardless? Many in history have not had the luxury of a full, undistorted Bible: and yet many have lived by faith, with the light they were given.

All the light we've been given, eh?

I love this question, because it brings up, by deflection, the glaring contrast of what we now know, by attempting to plead the case of defending less-knowing folks from an overly-harsh sentence being given them, when certain written words were unknown.

What is really being asked is, if THEY can plead to a lesser charge, before God, and, somehow, get a lesser penalty for not knowing as much as we know; then maybe WE can find a way to plea bargain ourselves down, despite our being confronted with all WE have available to read AND conscientiously discern?

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

It all...

...boils down to God in His wisdom discerning the individual's heart response by faith as being that of a person on the trajectory of reconciliation through the Gospel. Even if particular details of how the engine or moving parts of the Gospel function, under the hood, have been more or less obscure to different people in different times and places, we still see that the faith of an Abram, who heard and felt the tug to leave his home and follow, is 'credited as righteousness.' The same basic faith decision of leaving the old and embracing the new in response to the call of God applies regardless of our particular knowledge. All are 'without excuse'.

Personally, I see this process of calling and reconciliation extending into the age to come, and that we are not privy to a lot of the details of the inner process for each individual. Consider the mentally disabled, for example. We see people locked in physical/mental cages from our perspective; but we don't see the spiritual communications that may be occurring now at another level, or that may occur in the age to come after they are freed from these earthly chains.

Christ himself taught in parables

Why should we think the his inspired words don't contain parables too?

Jesus and his apostles spoke of a LITERAL, "Beginning"

A parable is a specific form of writing or speech, and is defined as such in scripture. Please help, Mike, to us find which of these verses describing, "the beginning", are parabolic, and which are meant to be plainly read and perceived?

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," Matthew 19:4

"He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:8

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Matthew 24:21

"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."
Mark 10:6

"For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be." Mark 13:19

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
)The same was in the beginning with God." Joh 1:1,2

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Joh 8:44

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" Ephesians 3:9

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Colossians 1:18

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" Hebrews 1:10

"And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." 2 Peter 3:4

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" 1 John 1:1

"I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." 1 John 2:14

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" Revelation 3:14

"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." Revelation 21:6

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Revelation 22:13

"PAR'ABLE, n. L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another. A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judges 9.; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam. 12.; the parable of the ten virgins, Matt.25." Noah Webster 1828

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

another angle to consider

Could it be that God wasn't punishing the builders of the tower for constructing a tower to heaven but that he was punishing them for their arrogance and their own exaltation?

They seemed like brilliant people and if they had one language - I wonder what those people would've accomplished had God allowed them to continue?

In order to break up their union he confounded the languages so that the people could no longer communicate effectively with one another and thus thwarting their own abilities - sort of like dowsing a fire with water.

So with that said - to the OP's question it's not that God is against us going to space - if that were the case there would be some calamity or roadblock that keeps us from leaving the atmosphere of earth.
I believe one cannot factor that logic into the question of the Tower of Babel. There was obviously some other factor as to why God confounded the languages and I believe it was due to their arrogance and NOT because God was/is against man going to space.