30 votes

Marijuana & the 2nd Amendment

How can you support my possession of a dangerous weapon but not my possession of a substance that makes me less likely to use it? It’s a question that needs to be answered by every pro-2nd amendment sheriff, pastor, politician and citizen who associate themselves with the conservative movement.

I’m not going to bring up numbers, statistics or studies. This is a very simple issue. Guns kill. Marijuana chills. Oh, and by the way, I’m probably one of the biggest gun rights proponents out there. The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, more guns lower the crime rate and it’s crucial that the people own guns to keep a tyrannical government in check. That is what I truly believe.

Now to the topic of marijuana. Whether you’ve used it or not doesn’t matter. We are talking about rights here. Rights of the people vs. interests of the government. When you understand that the government is largely bought and paid for by corporations (including the pharmaceutical industry) you can figure out why they’d be interested in keeping it illegal. At some level, you need to get to the point where you agree that people have the right to treat their own medical ailments. Back to rights. Crap. Kind of like the rights people have to defend their home and loved ones with a firearm. Believing that you have to go to the doctor to feel better would be like believing that you need to go out and find a cop to defend your family while a burglar is kicking in the door. I used the words “feel better” for a reason. I think we can agree that most medications prescribed today are intended to help us “feel better” about our condition, not put an end to the condition itself. The people at the top of the pharmaceutical industry aren’t stupid. You are worth a lot more money sick than you are healthy and they can prescribe you a lot more anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medications if you’re not using marijuana. You’re not going to use marijuana unless you feel like you need it. Just like you’re not going to go to the doctor unless you feel like you need to. And do I even need to bring up the issue of side effects? Consume some marijuana and you may feel somewhat loopy…I don’t have enough room to list all the side effects from what we consider “conventional” medications but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard death mentioned on some of those TV ads.

But let’s get back on topic. If you haven’t made the connection between the 2nd Amendment, marijuana legalization and rights yet then maybe you never will. You might not want to. You may be perfectly happy fighting for your right to own a firearm but not for the right of someone who wants to fire one up to feel better about losing his job. It’s a selfish thought process when we exalt our rights over the rights of others. Even if there was no 2nd Amendment you would still have the right to have a gun to defend yourself. You don’t get your rights from the government. You get them from God. Whether or not you agree with someone using marijuana doesn’t matter. Plenty of people don’t agree with you owning a weapon.

The point is this: You cannot legislate your beliefs on other people and expect different treatment for yourself. Responsible gun owners have more in common with responsible marijuana users than either side can fathom. We cannot allow the media or politicians to pit us against each other in a struggle for rights. We must acknowledge that all rights are equal as long as me exercising my rights doesn’t infringe on you exercising yours.



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"Guns kill."

Or..."guns protect life."

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
www.tattoosbypaul.com
www.bijoustudio-atx.com

I live in Washington state

We've got guns and pot. All perfectly legal.

"You’re not going to ..."

"You’re not going to use marijuana unless you feel like you need it. "

Oh, bullsquirt. I, and I'm reasonably confident millions of others, use it because we like it. It's a euphoriant. It makes you happy. It makes you goofy. It makes everything more fun. It's a sacrament to Mother Earth.

The bloodthirsty warmongers fear and hate it because it makes us peaceful, and Big Pharma fears it and the actual drugs (MJ isn't a drug - it's at most, an herb) because they can't make the big bucks off it. The Government hates it because the Government hates Liberty.
And the Puritans hate it because it's a euphoriant, and to them, pleasure is a sin.

The War on drugs is Bad, m'kay?

Don't Comply! Nullify!

Freedom is my Worship Word!

Pro-2A Potheads

Maybe we should form a new group, call it potheads with guns or something. ;-) I don't currently own a gun, but I'm a staunch Constitutional absolutist, and I'm a pothead.

I think this confuses people.

Another thing I think might confuse people is that I believe that God created us by way of evolution. ;-D

(well, technically, evolution turned the clay into a biological mechanism that could support life, then Spirit animated it.) Animals are technically alive, but they are, in fact, meat. :-)

By the way, write me in in 2016!

Not all People of the Gun have the reefer madness; I also hang out at http://thetruthaboutguns.com and I think most of them are pretty much neutral on the issue - they're not heads, but they're not warriors either. And I think most of them understand that stoners know better than to shoot stoned.

But I have a handy thing for the self-righteous: "Remind me again, which of the 18 Enumerated Powers is it that authorizes Congress to throw people into iron cages for smoking dried flowers?"

Freedom is my Worship Word!

A perfectly lucid and

A perfectly lucid and eminently precise statement of the extant framework in our country. Rights of marijuana use and self defense are illustrative of rights overall, not all inclusive. Those who want to kill use guns to do so is what I felt you meant with; “Guns kill.” Your writing reenforces the wide spectrum of my beliefs. The convergence of needing to go to a doctor for relief and the notion you can not relieve yourself via marijuana well illustrates the dilemma of our times, perpetuated by congressional adherence to pharmaceutical lobbying. Repealing the laws denying rights and keeping the Bill of Rights ones effective are the goals I come away with after reading your piece. Those are mine too. Many thanks.

"Guns Kill"

Actually, guns save more lives than they take. The Lamestream Media don't tell you about the thousands of defensive gun uses every day, because they don't fit Bloomie's narrrative.

Hayul, man, CARS kill thousands, and that's not even what they're designed for! But nobody's calling for a background check before you can buy a car!

It's not about guns or drugs, it's about control.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

I am not arguing one way or

I am not arguing one way or the other, but I do want to question your assertion that marijuana chills. Is there no link between marijuana and increased paranoia in some people? I have personally experienced paranoia back in the day.

Like I said, I am not arguing one way or another, or looking for a justification to deny someone their rights. I am just playing devil's advocate here, perhaps my nitpicking with allow you to refine your arguments for the future.

"increased paranoia"

Yeah, so what? That couldn't possibly be from fear of getting caught, could it? </sarc> And even if so, so what? What do you care if I'm paranoid? How is that any skin off your nose?

Freedom is my Worship Word!

I couldn't care less if you

I couldn't care less if you get paranoid, I was taking issue with the post laying out a blanket statement like marijuana chills everyone out. I believe the point being made was that a person was less of a danger with a gun because they would be chilled out.

I do not agree from personal experience that marijuana is a blanket chill pill for everyone all the time. Marijuana strains vary, as well as how different people's body chemistry processes the drug. I was previously very very clear about it before, I am not advocating one way or the other about depriving someone a firearm. I am simply taking exception to the MYTH that marijuana is a chill pill. Hollywood movies do not equate to reality.

Marijuana has both stimulant and depressant results. Google it.

ecorob's picture

oh, my Lord!

So, what?
If that is the case for you,then you should choose not to partake!
I feel bad afterwards if I drink alcohol. The next morning is a bitch for me.
Does this mean we should outlaw alcohol for all people?
Seriously, dude. Worry about yourself and what YOU like and leave my rights alone.
Thank you. I hope this helps steer you TOWARDS making a stand for my rights and NOT being ambivilent. Being ambivilent, saying nothing, supports the prohibition.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Yeah you are paranoid.

Did I say anything at all about depriving a person of their firearms, or did I say MORE THAN ONCE I was taking issue with a specific point out of the whole post? I said twice I was not advocating a position, merely taking exception to a misconception.

I thought surely saying it twice would keep anyone from foolishly overreacting by reading too much into what I was saying. You have proved me wrong in my belief no one would be ignorant enough to miss my point.

Marijuana is not just a depressant drug, hence my taking exception to the author painting it as such. It does not chill everyone out. It also has stimulant properties. Search engine away my friend.

Should those stimulant effects be enough to deprive a person of a gun? You assumed I was implying it was.

I down voted you because of that whole "Gun kills" crap.

My guns which I have had for years have killed NO ONE. I hope they never need to in my hands. NEVER use one right to attack another right. In this case, it is attacking one right to defend another. That makes no sense either.

Keep on topic with Marijuana. It is another failed prohibition war that causes only massive suffering on people. It is time to end it, since you can't even keep prisoners from getting their hands on it.

I agree on an academic level...

that guns do not kill people. Not by themselves obviously. But sometimes you have acknowledge the oppositions' talking points in order to make your own. On the same note, "MJ chills" is inaccurate as well since it only "chills" if you use it in that capacity. Some people don't chill when they use it like the guy that posted earlier.

Freedom is dangerous. Alot of marijuana advocates are anti-2nd Amendment based on their opinion that guns kill. So if you acknowledge that but still defend their right to use MJ you can come to a compromise in favor of liberty for all.

And remember, the unloaded guns are the most dangerous.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. - Alexander Fraser Tyler

from der

guns

itzSteve's picture

Ironic

It's funny that you are connecting MJ with the 2nd Amendment. When you fill out the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) form, it asks you if you smoke weed...(question 11e)

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Of course it does...

They don't want the gun rights people and the MJ rights people getting together for the common cause of freedom.

THAT would be very dangerous!

edit: I also find it interesting how they ask if you are an "unlawful" user of marijuana.

I would like to ask the "Federal" Reserve if they are a lawful issuer of currency.

Is the ATF a lawful organization at all? HaHa

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. - Alexander Fraser Tyler

ATF Memo

ATF Memo 2011: http://www.atf.gov/files/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-o...

This ATF memo has led to problems for medical cannabis patients. For example, in Hawaii medical cannabis patients are registered with the state, supposedly in confidence. Hawaii requires procurement of a permit from Police before acquiring gun. (See Hawaii Revised Statutes 134-2) Supposedly these two registries are not cross-referenced, but patients are denied permit if they indicate cannabis use, medical or otherwise, or even having a medical cannabis card. Guns are routinely seized from residences wherein cannabis is found, even if a resident is a registered cannabis user. This kind of thing has happened in other states. I am aware of two cases in Oregon wherein sheriff denied registered cannabis patients concealed carry permits (because of memo), patients (from 2 different counties) sued and won, being granted permits on basis that simply having a medical cannabis registration doesn't mean one is using cannabis (though ruling didn't really address heart of ATF memo.) I suspect it's only a matter of time before some Hawaiian medical cannabis patient wealthy enough to sue his county takes up the cause, but until then, this situation has caused anxiety amongst gun owning patients, leading some to choose to not renew their cannabis registration, preferring to risk using cannabis covertly so they can use their guns overtly.

Retarded double standard continues...

Very well put

You have a lot of allies in this point of view.

Bull$#it

I'll start by saying that I too am a proponent of MJ legalization. BUT, your premise is crap. When you frame MJ use as a medical argument, you limit legalization to medical use only, like in CA. Instead, the focus should be on the victimless aspect of it. Like prostitution. Or alcohol. If someone wants to use it recreationally, they have to break a law to do so in CA. Not in CO. If you want to use medical uses as a benefit in arguments of those against it, go ahead, but the strongest, most sound, logical argument you can use is that someone smoking MJ in their own home causes no harm to anybody else. Nobody can argue against that! What they can do is show medical studies (yes, biased ones) that show no medical benefit from MJ use. They exist, and are at the least a crack in a strictly medical rights argument for legalization.

Second, 2a rights are completely unrelated. Please don't join them and take the risk of turning people against both because they are opposed to one. Also, guns don't kill. Not once has a loaded gun gone off without human interaction, causing a death. People kill, not guns. You would do well to leave that out of your argument.

You want MJ legalized? Don't look like a head when you argue or protest for it. Have a coherent argument with the most logically sound content you can muster. Be honest, and be willing to admit that it will be used recreationally. You can always use the MJ vs Alcohol comparison. One has serious side effects, the other does not. Use the fact that legalization will take funding from cartels. That it will reduce police, prosecution, and prison costs. Argue the fiscal side. Argue the freedom side (Correlate it to Bloomberg banning sodas because they are "bad"). Appeal to those you are arguing against.

And never, ever, tell someone that they should be fighting your fight if they are fighting their own. How to win friends and influence people and whatnot.

Final thought - MJ doesn't make people "chill". I can give you personally experienced/witnessed examples of violence occurring under the influence of MJ.

Sound argument

I like mine better: "Throw people into iron cages for smoking dried flowers" is NOT one of the 18 Enumerated Powers.

And, as we all know, an unconstitutional law isn't a law.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

marijuana doesnt make people chill?

wow-what kind of mj are you smoking?

Above all...

I appreciate the feedback. I'm looking into shooting a brief documentary on the topic. :)

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. - Alexander Fraser Tyler

I like your passion friend...

and we are on the same page. This isn't my only argument just one that I put together today as I was thinking about the issue. I definitely agree with the victimless crime argument that you can't be the victim and the perpetrator at the same time. I also agree that MJ is used recreationally and that's fine. But recreationally or not people only use it if they feel then need to, whatever the reason. The whole point I was trying to make with the 2nd Amendment issue is that oftentimes you see the Christian right and other conservatives very much behind gun rights but very much against other rights, like the right to consume MJ.

I could also compare it to the right to be a glutton at Golden Corral every Sunday after church and may make that case in the future. All I was attempting to do in this brief piece is to show the selfishness of 2nd Amendment people who refuse to fight for the rights of people they disagree with that are equally as important.

I took the medical angle because I thought it was valid - it's not the only angle that is valid.

I agree that it comes off abrasively and I wrote it that way intentionally to get people thinking. You're not wrong for encouraging me to take a more diplomatic approach and use more flowerly language. At the end of the day, though, it IS SELFISH to only support rights that you find important and not all basic human rights.

And while I recognize that you have seen people get violent after using MJ I think the consensus would be that it does make you "chill man..."

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. - Alexander Fraser Tyler

You missed my entire point

It's not thati think you should use my logic because it is more diplomatic or "flowery". You should not argue the medical issue because it isn't defensible. Period.

Best case scenario, you win and create a special class of citizen with special rights. The MMJ cardholder. They are immune from the law,but the law remains. If you don't have a legitimate medical use and want to smoke, you still must break the law. Either by lying to obtain a permit or by smoking without one. Why do we need more special interest groups?

Smoking weed is not a basic human right. What you put in your body is, but you aren't here arguing for cocaine legalization, just weed. Don't you see your own hypocrisy?

I wasn't just talking about what I've seen. I was also talking about what I've done. Violence, while lit. Because I was that kind of person, and intoxication reduced my self control. Drugs effect people in different ways. Some can't sit still. Some couch lock. Some zone. Some pass out. Some are fully functional and you would never know they just burned one in their car. Regardless of strain.

I guess the advise I was giving you is that you need to use a defensible position. You need to be realistic. And you need to be an adult, not some characture of what society thinks a pot head is. At least when you are trying to change the minds of people who think smoking pot is slightly less bad than having a a sexual relationship with another man.

The medical issue is just one part

of the freedom issue. I just brought that up as part of my analogy that people should have the freedom to treat themselves, comparing it to how we have the right to defend ourselves. Remember...

"Believing that you have to go get a doctor to treat an ailment is like believing you have to go get a cop when the burglar is kicking in your door."

It's a good metaphor and I stand behind it.

Oh, and I wasn't lobbying against cocaine, either. I just chose MJ for this topic of discussion. Cocaine wouldn't be an issue more than likely if MJ was legal everywhere.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion points.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. - Alexander Fraser Tyler

None of them were illegal

None of the drugs was illegal before the Reefer Madness and Harry Anslinger. Big Pharma is heavily invested in the war because Mother Nature pretty much already gave us all of the drugs that we need.

Freedom is my Worship Word!