4 votes

Why did we invent guns?

How different would our world be today, if nobody had invented the gun? To be honest with you guys, this question eats at me, because I dont know how i feel about guns and this is coming from a former Marine. The society that we live in today forces us to arm ourselves with these weapons, right? If we lived in ancient Rome, the gun wouldnt be necessary. Or would it? Idk, Lol. What if machines guns were invented a 1000 yearsbefore they were suppose to be invented? If you had the secret all to yourself, would you tell anyone? Would you build one, so you'd be the only one that would have it? Would you have given the indians guns? Ill love to hear your opinion on this guys. Thank you.

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Guns are merely tools, which serve multiple purposes which most

tools do. They are defense, attacking, and hunting. Different guns/tools work differently for different tasks, and the best use of a gun defensively is not to have to use it at all. But regardless of the use, it is inevitable that the idea of a gun would have come up as a possible solution for the problems of hunting, warfare, or personal defense.

9-11 was a panda job.

Guns were invented

because throwing, hurling, and shooting (as in bows/xbows) projectiles was not as effective.

If we didn't have guns, you'd have a bow. If we didn't have bows, you'd have a spear. If you didn't have a spear, you'd have a sword or knife. If you didn't have a sword/knife, you'd have a rock or a club.

I didn't grow up in a gun-loving family. But in the last few years I (and my wife) realized that we needed to have some chance of defending ourselves if SHTF. We thought that we at least needed to be familiar with firearms and be trained enough to own, carry, shoot, and maintain them.

So we took a class and bought a gun... or several. Now we both enjoy target shooting for fun even though that was never the reason we first sought training.

I challenge anyone on this board who is still unsure about firearms to take a simple basic pistol or basic rifle class and learn gun safety and some basic shooting techniques. I really do think you'll have fun shooting even if you never use a gun for any other reason.

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

+1 for guns

Without guns, humanity is at the mercy of the largest and strongest.

Guns affirm the rights of the weak.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

You're so right!

You're so right!

Amen

.

Give me the money that has

Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace. ~Charles Sumner

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

It'll be a great day when education gets all the money it wants and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy bombers. ~Author unknown, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs

I dream of giving birth to a child who will ask, "Mother, what was war?" ~Eve Merriam

The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking... the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker. ~Albert Einstein

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow

Sometimes I think it should be a rule of war that you have to see somebody up close and get to know him before you can shoot him. ~M*A*S*H, Colonel Potter

All the arms we need are for hugging. ~Author Unknown

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. ~Napoleon

If we do not end war - war will end us. Everybody says that, millions of people believe it, and nobody does anything. ~H.G. Wells, Things to Come (the "film story"), Part III, adapted from his 1933 novel The Shape of Things to Come, spoken by the character John Cabal (Thanks Bill!)

A great war leaves the country with three armies - an army of cripples, an army of mourners, and an army of thieves. ~German Proverb

The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living. ~Omar Bradley

Sucks that

world peace is impossible.

No, seriously. It's a laudable dream, but it's never going to happen. As long as there are bad people - and there always will be - there will be warfare and fighting.

It's human nature.

There will ALWAYS be bad people, there will ALWAYS be fighting, and there will ALWAYS be a need for weapons.

"It'll be a great day when education gets all the money it wants and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy bombers" - this quote in particular is ridiculous, silly, and nanny-statist to no end.

George Washington pretty much spelled it out when he said that "Government is not eloquence; it is not reason. It is force." Any libertarian that isn't an anarchist will tell you that the government's only legitimate roles are enforcing laws against violating others' rights and defending its people from foreign aggression.

In other words, violence. Government is brute force. It's not a bloody nanny, to sit there and coddle us all and provide education and other things that families, churches, and communities should provide, it's a weapon, ideally used only against real criminals and aggressors.

Basically, IF taxes have a legitimate purpose, it sure as heck ain't education, it's those bombers, and missiles, and jet aircraft, and cruisers, and submarines, and destroyers, and tanks, and guns, and every other implement of force and warfare short of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons.

See, here's the deal. Those people you quoted? Out of all of them, only Einstein and the fictional character had a point. Einstein recognized human nature for what it is and lamented. The fictional Colonel justly called out the dehumanizing aspect of war. George Orwell pretty much nailed it when he said that the only reason decent people can sleep well at night is because rough men stand ready to do violence to those who would do them harm.

That's not idealistic, is it? It's bitterly cynical. And it's far from military-worship, too - it's the truth. It doesn't matter the source, the ONLY thing that deters bad people is the threat of being brutally harmed or killed by someone else.

Because we're not in the New Earth, yet. Then there'll be peace. Right now, though? Those poor, deluded fools who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

Guns were invented

as a better way to kill each other. The fact that they are useful for hunting is just a side effect.

This is why most weapons have been invented. We have spears ... they have spears ... quick, invent the bow and arrow. Damn, now they have bows. Quick, invent the gun ... the cannon ... the machine gun ... the bomb ... a board with a nail in it (for you Simpsons fans).

If we lived in ancient Rome you'd need a sword, or bow, or spear, or whatnot to defend yourself. Same thing, really, just slightly different method of application; e.g. stick it in your attacker rather than point and pull trigger.

Either or I'll keep my guns and continue to enjoy the right to defend my family and friends.

Collectivists murder hundreds of millions

... now "we" have a collectivist running the largest military ever assembled.

WAR is COMING

Our society is broken

Everyone has become so violent that they can't even think of another reason to have a gun than to kill other people. It's really sad.
Let me sadly be the first to mention predators--not humans--actual predators like bears and wolves that eat people. Guns were invented to help in the age old struggle of life on a planet with things that eat you. Sure, many people have been killed and have killed with guns but they were not invented to kill each other with. Killing people is bad m'kay.

If not the gun then something

If not the gun then something else? Lack of guns did not prevent ancient Rome from using whatever weaponry was stylish at the time to force people into conquered states. I can only wonder why modern times produces "soldiers" What kind of people enlist for soldiering as a career?

shuleba...great comment

As lame as this sounds --> guns don't kill people, people kill people; it's a fact.

Mankind has issues and taking away guns will not solve those issues.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal.".

Bout sums it up.

God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal.".

Bout sums it up.

If I had to chose between

If I had to chose between being shot to death, or being chopped up by a broad sword, which do you think I am picking?

I want to move to K-Pax.

I want to move to K-Pax.

too late...he's already

too late...he's already chosen me.

Lol, good one shuleba.

Lol, good one shuleba.

deacon's picture

Someone needed a faster

more efficient way to kill more people
The ones who invent them get wealthy from the sales,use and implementation
of more and more wars

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Untrue.

The first firearms - matchlocks - were incredibly slow to load and fire. They were developed primarily as a way to field -larger- armies. Speed and efficiency don't factor into it, a bow and arrow was significantly fast and more precise than firearms until the repeater.

Also: nonsense. When it comes to making money off of war, gun companies only benefit if they are a Really Special Company favored by the state. Generally, nowadays in the First World, H&K, FN, Colt, and that Russian company whose name escapes me do really well from military sales. The others? They make almost all of their money from civilians and law enforcement.

You want to talk about making money off of wars, look at the stuff us mere civvies can't get. The tanks, the jets, the choppers, the warships, the missiles, and Lord knows what else - the contractors that make those are the ones getting rich. Even the lucky big gun companies that manufacture for militaries rely pretty heavily on civilian and LE sales as well.

Take a look at, say, Springfield Armory. Used to be a state company, oddly enough, but now it deals almost solely with civilians and some LE (usually just its XD pistol series when it comes to LE). Smith and Wesson? Same thing. Remington, I think, does a few military sales, but far from a lot; being a rifle and shotgun company primarily, they rely almost entirely on civilians. LE likes their shotguns, but even then civilians make up the vast majority of customers.

Long story short, unless you're a Very Special Company, odds are really, really good that your gun company isn't going to be seeing any war money at all. Even if you do have some military sales, they're almost certain to be small, for special purposes (Mossberg, Remington).

deacon's picture

My point was

The ones involved with war,are the ones making money on it,The ones who create them weapons,are hand picked by the same ones who invent war
What you stated was more of an in depth comment from mine
So while the earlier ones were slower,they progressed from there,It just didn't start out being fully auto,just as the bow and arrow didn't start out
with a bow,string and an arrow,that had them feathers to help it fly true
Tanks,warships,choppers and whatever else used in war,in just another way to deliver more harm,but they still are bigger guns,even that new laser is just another gun,just progressed from the flint lock,into what we have today,but who knows about tomorrow?

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

We invented guns because it's hard to implant bullets manually.

What else ya going to do?

Why did people start throwing rocks?

A gun is just a natural progression of throwing a rock, only it's very small but travels really fast. Classic aggression vs self defense.

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So true! What's crazy is that

So true! What's crazy is that everybody on here is telling me, even if the gun wasn't invented, people would still find away to kill eachother. I never even thought of that! Lol. You guys are right! people have been killing eachother for centuries, way before the gun even came about. So i guess the gun in away is us evolving as a species? Maybe, idk. Im so confused. Im just afraid to where this could lead. Should those guys in the Manhattan project had made the atomic bomb? you know what I'm saying?

theory

Let me interject one of my theories into your comment: I believe there are certain technologies that, without the use of forced labor (i.e., taxation) would not be developed in a voluntary society. These technologies are so resource intensive and require so much redirection/misdirection of resources and are so dangerous that the combination makes their voluntarily supported development and maintenance all but impossible.

Understanding the nucleus of the atom and of the cell well enough to tamper with them destructively are two of those technologies. Thus, according to my theory, there is a distinguishing line which is probably drawn between rifles and nuclear bombs.

Guns are more humane

As soon as the gangs started calling themselves governments there was mass murder, ie wars.

But back in the day you'd be done in with a morningstar or an (old school) claidhmore or what have you. These were not particularly fun ways to go. Unlike the movies the odds that you got a clean decapitation or smashed skull were pretty small. And there was no antibiotics or medevac. Without antibiotics most wounds you got in a gang fight war were a horrible death sentence. If you were lucky someone might know enough to try to amputate a limb liable to go septic, but it might not work, you might die from the procedure and in any case there was no anesthesia. If it did work, well you're a cripple in a world with no prosthetics.

People back in the day weren't asking for a clean death because of any martial code, it was because that was the best option.

So you can't look at guns in isolation, you have to look at technology in general. As technology advanced so did medicine. Guns are certainly more effective than swords, but we can patch up so much more than we used to.

But there's another technology that has come along. The philosophy of freedom and a couple hundred years later the internet to spread it without governments suppressing it.

20 years ago no one but a few had access to Bastiat, or Spooner, or Mises. But now.. we have the technology to end wars and states. Guns are centuries old, but the new war is ideas. So long as states compete the information will be available. This is why they want world government of course so they can end the information revolution, which threatens to be a freedom revolution.

This we cannot allow.

Guns are not the real threat to you Marine. They have been around. Shutting down the internet, or creating world government, is.

Well, lets take Vikings.

Well, lets take Vikings. Vikings were large and powerful. Lets say mom and the kids are at home, the door is is kicked down and in walks Sven. Guess whose getting raped and murdered? Everyone who can't overpower a 6' 250lbs berserker foaming at the mouth and grabbing his crotch; that's who.

Now give Hilda an AR-15. Suddenly Sven's giant muscles, merciless disposition and berserker rage don't give him one ounce of advantage over Hilda. She is every ounce as deadly as he is. Infact more-so since she has the home turf advantage and Sven has to kick in "her" door.

Suddenly the raper finds himself being double penetrated with a double tap from Hilda's rifle.

When one group of humans has significant advantages in dealing violence (tech, or size & str), there is war and savagry. When all groups have roughtly equal fire power, there is peace and trade. People only "take" that which is not theirs when its easier than trading for it. There's a very simple truth about humans: "We want to aquire as many resources for our tribe as possible in the easiest way possible. When war is suicide for everyone, there will be peace.

If we made a law that any politician who declared aggressive war had to serve in combat, there would be no more war.

I definitely understand what

I definitely understand what you're saying, but look at the invention of the nuke. We now attack countries who have no nukes, so now everybody has to try to get one! just to be equal! I mean when is enough enough? Look what we did to the poor Japanese people. I feel our creativity, sometimes will be our downfall. I dont know, what do you think? I dont why i feel so conflicted on this issue.

I think you reinforced his point

We were the only ones with a nuke, so we used it. We threatened the USSR and China with nukes...until they got nukes. Then it became Mutually Assured Destruction...and peace.

I'm beginning to think the world would be safer if there were MORE nukes rather than fewer. I know, that's sick and counter-intuitive, but history seems to bear it out.

Such great points made,

Such great points made, thanks.