21 votes

John Williams of Shadowstats: We're in great depression

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
SteveMT's picture

No doubt we are in a depression. Here is some of today's news.

Sears to Close Chicago Flagship Store
Now it's New York: Novartis eyes another 500-plus job cuts with plant shutdown
Quad/Graphics Inc. laying off hundreds, closing two plants
Bell laying off 115 engineers as profits, revenues rise
Texas Instruments cutting 1,100 jobs; profit up
Target - cuts 475 jobs, 700 Unfilled Pos. in Minneapolis

I found this very interesting.......

Today on the Film, Literature and New World Order series, James and Richard Grove of the Tragedy and Hope community and the Peace Revolution podcast discuss Oliver Stone’s 1987 flick, Wall Street, and its 2010 follow-up, Money Never Sleeps. We discuss the movies’ historical context and significance, as well as how they relate to Grove’s own Wall Street whistleblowing experience.


How can anyone take this guy

How can anyone take this guy seriously?

Seriously, this guy (or the website) practically MAKES UP his unemployment and money supply numbers.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Long video...

too long for to watch but I do not need a video to tell me what I already know.

1 in 6 Americans below the poverty line.

Unemployment and under-employment way higher than the numbers indicate.

And when I first moved to the town I live in (13 years ago) this community was thriving. Today it is becoming a ghost town and everyday, everywhere I go I see people begging for handouts...all over town.

Absolutely pitiful. People better wake up.

Recession is when your neighbor loses their job.

Depression is when you lose your job.

Cyril's picture

True. And SHTF is when "deal" has completely replaced "job"


And SHTF is when "deal" has completely replaced "job" in everyone's daily vocabulary.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Omgz! Hyperinflation!


Oil price lower than 2008 peak and up on average at a low single digit compound rate...


25 year US dollar index^... no sign of hyperinflation there...

Treasury rates in low single digits.. inflation protected treasuries yielding 1.15%... No hyperinflation there...

You guys must know some super secret info, should really leverage everything and short treasuries, make a killing...

Oh wait Bill Gross tried that one...

Some people never learn.

And you didn't even mention the price of gold

dropping the most in 32 years.

Banks and robots - in a nutshell

The hidden reason for high unemployment is technological unemployment. There's no point in denying it anymore.


Anything saying otherwise is just quoting the government's fallacious numbers they use to corral us. Banks steal our labor at increasing rates and that forces people to work more and more for the same or less. Unfortunately, that is bumping up against the limit that businesses are willing to pay for a human to do a task rather than a one-time purchase of some automated system.

Exactly when can we begin discussing the REAL problem?

Why the future doesn't need us.

On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite - just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consists of soft-hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone's physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes "treatment" to cure his "problem." Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or make them "sublimate" their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they will most certainly not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.1


Automation makes things

Automation makes things cheaper for everyone who buys the product or benefits from it, including consumers and employees of businesses that buy it, and to a lesser extent on down the chain. The net result is more wealth despite the cut stream of wealth for a smaller number of people.

It is a natural part of an economy for workers to move to different industries and having to learn new skills based on where demand for labor is highest, as a result of direct or indirect effects of the innovations fueling other new and existing industries. But people have gotten so lazy and entitled that they refuse to change careers, and regulations and taxation makes it difficult for anyone to start and run a successful business.

The reality is that people need to be able to start working at a very low wage right now, and the economy would work its way back to prosperity where higher wages are more common. It's as stupid as going to a known poor country like Mexico and saying "Hey, I'll fix all your problems! Minimum wage is $15/hour! You're welcome!" Everything would grind to a halt. People understand that more easily than they can fathom that a "rich" country like the US would act in the same way.

So typical

Ah, yes. The economy will just fix itself if this or that only happens. Bullshit. You didn't watch the video and no one else on this site did either, I'm betting. That's why there's absolutely no getting to the heart of the matter - because everyone has their head in the sand to the root cause behind so many issues.

Go watch the video and then I dare you to say that new industries and other jobs are being created at anywhere close to the same rate as automation is eliminating them. Well, I dare you to say it with a straight face, that is.

I'm not going to watch a 90

I'm not going to watch a 90 minute video to earn the privilege of commenting on this old tired idea that technology is to blame for people being unable to create value and losing wealth. I've heard the argument before. For people without 90 minutes to spend, if there's something new to the argument you could write a summary.

Of course new jobs and industries are not being created. It's a risky move in an increasingly unfriendly climate for business owners. It doesn't pay off well enough.

Then just keep

your head in the fucking sand, luddite.

Perhaps someone can answer why this got downvoted so badly when I was simply pointing out (albeit with some emotion) that no one wants to discuss the root cause of this issue. The frustration came from someone taking a perfectly valid point made in the video and simply dismissing it because they think they know things haven't changed.

I really want to know why people on this site feel it's beneath them to discuss technological unemployment. Be it originating from the Zeitgeist movement topic, a long "DP Original" or a simple comment in reply to a related topic, I can't for the life of me get this discussion started.

Are you people that scared of technology eliminating jobs that you can't even discuss it?

This broken record is broken.

This broken record is broken.

I broke it...

I broke the broken record that was already broken after it broke from being broken so many times after it was already broken while it was already broke in the process of being broken.

Couldn't figure out how to fix it. It was really broke. It was so broke it disintegrated into many many broken pre-broke pieces!

Then Nikola Tesla came back from the dead and revived what had been broken for some many broke years.


Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

Did he use directed energy

Did he use directed energy weapons?


Certainly he did

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!


Your statement only proves that if you tell a lie long enough people believe it to be the truth. Just because the USG and financial media repeat their lies does not mean John Williams is wrong, just means inflation can wash away he sins of the USG. You might want to rethink such a nonsensical statement.

I can't belive you and I

are on the same side of this. But then I don't like much of what Bill says any more than you.

I spend my time on gardening and self sufficient sites these day.

You wall streeter's have NO CLUE how to grow anything, how to clean anything, nor how to cook anything.

But your authoritarian attitude sustains you. LOL


Base....if we are on the same side

it's only because you are one of the people Bill is complaining about.

Unfortunately for Bill I am on here and can call him out for that Keynesian crap he is spewing.

Contrary to your belief I was raised in farm country, so there isn’t much there I haven’t seen or done, including learning about crop futures……I learned to work smarter not harder.

It's not my fault Williams

It's not my fault Williams doesn't understand what's going on and wants to believe we've had 12% inflation a year for the past ten years.

Better numbers?

Share, please

Price inflation has been very

Price inflation has been very low since 2008. At some points it probably was zero or went negative.

I guess you have not noticed

I guess you have not noticed that container sizes have been getting smaller but the price has not changed or has gone up, I guess they fooled you with that one.

Exactly correct.

The numbers lie. The books are being cooked.

Washed Spinach is $4.19 / 10 oz.

It was less than $3 for 16 oz a few years ago sold in the same package tub. I saved them because I grow spinach, and a 10 sq ft patch looks a lot different today. It's real wealth.

Bill will get it eventually.

Get what? Even if this one

Get what? Even if this one crop, spinach, did actually go up by that much in a few years, that doesn't mean the dollar has lost that much value over those same years. Spinach prices have their own supply and demand issues like any crop. But you're being awfully vague about the time frame. If the price swing over 2 or 3 years was due to inflation of the general money supply and effecting all prices, you'd see that in oil too, not just spinach. At least there are good numbers for oil, we have to take your word on spinach.

How True, Stealth Inflation Exists

Now what happened to that 1/2 gallon (2 quarts) of ice cream I use to buy at the food store? It's been replaced by 1.5 quarts and the price has risen.

Large eggs are pushing $2.00 a dozen and the outside of the package doesn't show "dozen" but instead, ounces. Soon the number of ounces will shrink as well.

People have to eat and food packages are getting smaller while prices are rising. If that isn't a clear example of consumer product price inflation then I don't know what is.

If you sit down and do a

If you sit down and do a little honest math on any of those examples, you would find that probably none of them reflect a compound double digit price increase since 2005-6-7-8... You might find one commodity or price that has because of its own supply and demand profile, but if there was a persistent double digit price inflation for 7 years it would be reflected in all prices. It's not even really clear what the claim is, in some comments you guys are claiming price inflation and when pinned down your like eels and fall back on promises of hyperinflation around the corner by pointing to growth in bank reserves or some other metric. Please define your argument in an honest way that way I can refute it more easily. Thanks.

Absolutely bravo. You know

Absolutely bravo.

You know how Shadowstats calculated his inflation? He takes the government numbers, and adds a fixed value on top. Seriously, look at his graphs. It is literally the government graph, moved up by like 8-9%. LITERALLY....

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a