-14 votes

Stefan Molyneux and Seth Andrews, host of The Thinking Atheist, discuss breaking free from religion.

Stefan Molyneux and Seth Andrews, host of The Thinking Atheist, discuss breaking free from religion, the social costs of accepting atheism, the predatory targeting of the young, religion as child abuse, the worship of ignorance, the benefits of religion and advice to religious parents.


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Parents murder thier children everyday in this country


Liberty = Responsibility

No, I mean...

we all agree that parents should not be permitted under the law to murder their children...not that they are physically unable.

...And I doubt that every day a parent murders a child.

Read my above comment Salberty please and answer

Who told you it is wrong to murder one's children?

Man's law?

Man can change his law(s)at his very whim if he is in power to do so.

No, forget about man's law, that cannot make something right nor wrong!

Answer please, who told you it is wrong to murder and with what authority!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Wait wait! Hold the phone!

Wait wait! Hold the phone! Are you saying its wrong to kill children!? Oh SHOOT! Oh boy, how embarassing, now ive got pie on my face! See because I don't believe in invisable kings in the sky, I had NO IDEA it was wrong to murder kids! I mean how was I supposed to know these things!? When you don't believe in the Flying Spagetti Monster, you just kind of pinwheel around in life with no moral compass, don't love your kids and nothing means anything. Heck up until now I just flip a coin to make choices in life since nothing matters to me without the Spagetti Monster to tell me that stuff means stuff.

Shucks, well I guess I best stop randomly killing children for entertainment. It seemed like such harmless fun, but I guess this whole time Jebus knew it was bad and wrong and not goood to do! I think ill join team "good" where we KNOW its wrong to kill little kids because Jebus says so, and go laugh at some athiests as they burn in Jebus' torture chamber until the end of time for the aweful crime of not believing the crazy rantings of delusional people who claim to know shit they don't know.

My own reason told me.

I would consider it wrong for someone to murder me, so I also consider the murder of someone else wrong.

Who told you it was wrong? If "God", then my follow-up question is how did he tell you?

(I'm not trying to make any point by asking...just genuinely curious.)

He is referencing

He is referencing the murder of the unborn, I believe.

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You sir are correct, I was

You sir are correct, I was referencing the unborn.


Liberty = Responsibility

Fair enough...good point.

Parents do kill their unborn children probably every day in this country. I'll concede that.

Actually, that further makes my point (from a different angle). Most religious folk will agree that parents don't have the right to kill their unborn children.

So how can those same religious folk say that no one has an authority to interfere with how they raise their children?

I'm simply saying that NO ONE can consistently argue that only the parents have authority over their children. Everyone accepts that society has a responsibility to step in and protect children in SOME circumstance.

The debate ought to be over WHEN society should step in. To say a parent has ultimate authority justifies all kind of horrors (abortion included, depending on your point of view).

Ouch. That's a stingy

Ouch. That's a stingy answer, and id be willing to bet you get NO answer from the religous crowd. I love when you really hit it out of the park, its nothing but crickets and some downvotes. Can you imagine if someone actualy replied with: "That's a good point salberty, I guess I never thought of it that way. Maybe there "is" some role for society to protect children from monsterous parents who do harmful things to children."

I think I would eat an entire sofa if that happened.


That makes more sense.

Once Again

The godless are at it again. What else is new?

You must remember, the VAST majority of Atheists are Statists. The two are mutually exclusive. The number of libertarian Atheists is so miniscule, they are statistically irrelevant. It's like the number of Mexicans that don't eat tacos. You guys are fighting a losing battle. Those that do not look to God for guidance look to the almighty State. This is a fact of life.

Haven't you guys ever heard of the Soviet Union? All godless societies collapse.

The farther we stray from God, the worse the country gets. It's so painfully obvious... I'm sick of having this stupid debate. Funny how the Atheists fancy themselves so smart when they can't grasp simple history.

So Clint in your opinion,

So Clint in your opinion, those who believe in a cosmic King who grants no rights, gives no trials, has set up a 100% surveilance state where you are ALWAYS being watched and your every misdeed is recorded and will be brought against you when you stand before your overlord (but justice is given a waver so long as you subjegate yourself and grovel for forgivness)... and is never seen in public but must be worshiped and never questioned on pain of torture and death... those people are "less" likley to worship the state?

Meanwhile people who reject all of the above and demand reason and proof before believing in "authority" are "more" likley to be statists?


Are you "sure" that all of those "statists" aren't just religeous people who have replaced "god" with "government?" See because id put my money closer to this:

Some people are unequiped to deal with reality, and so they have to invent all-powerful entities to snuggle up to like a security blanket who promise to make it all better. Big bad reality is scary, and so when this entity promises to keep them safe and smite their enemies, they desperatly submit and hide from the big bad world. Sometimes, that entity is a god. Other times its a government. Either way, its a religeous, faith based belief and has nothing to do with "athiests."

Athiest minds demand reason, evidence and proof before accepting what they are told. Religeous minds do not. Those who worship the state are not athiest minded because they believe in an entity who can do impossible things and assign to that entity glorious virtues dispite all evidence to the contrary. Faith. Not reason.]

If we want to be more specific, this, like so many issues, is an issue of language. Instead of labeling people "religous" and "athiest," we should start calling them what they are. You have "irational people" and "rational people." period.

"The vast majority of atheists are statists?"

Hmm. I challenge this. I am an anarchist, which is as ANTI-STATE as you can be.

And in the anarchist circle; we ask "Is it possible to be a Christian AND and anarchist?"

So anarchists see religion and belief in an afterlife, the supernatural... to be irrational. And so find anarchism and Christianity to be incompatible.

No man...

There's no need to challenge these well founded and established statistics, they're all completely legit.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.



Mutually exclusive means the two CANNOT go together. I'm pretty sure you meant the opposite.

As to your point, could you please provide me the source of these two claims:
1. the VAST majority of Atheists are Statists.
2. The number of libertarian Atheists is so miniscule (sic), they are statistically irrelevant.

(crickets chirping)

...regarding the sources of those claimed statistics.

Common Knowledge

Source: the democrat party.

It is so common for Atheists to be Statists (liberals), Stefan Molyneux has coined the term "Statheists". I've heard him discuss this many times. This is common knowledge...

Your source for statistics is...

Some guy created a cleaver phrase? You've heard him say it many times? Common knowledge?

That's the source for your statistics?

Common Clint! If there's one thing more shameful than making shit up and pawning it off as legitimate statistics, it's NOT OWNING UP TO IT!

If that's the kind moral strength and integrity that believing in Jesus gives you, I'll proudly say "thanks, but no thanks"!

Blue Skies

You remind me of a woman who insists the sky is red.

Here you go...

"Marxism-Leninism advocates the abolition of religion and the acceptance of atheism.[4][5]"


The two go hand in hand my friend.

There is a certain practicality to religion. For some reason, mankind requires it to prosper. We will not evolve past religion. We are devolving without it.

Here is a video of Yuri Bezmenov (former KGB agent). He discusses the four-part strategy to destroy a society from within. It's incredibly interesting. With 3 minutes left in the video, he discusses what is required to turn things around and God is the main one. Mind you, he was a godless communist. Please watch it.


Oh thats funny.Mankind

Oh thats funny.

Mankind requires religion to prosper!? Well given that 90% of humans are religious and have been for a very very long time, I guess that explains why we have propsered so well throughout history? Boy! Being brainwashed by dipshit, primitive parents to believe in fictious aribitrary authority which never needs to justify itself has really paved the way for mankind as we go from one authoritarian totalitarian regime to another! But im sure the two have nothing to do with one another! Its not like the kind of brain who can accept the ridiculous, cartoonish authoratarian MONARCHY as laid out in the bible would ever be made to serve ridiculous, cartoonish authoritarian dictators here on earth! Thanks faith! You've served humanity well!

Here's another fun thing to consider: Roughly 90% of humans are religious. Roughtly 10% of people have what is considered a "high IQ." It must be a miracle! Praise Jebus!

The fact that this got up voted

Like it is based on some logical and empirical information, instead of the opinionated conjecture that it really is; quite disappointing.

Do you even simple history bro?

.......wtf are you talking about?

"Those who don't look to god for guidance look to the almighty state. This is a fact of life."

I find it amazing that you think that the people who do not believe in the oldest construct of control, coercion and indoctrination; would fall for the stories the new kid on the block is peddling (the state). I will bet my house that there are proportionally more religious statists, than atheist statists. The state took the blueprint for instilling blind belief in things from religions play book.

But according to you I must be that mythical libertarian atheist. I am the child of Odin, Jesus, Buddha, Allah and Shiva brought to term in the belly of a unicorn, delivered by Santa Claus and his head nurse the easer bunny and raised by Zeus and Hera; my brothers are minotaurs.....

Also The USSR did not collapse because of disbelief in god it collapsed because:

1) Too much central power over too many local geographic/social areas
2) They had an unsustainable foreign policy. (See afghan war)
3) Keynesian economic policy
4) Govt. too involved in social and economic choices of individuals. (Any of that sound familiar!?!)

if you think telling kids about God is child abuse

then I recommend you read the book tortured for Christ http://www.amazon.com/Tortured-Christ-Richard-Wurmbrand-eboo...

This is the true story of a Romanian Christian who told others about Christ, and the people around him who did the same thing. Some of those people told children about Christ and the communist went very far out of their way to persecute those people, for child abuse. Whats most interesting is that many of these people were arrested for teaching their own children about God and how badly the government then treated the children who were "abused".

I bet no atheist can read this book and still say that telling kids about Christ is child abuse.

I don't think any athiest is

I don't think any athiest is saying that telling kids about Christ is child abuse. I think its the "And you have to worship him or else you go to a bad place where demonic monsters will torture you with fire until the end of time"

A little child trust you as their parent 100%. What you say is their reality. When you tell them that engaging in their perfectly natural biological functions is going to result in them being taken by horrible demonic monsters to a realm of horrors and tortured forever, they BELIEVE you. It TERRIFIES them. It gives them nightmares and twists their little subconcious minds with guilt and fear when they get natural urges that ALL humans get. This is the kind of brainwashing tricks through psycological torture that government programs like MK Ultra use. Break a mind with trauma and reprogram it as you please. How can anyone justify this?

What you zealots do to your children is abhorant, and while "soft" christian upbringing is probably fine, there are many who cross the line in their zealotry into the realms of child abuse. I know its often well meaning abuse since the same crap happened to those who inflict this evil onto their kids. They truly believe they are trying to protect their kids from these horrible things which they believe are true and so they are the product of their environment to a point, but none-the-less, they should be ashamed.

You don't OWN your children. And if what you are doing to your child would get you thrown into jail if you did it to a mentally handicapped person, I see no reason for a double standard.

"Hey Corky, you better clean up this mess or else im going to unleash that demon I keep in the closet and he's going to tear your guts out." This is a preditory and cruel-spirited thing to do to someone who doesn't have the mental facilities to mitigate the psycological fraud you're perpetraiting on them. Children fall into that category, and you have to be a sick twisted person to do this to them.

Completely agree.

. Very good book. Every atheist libertarian should read this book.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Jesus Christ that was so

Jesus Christ that was so funny!! HA

Solid gold. period.

Solid gold. period.