35 votes

Time to start courting the Democratic Party

Lots of folks in the Liberty movement still imagine the situation in the US as a left-right issue, but it's really a freedom-totalitarian issue.

I admit, it often seems that Democratic politicians are more unabashed about frankly hating the idea of freedom, and are cozier with the idea of state control of everything, but they don't generally represent actual people that vote Democrat any more than Peter King represents Ron Paul.

I think the Liberty movement has done a great job bringing in the guns and patriots, but probably hasn't done as well getting the hookah and Haight-Ashbury crowd on board. This is tragic, since the "do your own thing" group isn't ever going to be homogeneous, and the 20-acres-and a-deep-well bunch does ideologically belong with the hippies who want to expand their minds and do handstands together in Greenwich village. The gospel is freedom, and freedom isn't just one thing or one idea.

I feel like many of us do a lot of Democrat bashing, but we ought to reach out and help people ask themselves "What can liberty do for you?" instead of demonizing the party they are currently identified with.

For instance, "libtard" is probably a bad opening line for getting that fringe on our side, and we ought to do more to invite them over from the waste of time that is the two-party system. I'm sure most of us can agree that the warmongering neocon bunch is just as offensive to us as the Feinstein bunch.

By simply using the word "Democrat", most people would assume that you are a "Republican", which for most of us, couldn't be further from the truth.



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Do tell us all what Libertarian principles that...

Ron Paul does not champion. I can't think of any.

Which side of the LP are you?

Ron Paul is a conservative and does not adhere to the liberal libertarian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

Let's just break it down to issues and policies...

Trying to say he doesn't support Left or Right Libertarians as a Left or Right Conservative is a waste of time.

What Libertarian policy does he not support?

abortion

He believes in small government (mini-statist), not no govenment. He does not believe nature belongs to everyone as a collective free for all
He's not anti-war.. he's anti-executive order wars.

Noam Chomsky is a Libertarian.

It's not a waste of time to know your party and who's who and what's what.

Abortion should be a states rights issue.

Ron Paul may be against abortion but he knows he can't decree it illegal. Libertarians have no problem with it being a states rights issue just like Ron Paul.

Noam Chomsky is not a Libertarian, he's a socialist. You may want to checkout what he said about Libertarians and Ron Paul. It seems you're the one wasting time by speaking about things you know little about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwQEgOKEEXI

Libertarians would like anarchist to leave the Libertarian party as much as liberty-minded Republicans would like Neo-Cons to leave the Republican party. We believe in government limited to its constitutional bounds.

To say we want no government is more blabber.

Lastly, Libertarians are very familiar with and have no problem with Congress declaring war....

just like Ron Paul.

So yeah, change the Republican party to the Libertarian philosophy and all is good. Republicans didn't discover liberty in 2008 and 2012, you're just catching-up.

yoo hooo

The first party I joined was Libertarian in 1976. I was a libertarian for 16 years. Know how many elections we won? NONE.

I went indy, as did many Libertarians, as debates and ballots closed. For 17 years I fought for open debates and ballots. Know what we won? Multible law suits in multible states.

I realize the younger Libertarians did not go through what older Libertarians did. So I don't expect them to understand the stratigy of Ron paul's invitation to join the GOP; However brilliant.

I'm seeing many of the old Libertarians do what I did.. we took up Ron Paul's invitation, and we are shaking the GOP up.. and I admit, it's a good fight, yet a cake walk compared to the brutality I faced as an Indy.

The tea party and Libertarians are taking the GOP. There it is.

We live in a different world than we did in 1976...

Back then people thought the Libertarians were loons. We didn't win back then because people couldn't see the writing on the wall but everything we've warned about is coming true and people are waking up.

I understand that some can't accept the fact they were wrong. I get it.

If you need to re-brand yourselves as Republicans with Libertarian philosophy , by all means, do so. More power to you and God speed.

Really?

Back then Ayn Rand was known as a Libertarian and people did not think she was a loon. What was considered "looney" by the establishment was the young people like me who wanted the war on drugs to end. We saw the war on drugs as a war on us. Is it differnt now? Maybe that the war on drugs is a racist war, but it remains a war on youth, and a war the LP has been unable to defeat.

People saw the writing on the wall all right.. they saw the sex, drugs and rock and roll as the stupidfication of the youth who were willing and wanting to throw America away to be free, and high.

It's not a matter of re-branding. It's a matter of changing these laws, which Republicans like GJ can give all the lip service he likes, but rather than sticking with a party that has POWER to do that, he's fine profitting off those who think the power of the people can actually change that with one made in office and 50 senators, 500+ congresscritters, and their committees against him.

Right now the GOP is very shook up that we are not so offended we're not running back to never never land (LP). But fortunately, there are plenty like me who had had enough. We're not running.. we're going to FIGHT, and we are fighting. And they are playing their dirty tricks because they are afraid of us. We are not afraid of them. We've had enough of them and we will not just let them have the power to make our lives hell.

I love it. Did you read that letter by Morton Blackwell to Reince Preibus? Blackwell tore Reince to bits.. even the conservatives are getting sick of the shenannigans.

I think one man can change the laws...

Had Ron Paul won the presidency, do you think he would sign bills into law that were unconstitutional?

Do you think he would have carried on with The War on Drugs, would he have passed NDAA, etc.?

Yeah, one man can make a difference but you have to elect him first.

50 senators and 500 congressmen can't pass unconstitutional laws if the president doesn't sign them. Maybe they can but they will lose their power and be impeached by their constituency.

GJ wouldn't have gotten 2% had Ron Paul been the nominee. However, I was surprised that the number of people that say they love liberty just quit and stayed home.

That's nice

I think there was no way in Hell Ron Paul or GJ was going to win. But let's say RP did. I think he would have been sabotaged worse than Clinton is sabotaging Obama. Is Obama the person he campaigned? No. Why? The Democratic Party is with Clinton, not Obama.. they're hanging him and MSM helps. How funny is it to hear Obama say that he has a pen and he'll use it? Can you hear Ron Paul tell America, "I have a pen and I'll use it!"? Ron Paul did say, "I don't want to be your dictator". So what would he do about McCain, Graham.. let's face it.. at least I personally face it,, Ron Paul ate lunch alone for years because the GOP thought he was a loon.

People say they will do all kinds of things, and they don't. I would not be in the GOP if not for Ron Paul. If you think it was easy for me to join the GOP you would be wrong. It was very difficult. It made me sick. But.. I now see what Ron Paul saw,, and for those who have the guts, because it takes guts, it's a damn good fight. It's not about Ron Paul. It's about Restoring the Republic.. constitutional government with a bill of rights that provides the liberty we all want. That's the goal.

Get over yourself already.

It takes guts to be a Republican? Everyone is a stupid coward because they don't think like you?

It takes guts to stick to your principles no matter the cost versus going along to get along while you con yourself into believing that you're making a difference.

You're changing nothing. Liberty will be won without you being a turncoat and voting Christie into 2016 as the Republican nominee.

You don't realize that now. You, Rand and the rest of the awaken Republicans that think you're going to change the party by following the carrot. They've shown their true colors and you want to believe they'll give-up their power and wealth for liberty. They'll change the rules as they please. Any gain will be wiped out in one meeting and vote...while you're not invited.

I'll give you two more election cycles to realize the obvious. Then, hopefully, en masse, liberty Republicans will realize they have to leave the party to take power away from the powerful.

well

it took me guts i hated the gop with a passion. Seriously.. I got sick checking that box. But I was going to do everything I could to get Ron Paul the nomination. I lead four counties and of 53 counties, we came in third behind San Francisco and Santa Cruz, and Ron paul thanksed me, so if you don't.. it's ok. I'll get over myself. Fuck me.. you don't need me.. I guess Ineed you? Hmmm

Because Oh that's right.. Gary Johnson, the Rpublican who snapped on the LP button.. he's going to save us from slavery,, yeah right.

You should read my emails.. I think our chair just resigned, But It wasn't me who did that, because it wasn't me who stood up at the diustrict meeting embarrassing him.. It wasn't me no it was YOU.

Turncoat? I'm a turncoat? To what? The Libertarian Party.. last meeting I attended had 2 people. Wow. but they did get 125 votes last election . Wow. Think my 126 would ahve made GJ prez? Woukld it have put Ron Paul in office? Oh I know, it would have made you not call me a turncoat. Wow. There's a good reason.

I don't think the establishment GOP is ever going to GIVE up. I think they are going to fight, and what I mean.. I think they are going to arrest people on false charges. Maybe me. I think they are going to break bones. I think they are going to KILL people. That's what I think. I've been warned. But as you know. I'm a stupid fool who won't keep my big mouth shut. Not here, not at the GOP.. not me. I've been told.. "Youre making your bed". I guess I'm digging my grave. Oh well.

I've been through four election cycles as a Libertarian.. 4 eelection cycles as an Indy.. and 1 election cycle as a Republican (I refused to join the GOP in 07 for Ron Paul.. I just HATED that party way too much).

I think within two election cycles there will be rivers of blood in the streets of the USA, bombs, tanks armed tropps from the UN, drone, raiding hoards of raping murdering what the military doesn't get if we don't advance. The USA isn't the only country calling for rEVOLution.. many have fallen before us..

In the meantime.. I'm going to work on getting over myself. peace

I saw this documentary two nights ago...

and something inside me said it's only a matter of time before this fight comes to America. There is a lot we can learn from this documentary.

There are many ironic parallels to our fight here. The Muslim Brotherhood can be compared to the current Tea Party, not the original Ron Paul Tea Party and not in ideology of the current Tea Party, rather in the way they hijacked the Egyptian Revolutionaries movement for freedom to win control.

Eventually the Revolutionaries who want liberty for all Egyptians, Christian included, had to overthrow Morsi and the Brotherhood and their desire for Sharia Law.

When it gets to that point for us here, I promise I will be on the frontline. I may not make it but I'll die trying.

The party you support will be firing bullets and running over people like me.

TY

We need to stand up committee by committee, state by state, and end the charade that's for sure!

Ron Paul chose the Republican

Ron Paul chose the Republican Party because it is the best vehicle for us to use. It is a lot easier for us to spread the message of smaller government and cutting spending in a party that is supposed to be about smaller government and cutting spending.

Try doing that in the big D party.

Try doing it everywhere!

That's my point.

Feed the Love of Liberty wherever you are, wherever you go.

My point is that most

My point is that most democrats can't grasp the idea of smaller government and cutting spending.

you have to be kidding

The Republican Party isn't about smaller government in the least bit. The Democratic Party isn't either, but there are plenty of Democrats that are fiscally conservative. They just don't have a voice in their party just like the fiscally conservative Republicans don't have a voice in their Party. All lip service.

Thankfully both Democrats and Republicans are leaving their parties. The Democratic Party is bigger though so we have to work on them in my view.

You completely missed my

You completely missed my point. I was simply stating that the RP is supposed to be about smaller government and less taxes thus making it a perfect vehicle for the Liberty movement to spread the message. Get it?

Many would say that Republicans would never accept the...

Libertarian philosophy that Ron Paul has spread. He may have a Republican label but his message is totally Libertarian.

If you disagree, tell me how it's different.

If some, and it's growing every day, Republicans can accept No More unnecessary Wars, then Democrats can accept smaller government particularly with them seeing how we are turning into a police state everyday.

The economy and government debt is becoming a reality. Don't underestimate people's ability to wake-up.

You did.

I woke up but I was already

I woke up but I was already half way there.

the Democrats among my friends and family

are grasping more than you think, or are giving credit for.

The message of freedom unites, remember. Our differences make us strong. We have to protect individual rights, not suck everyone into agreeing with us. As 'someone' I love and respect said, it's not important that we agree, it's important that we are allowed to disagree.

Communication is the key.

LOL

The Granger Makes the CASE, yet doesn't see it.

I quote: "this is what the Neos did Neo liberals took the Democratic Party and Neocons took the GOP, and they gutted the GOP, hook and crook"

And there you have it. THAT is why we liberty-lovers can and must do the very same thing. Its a proven path, as Granger just pointed out, that a small bunch of tenacious ideologues can and do take over entire policy directions within the 2-party duopoly.

It can happen again. The "Jacksonian Democrats" or "Pro-War Liberals" and their think tanks are still "On the Left"......and thanks to many of them splitting up and moving over to the conservative side in 1980, the "NeoCons" or new conservatives were born.

The NeoCons rose quickly up the ranks inside the GOP and inside think tanks. Their greatest coup was the taking over of the FREE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE. They transformed it with money and people.

The head of the snake changed and the body followed. That is how a few passionate ideologue activists can and have taken over both the GOP and the DNC. That is WHY the "war party" exists in both parties. We liberty lovers must do the same, be inside both parties.

I think its been done with the Ayn Rand Institute, now so wildly pro Israel that its unbearable hypocrisy is sickening. ARI claims that its not libertarian, that "Objectivism has a clear, well-defined, and unique view of political principles, which exist as outgrowths of their philosophical foundations" but its leader, an Israeli born & raised citizen and now I guess an American citizen, Yaron Brook, could NOT say one way or the other in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, and today if invading Iraq was right or moral. That is, he provided no "clear, well-defined, unique view" on the matter. It was and is appalling.

Controlling the body of the snake is best done by becoming the head of the snake. Its been done inside the born-again christian movement. Once upon a time, pre-1980's, they were firmly against Israel. Today, they are firmly FOR Israel. This transformation is done by inside infiltration and taking over the top POLICY MAKING positions within the organization. It works, its proven, and that seems to be where the true battle is waged.

What Granger fails to realize is that the suspicion cast your way is just the team-fan hang over. It comes when new players join rival teams. It will ALWAYS be there, and your skill is measured by how far you rise up within the organization without those arrows hitting and going deep.

Hence, a liberty lover in the DNC may (for survival) choose two liberal hot buttons that are liberty loving, champion those, and pay lip service to "funding our schools" and "of course a woman must choose". That would be the life of a DNC Senator whose a liberty lover. In the same way, a liberty loving GOP Senator may say such things as "Iran must be stopped", "I love Israel", and of course "Edward Snowden should serve some time for what he did". Hence, life as a libertarian politician wearing the GOP or DNC label is a balancing act for sure. But HEY IT WORKS. Even the LP is not immune, it gave its nod to several non libertarians to run as the LP President and Vice President (Bob Barr / Wayne Allyn Root). Indeed, when asked by me at Freedomfest, "What are individual rights?" both failed to say, "Life, liberty, and Property", the cornerstone principle of the LP itself.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

The Granger Makes the CASE, yet doesn't see it.

I quote: "this is what the Neos did Neo liberals took the Democratic Party and Neocons took the GOP, and they gutted the GOP, hook and crook"

And there you have it. THAT is why we liberty-lovers can and must do the very same thing. Its a proven path, as Granger just pointed out, that a small bunch of tenacious ideologues can and do take over entire policy directions within the 2-party duopoly.

It can happen again. The "Jacksonian Democrats" or "Pro-War Liberals" and their think tanks are still "On the Left"......and thanks to many of them splitting up and moving over to the conservative side in 1980, the "NeoCons" or new conservatives were born.

The NeoCons rose quickly up the ranks inside the GOP and inside think tanks. Their greatest coup was the taking over of the FREE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE. They transformed it with money and people.

The head of the snake changed and the body followed. That is how a few passionate ideologue activists can and have taken over both the GOP and the DNC. That is WHY the "war party" exists in both parties. We liberty lovers must do the same, be inside both parties.

I think its been done with the Ayn Rand Institute, now so wildly pro Israel that its unbearable hypocrisy is sickening. ARI claims that its not libertarian, that "Objectivism has a clear, well-defined, and unique view of political principles, which exist as outgrowths of their philosophical foundations" but its leader, an Israeli born & raised citizen and now I guess an American citizen, Yaron Brook, could NOT say one way or the other in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, and today if invading Iraq was right or moral. That is, he provided no "clear, well-defined, unique view" on the matter. It was and is appalling.

Controlling the body of the snake is best done by becoming the head of the snake. Its been done inside the born-again christian movement. Once upon a time, pre-1980's, they were firmly against Israel. Today, they are firmly FOR Israel. This transformation is done by inside infiltration and taking over the top POLICY MAKING positions within the organization. It works, its proven, and that seems to be where the true battle is waged.

What Granger fails to realize is that the suspicion cast your way is just the team-fan hang over. It comes when new players join rival teams. It will ALWAYS be there, and your skill is measured by how far you rise up within the organization without those arrows hitting and going deep.

Hence, a liberty lover in the DNC may (for survival) choose two liberal hot buttons that are liberty loving, champion those, and pay lip service to "funding our schools" and "of course a woman must choose". That would be the life of a DNC Senator whose a liberty lover. In the same way, a liberty loving GOP Senator may say such things as "Iran must be stopped", "I love Israel", and of course "Edward Snowden should serve some time for what he did". Hence, life as a libertarian politician wearing the GOP or DNC label is a balancing act for sure. But HEY IT WORKS. Even the LP is not immune, it gave its nod to several non libertarians to run as the LP President and Vice President.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Yep Treg, there you have it. Do as EVIL did

BE EVIL Treg.

Thank you for letting me know that you are not with us in the GOP.

Thank you for letting me know that you would have broken our bones, silenced us, yourself, because you are NOT with us.

I get it Treg.

Im in the GOP as a PC... and rising... get used to it.

Nothing evil about it Granger, I just don't place "team" over liberty loving principles and policies. Nor should you my friend. Own the team, don't let the team own you.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I'll do more than get used to it Treg

You are exactly the problem and are not helping us, but hurting us.

Jesus said to Peter, GET BEHIND ME SATAN!

Youre a RINO Treg. An infiltraitor, you're not genuine, youre not real, except as a problem, a personal saftey issue..

Ron Paul Republicans who are genuine should steer far away from you.

dems and us

the freedom loving democratis fringe and the freedom loving rep. fringe
we have a lot in common

can you say liberaltarian

i know it hurts

ring of fire is anti corporatist

Whats in a Name? Seriously?

I asked this question some time ago "Whats in a Name?" Wearing the GOP or DNC or even "LP" label should not be OUR "issue". That is, we should NOT confuse our liberty-loving self identity with the LABEL on our lapel.

Labels have power, but don't let the GOP, DNC, or LP label have power over you. Don't allow the label become a prison to your liberty to effect change with-in the 2-party duopoly.

Indeed, in 2005 we old-school libertarian activists here in Phoenix (see Earnie Handcock's freedomsphoenix.com) decided to "Hey guys, let's FREE Liberty from the LP!!!" and so created & branded the wide open "R3VOLution". Dr. Ron Paul and many others talked to Ron Paul in 2006 & 2007 and said, "the R3VOLution will sign your phrase and spread your name from coast to coast". With that, the "R3VOLution" was basically born. Not enough credit goes to Ernie Hancock, but that is just my opinion.

ANYWAY --- We liberty lovers should and MUST infiltrate both parties as fast as we can. Indeed, it can be lots of fun.

"Why We Must Re-brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly."

http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or-go-freedom...

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820