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shameless request for input

Enclosed is a shameless request for input to the many great minds and eloquent writers on the DP. The situation: a very close friend is a young school teacher at the secondary level. This friend was invited to participate in a day-long forum that will include educators; intellectuals; sociologists; and politicians including the current, and several former, governors of our state to discuss topics relevant to improving public education.
One of the main topics:
“While the necessity for good teachers is rarely debated, how we go about attracting, preparing and supporting a high-quality teaching workforce is strongly contested. As part of our work, we will convene individuals representing the wide range of perspectives on this education issue.”
Specific discussion points
How do we attract the right candidates into colleges of education?
What are the lessons from other industries that education can use to guarantee human capital of the highest caliber?
What baseline salary could attract high quality candidates to the field?
What incentives could be used to recruit world-class teachers to our most challenged schools?
What non-pay incentives could be part of a competitive compensation system?
How do we continue to ensure teacher effectiveness over the career continuum?

Alternatively, ask a better question for the forum. Thanks in advance for any input. I look forward to bringing a DP perspective to issues being discussed in my locality.

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to wrap up... thanks to all those who commented

my friend wrapped up the event without rocking the boat. It turns out we were right, it was a political show. It turns out the governor showed up after having announced a base rate pay increase for teachers who are in their first 10 years of the pay scale table. My friend interpreted the event as a bitch fest for teachers who still weren't happy after the announcement of the meager pay increase. though my friend, who does not follow politics, is slowly moving towards liberty, it sounds like most of the interested parties are stuck in the partisanship state of mind.

once again, thank you. In liberty we trust

Supply and demand in free markets

How do we attract the right candidates into colleges of education?

Answer A:
We (the fellow criminals) offer protection from the less powerful criminals among our group, so long as the desired "educator" follows orders without question. The form of protection can be higher pay, denominated in fraudulent money used to perpetrate the crime of extortion, conveniently called tax payments into our National Debt FUND, whereby the lure luring the educator is less Debt payments demanded from the potential "educator" compared to his or her targeted victims who will be indoctrinated into the fold.

Answer B:
We (the fellow defenders of the innocent from the fellow criminals) offer credit in the form of earnings based upon the competitive quality and cost as those measures of quality and costs are measured by the free traders who freely choose among the available suppliers of information demanded by those consumers. We as a service supply the connecting medium between teachers and students in such a way as to offer the highest quality teachers we manage to find, and train, at the least cost, competitively, to connect to many consumers demanding high quality, and low cost, information.

What are the lessons from other industries that education can use to guarantee human capital of the highest caliber?

Legal Crime Industries
Those criminals able to avoid succumbing to their own lies while remaining exceptionally able to invent new lies required to cover up the old lies will be those who manage to secure to themselves and their group the most power in the form of Legal Purchasing Power from which that Debt FUND can finance any project that Fraud Money can buy.

Free Market Industries
Those who can create the most effective means by which higher quality of life can be earned while reducing the cost of life to the absolute minimum are those whose natural ability command the greatest credit by their examples offered to everyone else in a free market; especially evident when Legal Crime Industries become more Powerful (by falsehood,threat, and violence upon the innocent) than free market traders.

What baseline salary could attract high quality candidates to the field?

The Legal Crime Field of managing consent, also known as brain washing, also known as indoctrination, also known as suppression of relevant facts that compete with Legalized Crime, also known as Monopolization of the transfer of information world wide, is attractive to the best liars, the most destructive human beings, because the "salary" they can manage to steal has no practical limit other than that which can be stolen from the many innocent victims. Once the supply of innocent victims is gone, however, each criminal will be at each other criminal's throat as they fight over the remaining supply of valuable things that were produced by the innocent victims.

The Free Market Field of supplying the highest quality information at the lowest cost to those who demand the highest quality information can earn as much salary as their ability to out perform the competition whereby the competitors force quality up and cost down in free markets because no sane person would pay more for less given a choice.

What incentives could be used to recruit world-class teachers to our most challenged schools?

Potential "teachers" can take whatever they can steal from the "students," so long as they do not get caught by moral people as the potential "teachers" are given free access to anything they want from those "students" within those obvious limitations of moral conscience - assuming any human moral consciences still exists in any human beings anywhere.

Teachers find their special talents in free markets because they can teach the best, and therefore their reward includes the reward of having the opportunity to do what they can do better than almost anyone else, a reward itself, added to any monetary reward that may be earned because their special talent is in high demand as prove by the number of consumers willing to out bid each other for that special talent - while maintaining competition among fellow teachers out bidding each other for access to the supply of consumers.

What non-pay incentives could be part of a competitive compensation system?
Legal Crime is a pyramid structure offering more power to those who prove to be best at perpetrating crimes upon the targeted innocent AND fellow criminals too. The higher quality criminals gain the most power soonest.

The reward of finding which talents each individual is capable of pushing the human limits of quality upwards while costs are lowered to the minimum is, in a word, happiness.

How do we continue to ensure teacher effectiveness over the career continuum?

If the "students" stop obeying without question, the flow of loot stops flowing to the "teachers."

Free markets result in an ever increasing quality of life while the costs of life reduce to the limits of human ability.

"Alternatively, ask a better question for the forum."

Who determines the demand for information?


If they're really interested

If they're really interested in improving public education (they relly aren't BTW) then they're asking all the wrong questions.

The problem isn't the teachers.

Every year floods of energetic young teachers graduate and take teaching jobs, then they run smack dab into "The System". Over time, the system then proceeds to beat all of the enthusiasm out of those young teachers, turning them into robotic, curriculum spewing, assessment slaves, slaves to the accountability systems put in place by seemingly well meaning politicians.

My perspective? My wife taught in public education for 20 years, and I watched what happened to her and suffered through her nightly diatribes, and observed the same things happening with all of her teacher friends.

Ask any experienced public school teacher what she wants and the answer will be the same - autonomy. The autonomy to teach her own way and at the pace she diagnoses for her students. The autonomy to vary from the curriculum at times, in the interest of pursuing topics that her students express interest in.

But such autonomy isn't allowed in public education today. Thanks largely to NCLB, it's now all about the test and nothing but the test. Teachers are given strict curriculums from which they are not allowed to vary, along with pacing guides that define for them the specific content that they will be teaching every day of the school year. Then the teachers are measured based on how well her students (who don't want to be there in the first place) performed on the government developed test.

The problems with this system, from the teacher perspective, are almost too numerous to mention. Two big ones:
- There is rarely any adjustment in how the teacher is measured that take into account student characteristics linked to low achievement, such as poverty, or poor attendance.
- The curriculum and pacing, as I said, is forced from above. Usually teachers are not even allowed to remediate when they know that it's needed.

Good teachers, intelligent, caring adults who want to help kids - once they come to understand that this is the system and that there is no changing it and that it is getting worse (thanks to the continued political meddling) - these individuals either resign themselves to the system (lacking all enthusiasm for teaching), or they escape it.

That's why the public schools can't keep quality teachers. It's not the pay, it's that those with intelligence who are not going to put up with the nonsense leave the profession.

It's not the pay, it's autonomy. It's giving teachers the FREEDOM to teach.

Suggest to your friend that she ask THAT of the politicians putting on this show, and let us all know the reaction.

My prediction? Blank stares, followed by a list of reasons why autonomy simply can't be allowed.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

Wow! It's quite evident from the get-go...

that they can't yet see the noses on their faces. There's a common emphasis tying the main topic with all the discussion points that ultimately looks to throw more money at everything. This is not the first place to look, nor is it to seek higher quality recruitment from the outside. The first point is a good example... "How do we attract the right candidates into colleges of education?" Such a question presumes two things. One, that they are currently flooded with wrong candidates, and Two, that their colleges of education and the programs they provide are not the problem, but the people they are currently attracting are the problem. Utter self delusion!

In other words, my suggestion to you and your friend is to not waste too much time and energy participating in those cookie cutter discussions. Spend your time and energy getting the discussion going about ways to make things better by addressing what might be more deeply problematic such as new approaches in the programs at the colleges of education. Not how to attract the "right" people, but how to educate [any] teachers to be "right". It would start a bad precedent to focus on "attracting the right candidates". That's a bad principle that will ultimately work against their goal. All teachers start out as students. Any effort made and resources thrown to "attract the right candidates" will distract from efforts made and resources thrown toward receiving any candidates and training them to be "right" teachers. This principle will eventually sully their aims, the elementary and secondary schools. "How do we attract better students?" :D That's absurd. At some point you simply have to do the best you can with what you've got. In principle that is always the first place to look, the primary emphasis.

My girlfriend is currently in a teaching program at the University of Minnesota. So far I'm appalled by the education she has received there. She is being trained to care about the information she will pass as a teacher. She is not being educated in how to care for students. Many teachers do make it through their training with a capacity to care for their students. Perhaps those are "the right candidates". Nonetheless, I believe all candidates enter colleges of education with a primary desire to help students, but the problem doesn't rest with those who lose it, those who become distracted. It rests with the programs of training that stunt their capacities to care about what's "right".

last bump

I am convinced that if we are to achieve true free-markets and personal liberty in our lifetimes, the following is required:

a reasonable percentage of the populace that is capable of critical thinking and wise consumer-decisions and life-decisions. Otherwise, the state will continue to fill the void

-i appreciate the input i received, it was more than i expected

In my view public schools are

In my view public schools are already a lost cause.

However, if you insist on beating your head against the wall to improve them the only steps to take are the ones the lead to greater a greater autonomy and independence for each individual school whether or not part of a larger district. Here are a few of my suggestions:

Each individual public school should be more closely organized like a private school.

1. The school's community should be composed of the teachers, parents of the current students, and alumni/ae.
2. The Community should elect a board of trustees to guide and maintain the mission of the school, raise an endowment for it, and appoint its Head administrator(s).
3. The Head of School is then responsible for the hiring of the faculty, and administering the curriculum as circumscribed by the mission and direction the trustees have chosen for the school.

This kind of structural change is essential to any real, fundamental, and meaningful improvement in "public" education. Though politically these changes are unobtainable, so why not throw in the towel early and homeschool.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

thanks for the thoughtful comments

I think the pre-questions posed by the forum planners pre-suppose that the situation is fixable and that the solution is quasi-market fundamentals. I agree with all of your points. From my point of view, it seems like the biggest problems are that (1) there is a vast and preoccupied administrative wing of the school system that is completely focused on discipline while at the same time avoiding litigation, (2) the curriculum is based on central planning and politically-minded dictates, and (3)there is no non-subjective way to measure and reward success or demote and punish failure without legal repercussions

For the record, I currently have no children and am strongly considering home-schooling. In my opinion, the only advantage to public schooling is the exposure to and learning to deal with social situations.

Thank you. To be sure, I

Thank you.

To be sure, I strongly believe in standards. But the issue in education is whose standards. I believe that the only standards that matter are the parents' standards. As far as I'm concerned, every school can have its own standards. A parent can then decide what standards are most closely allignednwith their own. If you read John Taylor Gatto's book The Underground History of American Education you will develope a greater appreciation for what this means. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0945700040?cache=1390888820&pi...

Good luck to you.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

"human capital", is that like slave labor.

"attract the right candidates". Check out the Venus fly trap and angler fish.

Will liberty be a topic of discussion?

Will obedience to Dept of Education commands be discussed?

Will autonomy of local school districts and schools be encouraged?

I wonder how many of the planks of Marx's manifesto will be promoted?

I guess sarcasm is the best I can muster.

A teacher helps individuals teach themselves.

Educate in latin means "lead out". Where are the individuals willing to lead students out of the dark cave of ignorance.

Dead Poet Society 1991 is a dramatic look at education.

In Real life, Ron Paul educates. Be free, he challenges.

Free includes debt-free!

our gov is appealing to the R base

and going for a business approach and rhetoric.

Therefore, i revise my response (line 0); "human capital" is meant to suggest that the new regime will treat public sector decisions more in terms of economic/utilitarian terms.

I think we can all agree public education sucks, but, it could suck less in the meantime

Yes, institutions tend to be bad

Churches want to monopolize religion, schools want to monopolize education.

For free people, religion and education sometimes just happens out of the blue.

Ron Paul Curriculum

Free includes debt-free!







Too bad...


Like Plato's allegory of the cave?

Will definitely check it out

... right on

ecorob's picture

I think you will do just fine.

Good Luck!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

lol thanks

My close friend (wife) is actually the one invited to participate. She is very intelligent but avoids politics and confrontation and also has a very open mind. I would love to be at a forum with the governor and speak my mind on the numerous shortcomings of our educational certificate system.

I was hoping she could read a good discussion here and have a new perspective to plant liberty seeds in her particular network/area

End compulsory education and allow school choice

When a business no longer has captive customers, you'd be amazed at the innovation that can be devised to remain viable.

Sadly, it appears that the discussion points are oreiented towards maintaining the current school system, which increasingly has little to do with education.

thanks for the comment

I agree the discussion is geared to confine the debate to a very narrow range of "solutions". I am also thoroughly convinced of the advantages of a free market approach.

Our state govt is currently expanding the charter "competition" system and looking at vouchers. Doyou see this as a move towards free market principals or more crony favors or something else?

If the charter schools are accepting state funds, there will be

strings attached, if not at first, eventually, that will make them indistinguishable from other government schools. Crony favors sounds about right to me.

My sister lives in NC and her husband teaches there.
He was once a principal, but the politics got to be to much for him, so he moved back to the classromm and is counting the days until his retirement.


So how does my friend tactfully articulate that the entire system is flawed and do we advocate for a transition/compromise (in a similar way that Dr.P advocated for the optional out/end to social security scheme)

I'm fairly articulate, but have never claimed to be tactful.

Since some of the school budget depends on putting butts in seats, the kind of changes I'd advocate would likely not be well received, regardless of how artfully phrased.

I suppose if I had to make any argument in that venue, it would be a basic argument of freedom - to choose which school, if any, to use.

shamelrss bump for visibility