22 votes

I hope the State lasts forever

The title of this article is likely the most depressing statement that I've ever considered. To proclaim that Man will always be subject to the violent whims of the State for His own pathetic good is an extremely pessimistic statement, in my opinion. Man should aspire towards anarchy - to make the State as small as society will tolerate - until one day, hopefully, it is gone altogether.

Consider this question:

In your opinion, is the United States Central Government: A: Too Big; B: Too Small; or C: Just the Right Size ?

I would venture to guess that a great majority of people would answer with unwaivering certainty, A: The United States Central Government is Too Damn Big.

Accordingly, the will of the People should be aimed at reducing the size of the State - whether it be ending perpetual warfare, ending corporate welfare, or abolishing the the platform on which the tyrants stand - the Federal Reserve. All Americans have desires to stop certain actions of the current Central State. We should work together on those items - rather than fussing about our differences.

The State has grown much too large. Consider the following plot:

As the State spends more money, more people get locked up. Growing the State reduces freedom. This is what the graph demonstrates.

People often treat the State like a pet project. They will say, "We need the State to do this or that." "This or that" may range from feeding the poor to reeking havoc on Muslim populations with unmanned drone strikes. Folks that still believe they can limit the State fantasize that one day the State will be a glorious deliverer of virtuous justice.

Unfortunately, power tends to attract the crooked like shit attracts flies. While a noble goal, preventing the rise of tyranny in the presence of a State seems to be a near impossible task. As complacency grows, regular folks go about their business while the conniving formulate plots of malicious exploitation.

The State serves as a medium for everyone to screw everyone else. Hate blacks? Use the State. Hate Jews? Use the State. Hate competition? Use the State. Hate financially successful people? Use the State. The State is the tool of choice to exact revenge on groups that are disliked.

The State is a tool that capitalizes on negative reinforcement; punish people for doing wrong (or whatever happens to be unpopular at the time).

If one gives consideration to the work of B. F. Skinner, it is clear that positive reinforcement is also an important component of conditioning. I would argue that positive reinforcement is more powerful.

People should aspire to get rid of the State. The State is a manifestation of the violent and intolerant side of Man's nature. Wanting for it's perpetual existence is a depressing notion.

Man should aspire towards anarchy.

The State is not great.

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The good news:The State never lasts forever.

When the profit of repression exceeds costs the State collapses.

How many thousands of jurisdictions have succumbed in the modern era?

On might conclude that government is not possible judged by the failure rate.

The City of Detroit sold municipal bonds that matured with a dollar denominated profit.

The investor finances a government that will turn a profit?

Since governments don't produce anything, they profit by redistributing resources of those in it's jurisdiction for the investors.

Why do we submit to being fleeced and eaten?

Free includes debt-free!

It doesn't have to take forever

If 67,000,000 people sign up by November, 2016 I'll turn the whole thing around: http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/index.pl

The shortest, quickest possible path to Individual Liberty is for each individual who wants Freedom to Be Free.

God's Will is Free Will; Freedom is my Worship Word!

Freedom is my Worship Word!

Cyril's picture

The state is eventually going to get its butt kicked.

The state is eventually going to get its butt kicked.

Badly kicked.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture



prime numbers.


"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I could also show you a graph

I could also show you a graph of how incarceration has gone up with increased GDP. Therefore, increased economic prosperity causes increased incarceration!

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Likely not with an R^2 vallue of 0.99


Cyril's picture

Except chances are pretty good the GDP figures are cooked

Except chances are pretty good the GDP figures are cooked, considering their lame excuses for changing the way to compute it (the GDP).

How convenient and coincidental, btw, a few years after 2007/2008, when many (pain-in-the-butt skepticals - those'd include myself) start questioning seriously whether there is an actual positive growth, or if it's just standard governmental statistician bullshit...

While I doubt they'd purposedly inflate the stats of incarcerated people just for the fun of it.

Quite the opposite.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Raining on anarchy parade.

Wow, where to begin.

So these are some deep statements you've made that presuppose truths that have not been established.


The nature of our existence.

How people ought to be 'governed' depends foremost on our relationship with nature and reality. Is there a God and an ordained order to the universe, or are we the natural outcome of deterministic or random processes?

How the future will play out, how we ought relate to each other, etc., depend on this question.


Assuming we are the natural product of random or deterministic processes, and are essentially animals stuck on a small planet, the question then becomes:

Can we expand and find other 'empty' places to live, or are we all stuck on earth with a rapidly growing population?


If we are stuck on earth, the next question is:

Can technology solve the problem of all of us getting everything we want without violating each other's physical space, or are we stuck in conflict and destined to a zero sum game over resources?


If we are stuck in a zero sum conflict over resources, what is the ethically correct way to behave? What basis or ground is there for any moral system that requires we put others' interests and rights equal alongside out own?


If there is no such moral system requiring us to grant others the same rights or consideration as ourselves, is there some self interest or other motive causing us to do so in the long run?


If there is such a long run set of mutual interests we all share, what reason do we have to behave in accord with this long run set of interests rather than cheat and take advantage if we can, for short term, selfish interest?



1. European states are bigger and more 'public,' more socialized, yet don't lock up more people.

2. 'Power' attracts scum bags. True. But eliminate the state, and you still have Power. Power is with us forever, and disparities of wealth and power remain with us, with or without the State. Eliminate the state, and it's head pops up somewhere else, like wack-a-mole. Disparities of wealth, ability, power - basic human inequality - can express itself in violence at any time.

Limiting the use of violent power is not a 'one off' thing, like killing a dragon. It is an ongoing procedure of limiting the corruption and abuse of economic and social power and turning it into violence. It is a forever changing process, not a one time event.

3. The state is a tool. Humans can create tools at will. You can eliminate nuclear weapons, but if someone gains the power and has the knowledge to re-create it, nothing stops them. If you eliminate the state, someone with the power and knowledge to re-create it is free to do so. Where is the proof or theory that suggests removing the state once removes it for all time. Where is there reason to believe that absence of the state creates conditions that don't lead to a new distribution of power and a new state?

Michael Nystrom's picture

Clever use of title


I've finally managed to pinpoint my problem with anarchy in way that I can express it succinctly enough. Basically: You really have to have an educated populace to pull it off!

And we don't. So it is difficult for me to envision it.

Maybe I need a better imagination.

I can imagine it among Daily Paulers.

Group dynamics is important.

I don't know if it is possible on a mass scale. The incentive to cheat is too great. The only real incentive against cheating is social pressure. In large, anonymous populations like we have - in cities - I think the incentive to cheat will always be there.


That is an utterly disgusting chart. I remember raging against Bush in 2004. I was all for Kerry in 2004. I voted absentee from Taiwan. Again, the election looked fishy. They just do things blatantly now. The 2000 Election, 9/11, The 2004 Election,

There is a Prince song - The United States of Division that begins,

2004 and we're still at war.

Well, now it is 2014 and we're still at war.

That song is timeless.

Man seems always to be at war.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

"Man seems always to be at

"Man seems always to be at war."

Speaking of war I just watched a documentary about WW2 called "The War" on Netflix. It really brought home to me the hellishness of war and the stupidity.

Something I didn't realize was the amount of racism there was in the USA at the time. How they segregated the troops and when they got desperate they drafted the Japanese whose parents were in internment camps into the war. I don't remember any racism where I grew up and it was shocking to me how prevalent it was at the time.

It was odd that we were essentially fighting a war that was caused by racism, the German master race trying to take over the world and kill off a race they believed was inferior and the Japanese who seemed to hate any other race equally.

I would highly recommend this documentary and if you are not left shaken by it I would be surprised.

Michael, you hit the nail on the head!!!

You absolutely do need "an educated populace to pull it off!"

And you do need a better imagination because it's happening now, right under our noses!!!

In fact, I tried to engage you to make the connection in your earlier post that you labeled "dumb", whereas I found it quite profound.

Let me repeat what was stated in that video...

"The internet is the biggest culture shift in the history of human beings. We’re living through it so we can’t contextualize it, but we are grossly underestimating what’s happening."

I said at the time I couldn't express enough how right he was. Take just one person, myself for example... Thanks in large part to the DP I've gone from apolitical, to libertarian, to full-blown anarchist during my span here.


This IS the biggest culture shift in the history of human beings. We are becoming educated. And even if it takes a couple hundred more years to learn the morality of anarchism on a mass scale, that is still a rapid shift relative to the span of humanity.

And yes, the incentive to cheat will always be there, but so will the internet or some form of it to maintain "an educated populace to pull [anarchism] off." The world has forever changed. The jig is up. Game over! Most people just don't realize it because we are living through it, without precedent in which to compare. Anarchism can and will work for the first time in history, and it's all because of the internet.

Likewise, I'll say it again...

In today's rapidly globalized society, humanity is long overdue to reassess its most deeply guarded views, namely political and religious that have traditionally been predetermined primarily based on geography.

How will history remember you?

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

TwelveOhOne's picture

New planetary brain wiring

The internet is a new form of consciousness. It enables us to experience the thoughts of others, far away around the world. In the Babylon 5 thread someone posted an IMDB link to "Sense8", which just had a short blurb about the plot: "A group of people around the world are suddenly linked mentally, and must find a way to survive being hunted by those who see them as a threat to the world's order."

This sounds a lot like what is happening on this site: we are all linked mentally, and are a threat to the New World Order.

Educating the populace is the most important thing right now. If we can educate, we can provide them with a means for peaceful revolution -- recalling the words of JFK, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Here's to staving off inevitability!

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

Beware Of Another Type Of Planetary Brain Rewiring Underway

If the NWO progresses much further, I think one of the most sought after skillsets will be people who can advance 'transhumanism', and the creation of robots which can exceed all of mans capabilities.

This is a most disconcerting scenario as the powers that be may likely (ultimately) prefer partnering with robotic intelligent beings over us antiquated traditional human beings.

Any ideas on how to stop this? Could it be done through the state? Through anarchy?

- AMAZING PHOTO delineating where UNRESTRAINED CAPITALISM has taken us: http://www.rense.com/general96/whatare.html
- "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."-- Mohandas Gandhi

"The only real incentive against cheating is social pressure.

In, large, anonymous populations like we have - in cities - I think the incentive to cheat will always be there."

In my opinion, local pressure is more acceptable than pressure from a universal "authority" ruling over huge expanses of diverse people. For example, the population of New York City is over 8 million while the population of Oklahoma - as a state - approaches only 4 million; however, I think most would agree that residents of NYC have no business determining how Oklahoma is governed. One-size-fits-all government is a failing idea.

I think most can agree that the State is too big. Personally, I want to do something about it. I'd like to start abolishing clearly unnecessary parts of the system. Once that is done, the merits of what's left can be discussed.

"You really have to have an educated populace to pull it off!"

That's right! We need to educate people. anarchy is a long term goal. People didn't suddenly stope believing in the "Divine Rights of the Kings". It took time to go from it to a small government republic.
The Small government republic experiment failed. It is the nature of the beast to get bigger. Anything that stop growing, start to die. I don't see how a bunch o cheaters in charge of the state will stop the rest of us from cheating.

If man wasn't susceptible to greed...

I'd say anarchy would have a good chance.

So, doee the state eliminates the results of greed?

I don't think so.

The minimal government necessary to protect life, liberty and

property; which would probably be closer to minarchism than anarchy.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I don't care for

Anarchy or the State. I haven't figured out what it would be or what to call it, need more time to consider this.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.


For a well written piece.

allegory - ˈalɪg(ə)ri/ - noun - 1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.