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CERN Wants a New Particle Collider Three Times Larger Than the LHC

Not content with the 27-kilometre-round Large Hadron Collider, researchers at CERN have their sights set on a new beast of a particle collider that could have a circumference of 80 to 100 kilometres.

The nuclear research organisation announced that it was hatching plans for an ambitious successor to the LHC with an international study called the Future Circular Colliders (FCC) programme, which will kick off with a meeting next week.

The idea is to consider different hadron collider designs similar to the existing LHC but more powerful—much more powerful. CERN wrote it was looking for a collider “capable of reaching unprecedented energies in the region of 100 TeV.” The existing LHC will reach a maximum of around 14 TeV (tera electron Volts).


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Just do the math

F•Δx = T•ΔS
Experimental model of a polymer string.

ΔS = 2πkc•mΔx/h

T = ħa/2πck
The Unruh temperature seen by a body with
an acceleration ’a’ is given by T = ħa/2πck, where ħ is the reduced Planck’s
constant, c is the speed of light and k is Boltzmann’s constant.

Newton’s Law

F = ma

More detail here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDAJinQL2c0#t=2535

Are there three entropic forces?
Strong, weak and gravity.

Free includes debt-free!

when I came to comprehend Thermodynamics..

many more doors were opened.

the Sun is made of Plasma, and if, as an example.
ordinary fire is Plasma.

then, it follows that Plasma can generate a magnetic field.

when I came to that conclusion... well, at first I thought of a duckbill platypus...
always remember that "god" has a sense of humor.

Resist Entropy!!!

I enjoyed that clip very much. I wonder how the Golden Mean, Golden ratio and Fibonacci figure in....

Quite right!The universe is singing. Time for a sing along

Have you met Ray Toombs?


The pedal note has a wavelength of 8x10^23 years.

Free includes debt-free!

they should study

the electric universe theory instead of wasting money,it is the only theory that makes sense. but thats the problem with science sponsored by the state, like the state it doesnt change.


The search for the ultimate economic black hole.

The Keynesian solution to personal woe.

Free includes debt-free!

How much

would it cost?

I'd guess 100+ Billion

And its likely the last to ever be built, the LHC is built on top of an older smaller collider, which is also built on top of an even older, smaller one... Each increase in size is defined by a specific math formula that states the increase in size is exponential. I'm not sure how many more upgrades they could still do and remain on earth but I believe it was 2 BEFORE the LHC. So this next upgrade is likely the largest that can be built on earth, the next upgrade after that would be around the orbit of the moon or so, and then after that the entire solar system. I believe I saw this on a Ted Talk prior to the LHC coming on-line.

At $100 billion, it would be less than a tenth as expensive as

the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

And even if nothing was ever accomplished with it, it would be infinitely more useful than those wars were.

If we consider it on that scale it would be quite a bargain.

Hm. And less expensive than

Hm. And less expensive than OBAMACARE.

If you walk blindly through life, you will run into a lot of walls.

I'm still trying to figure out the graviton

or whatever gravity is. Serious questions - what exactly is the speed of gravity? And is it constant?

More serious questions - will we ever 'make it' to absolute zero?
What's the freakiest thing happening at near absolute zero?

Bose-Einstein Condensate

from what I remember..we achieved it in 93.

and the particle, turned into a wave,
it was in Colorado under a mountain.

gravity has yet to be understood.

You know I am all for basic

You know I am all for basic research like this, but they just got that one working not too long ago, relatively speaking.
If they want a new one, they are going to need to wait a couple decades anyway. That how long it takes to design and build all the parts. Plus actually excavating the tunnels takes time.
I think they need to continue research with what they got a while before they get something bigger.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

The Church of Science.

Where all funds go into an eternal ring where they may hopefully fall into a Black Hole, or somesuch. And somehow find a Higgs Boson!

Sadly, you can't mine Higgs Bosons.

I believe in the freedom to be what we choose to be.

Are you implying it's like leprechauns' gold?

"Sadly, you can't mine Higgs Bosons."

Perhaps not yet, but there is still hope.

There is a free market solution. ;) They probably would find a way to mine Higgs bosons if CERN marked the end of outsourced public funding, if their capability to fund a new collider were dependent on the success of their current one. If they've actually discovered such a thing, why can't they mine it? Spending as much money and effort to build CERN shows the Higgs boson to be an item in high demand. Just think of how such a commodity could revolutionize the futures market! :D JPMorgan and GoldmanSachs would probably empty their pockets or perhaps issue newly created Higgs derivatives in attempts to outbid each other to secure exclusive rights in financing a new collider to better acquire and corner the boson market.

Stephen Hawking

changed his theory about black holes. This is getting ridiculous.


But as long as scientist believe in theory of relativity they will do crazy things like this. They really think they can prove this crazy theory, all they need is more money...and if that is not enough, more money will solve the problem, but never rethink the theory.

"I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e. on continuous structures. In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, and of the rest of modern physics." Albert Einstein in 1954

Crothers cuts to the chase.

Hawkings' conversion from "event" to "apparent" is anodyne to my mind. ;)

SteveMT's picture

As if Europe wasn't bankrupt all ready, this project will do it.

King Ludwig bankrupted Germany by building Neuschwanstein for Wagner. This new ring will do the same thing to Europe. The castle can at least be visited and the amount of work put into it appreciated. Neither the existing collider nor the planned new one have any esthetic value.

They did manage to find a

They did manage to find a boson though. That doesn´t have any value?

SteveMT's picture

There are needs and wants in this world.

Finding the boson with the small ring was a need, but this bigger ring is clearly a want.

If even just to avoid all the bickering

If even just to avoid all the bickering over the distinction between "needs and wants in this world", it's clearly time to consider building any new colliders... in outer space. ;)

SteveMT's picture

That is a very practical idea, John. Will they buy it?

In space, there would be no need for vacuum pumps or liquid helium. No magnetic fields would be needed either if they used the earth's or the moon's gravitational field to keep the beams focused. They would need an energy source, a detector, and a communication link. You have a good idea!

There is a better way to do this with lasers

Not only can this be done with ultrafast lasers for a tiny fraction of the cost but more experiments are possible with an ultrafast laser configuration that are not possible with that configuration.

Not only that but they are on the wrong track altogether. The standard model is DOA.

As always a thinker outside of the academic world with NO institutional funding destroyed their model:


The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Downvote? Are you kidding me?

Looks like the down voter may fall into same category of scientists who said heavier than air flight is not possible.

These electromagnetic based particle accelerators cannot even come close to what is possible with ultrafast laser generated magnetic fields especially when the right optical geometry is applied.

Also, in Haramein's model, the scaling laws demonstrates the accuracy of his theory and demonstrates exactly how gravitational time dilation accounts for the relative mass measurements.

I found similar results to Harameins on my own totally independently of his work but I was working at the photon cavity level not the proton. The thing that I realized before I learned of Haramein's work is that the key is that if one radiates outward in all directions the final destination is from within. This is key and I am not even sure if Haramein himself has realized that this is what he is saying.

This concept is the 4d equivalent to realizing the Earth is not flat but a round sphere. The 4d spacetime is also round in the sense that if one travels inward they will arrive from all outward directions just like if someone on Earth (assuming a perfect spherical Earth) walks in straight line their destination will be right back where the started. Same situation goes for 4d and the implications are absolutely mind blowing. From this realization one can clearly see that the photon cavity is a gravitationally time dilated relativistic cavity that makes specific orbitals as wave harmonics. The picture I have in my DP profile is from a computer program I wrote to demonstrate the gravitationally dilated photonic cavity. The picture I have there is the 5th harmonic cavity. I call this cavity the fractosphere but what is shown is only one time slice of hypertemporal fractal cavity.

There is much more to this and I am absolutely convinced at this point that the standard model is simply a set of mathematical mechanics of what they see from their particle experiments but does not even come close describing what is actually going on.

I believe Haramein has found the correct solution but I also know he has not completely revealed the full extent of his work yet. I think that the fractosphere will intersect with his work to describe the gravitationally dilated photonic cavity at some point but I have not gotten there yet.

So I think you down vote is pre-mature and unfounded.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

its just a downvote :)

maybe it doesnt matter if you do the wrong experiments with a particle accelerator or a laser. if the foundation is wrong, nothing will come out of it.
I like Nassim Harameins but I think his work if flawed because it relies too much on general relativity. He believes in white and black holes...

a symptom of his zeal,

that which I admit to somewhat enviously adore

a better way to do what?

scan holographic membrane surface horizons of black holes for x, whereas x = ?..
...1) Schwarzschild mass
...2) primordial antihydrogen
...3) quark-gluon plasma
...4) "cleanly" collided Higgs bosons
...5) "freshly" dropped unicornish scatons
...6) subterranean homesick bluons

I gaurantee this man is not talking to a scientific audience

He has some scattered points throughout that are relevant but much of what he is saying is clearly misinterpretations of the work which is even right in his own slides.

I personally also totally reject the big bang and have forever. I knew the history of its source and have always rejected the big bang to its source. Just like I totally reject dark matter and dark energy due to its source being a fill in the gap mathematically.

I totally disagree with Crothers on the Black hole issue not just because of Haramein's work but because of my own. I have found the most important reason ever for disinfo agents to steer people away from black holes. I am not saying Crothers is a disinfo agent but I can tell you that Black Holes are likely what the proton actually is and it is likely that we can utilize these black holes as both a spatiotemporal navigational tool, possibly as a communication tool and possibly even use the black hole proton as a real working stargate.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

How would you define "scientific audience"?

He is certainly speaking to a large group. He makes it clear in the fourth minute that his presentation is tweaked to hold interest among those who are not advanced to his degree in mathematics.

"much of what he is saying is clearly misinterpretations of the work which is even right in his own slides"

What exactly are you referring to as "right"? As "interpretation" is the relatively least scientific moment of the process we can call "science", Crothers' interpretations will invariably be deemed misinterpretations by others, as he's claiming others' interpretations to be misinterpretations. There ain't no way around that, fer sure!

Two scientists calculate an equation for the acceleration of gravity. One sees it as an aspect of how God pushes objects toward hell. The other sees it as an aspect of how Satan pulls objects toward himself. Another might see the ground [and entire universe sans apple] rising toward an apple.

All theoretical calculation is ultimately extrapolated from observationally derived calculation. Crothers' mastery is in pinpointing divergence of the theoretical, thus the equations he presents are inherently a mix of what are to be deemed "right" and "wrong". That is entirely his endeavor here.


"In developments over the past decade event horizons have been demonstrated to be dynamically fluctuating regions at a scale where quantum mechanical effects occupy a central role." -Haramein

It is sad that theoretical Physicists don't qualify the term "demonstrate" with an adjective like "virtually", or that they don't use an entirely different term altogether [calculate?]. It is certainly possible to mathematically "demonstrate" the universe to rotate about a static earth. Do a word search for "demonstrate" in Haramein's paper. He clearly enjoys adjoining the term "clearly" to "demonstrate". This, however subtle, ultimately has the opposite effect from my hypothetical of his using "virtually". It makes me question just how deeply he believes in the reality of his theoretical paradigm.


a personal side note...
I have upvoted two of your comments on this page thus far and have issued no downvotes. When it's all said and done, I'm actually likely to have upvoted all your comments as I find all of them to have played a role in clearly demonstrating to me that which some may refer to as transference of quantum spark from you to me [that is, if it may be appropriate to use the prepositions "from" and "to" in a case which might be more conventionally deemed as simultaneous]. :D


Scientific Audience- An audience well versed in mathematics and relativistic physics

"right" - sloppy commentary English for 'directly' in his slides

As far as my "zeal". My apologies. I have clearly demonstrated that I am virtually rough around the edges and will happily admit to that. ;D lol

All I can say about Haramein is that it is completely eerie to me how similar his conclusions are to my own independent findings.

When I say independent findings I mean totally independent because I first began down the path of the Fractosphere from tripping on Hawaiian woodrose seeds and nature revealed the Fractospheres around every piece of matter I looked at for the entire 16 hour trip. Nature also clearly told me that these spherical shapes are "the shape of gravity". Many examples came from this trip instantly and I even have a whole group of witnesses who were present for my epically profound eureka moment with me describing things like the concept of radiating outward having a destination from within relating back to the example back to walking in straight line on Earth being the right back where one started and even pointing to the sky and saying that if I were to point to a black hole in one part of the sky that I would be pointing to the inside of a star on the on the other side of the sky. 4D is round. That was the basic gist of the vision but the Fractosphere shape was perfectly clear and the geometry was perfectly exact with no exceptions.

This began a 7 year journey (spare time) to finally realize the computer program model of the Fractosphere model I have screenshot of in my DP profile picture. Nearly two years after I completed the program model I then discovered Haramein's work and then when he pointed out the mass of the proton being the mass of the entire known universe I instantly realized that Haramein was saying the same thing I had realized tripping and what my calculations had revealed.

I also had an invention back in 1998 (before any of this) that I had no idea what it was but the universe literally smacked me upside the head with a vision (not tripping) of a very precise geometrical laser optical setup that I did not know what it was even for. I have numerous notebooks filled with drawings and notes that clearly show various experiments and questions with possible uses that range from optical engines to novel energy generation to dozens of others possible applications. That geometric optical setup haunted me for years not knowing exactly what nature was telling me.

Then about 3 months ago nature finally told me EXACTLY what the optical system is for and it turns out that it has several different highly useful applications. The prime one being a very specific particle accelerator that could possibly be used to open the black hole proton to form a possible stargate. The stargate concept being real fluffy and unprovable (and totally dependent on the proton being a Black Hole) without actually building this device, I am now looking at the other easily provable applications that includes the most powerful laser amplification system ever devised.

When I worked with a group at the University I went to, we published the world record (still standing) of power density in a power transistor and later I figured out a way to make that cooling method orders of magnitude beyond anything that University group ever conceived and I figured out how to apply this advanced cooling system to a novel laser amplification system in order to achieve (by FAR) the most powerful laser amplification technique ever done with that optical geometry and cooling method which correspondingly will create by far the strongest magnetic fields ever produced by man.
I then realized that these magnetic fields could then be used to produce the most advanced particle accelerator ever produced that could easily fit inside a normal sized room and built for around $10 million in parts.

Problem with all of this is that we live in a world where military psychopaths want to use this type of technology for world domination and enslavement of all mankind, so there is no hope of building such a device until I make enough wealth to actually build the damn thing myself in private. That wealth making is in process but will take about another 2 years to get there but I am on track.

So this is just a tiny glimmer of why I am so drawn to believe Haramein's work. The coincidences and overlapping independent work is way too similar to ignore for me personally. Maybe I am just nuts on this but my other advanced technologies that are proven give some validity to the fact that I am not totally nuts. The support I have of top level scientists of my other technologies also gives some reputable experience to my capabilities.

Again my apologies for the zeal. I like to believe it is just humble confidence.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...