22 votes

Anyone here not seen Loose Change?

Loose Change is on Netflix, I noticed the other night.

Is anyone's mind on the subject of 911 not made up? Anyone up to watching it?

- - -

I always like to ask people what they think happened on 911. It is interesting to hear answers. It is part of a screening mechanism, indeed.

Some people simply can't have their belief challenged on that issue -- believers on both sides of the issue.

The truth is we truly don't know what happened that day. There are a lot of conflicting stories. And people come to those stories with all their own biases and interpretations and world views of life. Everything gets run through the filter of life, and ultimately what is extruded is a belief. A belief about what happened. Even though there is no way to know the whole story: Who was controlling those planes and how? How did that whole operation go down?

And yet, most of us have beliefs. What are beliefs? Where do they come from? Why do they form? Why do people react so violently when they are challenged?

Beliefs are what make us humans, and not rocks.

Here's a little taster. Watch the first 2 minutes and see if you're not drawn in.

It is an AWESOME opening shot, with the picture of Manhattan with the two towers still standing. Shot with the Statue of Liberty.

That Manhattan is gone. We live in a different world.


http://youtu.be/CDx1GLqvBO8

Man those buildings were tall. Almost twice as tall as anything else out there. Like the Taipei skyline today, dominated by the Taipei 101.

I never saw the twin towers in person. I only got to New York after the fact.

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Michael Nystrom's picture

Bad idea, forget it

Some ideas are better at 3 in the morning than they are by the light of day.

"There are better things for me to spend my time on," he said just before closing comments on the thread.

The Daily Paul continues to exist only with your support. Please contribute to the the DP's Summer 2014 Fundraiser.

Which One?

I'd love to watch it, but IMDb lists at least 20 films titled "Loose Change". Which one is this?

I have heard that it isnt reliable from some truthers.

I have already made up my mind but I won't watch it because I have seen enough and I dont need any more help.

That being said, many folks have claimed to have debunked it, which isn't good for using it to wake people up. I liked a new pearl harbor because it spends alot of time trying to debunk the debunkers.

most presentations done by James Corbett are fairly well sourced.

As for what happened...

If Dick Cheney and the neo-cons were not in power, I do not believe it would have happened at all.

Séamusín

The Science is settled

Who does that sound like ?

SteveMT's picture

Loose Change is the most downloaded film in internet history.

So said executive producer of the film Tim Sparke in February, 2007. Is it still?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/feb/13/comment...

i noticed at the start where Dylan (the narrator) is talking

about Operation Northwoods, that mock funerals were in the plans. Makes one think of Sandy Hook?

Two Quotes

It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.
Epictetus

How did our nation (or powers that be) react?

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

I think its great that its on

I think its great that its on Netflix and has a good star rating. Most Americans would not bother to 'youtube' it but if your flipping though Netflix and see the movie with high ratings it gives it more credence. Once you realize that we have been sold a complete lie regarding 911 then all the pieces of the police state, DHS, Patriot Act, Endless Wars suddenly gets shifted into focus and you see the bigger picture of what's actually happening in this country.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

One could write a book

on the contradictions of the official story of 9/11..and surely there have been some written.

The insider futures trading on 9/10/2001 is enough of a smoking gun, but a critical piece of the puzzle if anyone hasn't come across it is the fact that the last known location of Flight 93 and the passengers aboard was at the Cleveland airport.

Whole airport was evacuated on the morning of 9/11 due to a report that a hijacked plane was landing there; people weren't allowed to drive home, they had to walk or hitchhike; it took something like two hours for the supposed hijacked plane to be searched and emptied of it's passengers which does not make sense in such a dire situation. I believe the audio transmissions of flight 93 are still available on YouTube.

jrd3820's picture

Beliefs

I only watched a little of Loose Change. Why? Because as you stated, my mind is already made up on 9/11 and after numerous articles, books, and documentaries I just became bored with all of it a while ago.

I believe we will never know exactly what happened that day. That being said, I don't think that that means people should stop searching for the answers if they want to. I think for me, it is enough to know that there was inside manipulation of the event from our own government. The details don't matter to me so much as the bigger picture of the government assisting in the set up of this event.

I also think that that is what is most important for newly awakened people to understand. Even if it is as minor as them understanding the basic principle of blowback theory and that is as far as they go with it, that is good enough in some cases unless again the person chooses to investigate further.

Beliefs surrounding this event are so sensitive because once you realize that a governing body that you have believed in working for your benefit your whole life could/would do something like this, it changes your world and all the sudden you wonder what else they could or would do and that leads to some very scary conclusions.

9/11 truth was such a touchy subject with the younger people I met on campuses during the height of the movement. It's not so much that they didn't believe that the government was involved or didn't want to believe that, it's that it's a huge tangled scary web that isn't easily explained or understood, and if they ask the wrong person the wrong question whether in an online forum setting or in the real world they risk being called a SCHILL!!!!! or whatnot/fill in the blank. Or if it takes them a little bit longer to really absorb some of it, again....they are mocked.

But this is a quite a life changing piece of information so the beliefs around it might and should take people a while to process. This isn't like saying 'I believe social programs are good because they help the poor' and then reading more into how and why social programs can actually hurt some of the people they are trying to help and changing your beliefs because you connected a few dots.

This is believing that even if you don't like the congress that has been elected to represent you and the President, that at the end of the day they would never assist in mass murder of their own citizens, and then having that comfortable belief shattered.

That is scary, so the people new to the information might set up a defense wall and react strongly at first because it is not something they want to believe as it will change their whole way of thinking in some cases. The people who have spent time researching 9/11 react sharply when people don't listen because they have spent so much time researching and they believe they are right and people should just trust them.

Beyond finally coming to the conclusion that 9/11 had some inside help, there are the various theories on who/what/where/when/and whys.

It's not just 9/11 was an inside job, close the case. It's all the documentaries, and books, and articles, and reports from people of various backgrounds. It's a lot to sift through. And it's a depressing and scary lot to sift through.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Yeah

What she said.

On second thought, I don't think I'm watching this again. There are only so many hours in the day. More or less my mind is made up. I went through that phase and came through on the other side. And one look at the comments on this thread are reason enough to stay away.

Some ideas seem better at 3:00 am in the morning, when you should be sleeping but instead you're up with your flashlight, looking through the tubes of the internet.

So forget I brought it up.

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Loose Change deserves respect for breaking the silence

It was one of the very first videos to confront the crimes of 9/11.
Was it perfect?
Probably not.
Did it expose the pattern of pathology in government?
Absolutely!

There have been many versions

There have been many versions of loose change, is this the last one with Daniel Sunjata from the show "Rescue me" doing the narration?

I was stationed at McChord Air Force Base in Washington state when 9/11 went down and was deployed overseas 2 weeks later. On the way I passed through JFK International in New York City, and it was a trip seeing excited soldiers with their M16 rifles patrolling the airport. Even as an Airman I found those soldiers a bit unnerving, I couldn't imagine how the civilians felt. To have to contemplate the possibility the world is not a warm and fuzzy safe place is uncomfortable.

Lose Change

I watched loose change, but all the things said in that documentary are old pieces of information which debunking/skeptic sites already tried to give explanation to. Is there any piece of evidence or information in other documentaries mentioned here that hasn't been mentioned on popular skeptic/debunking sites? Please try to be specific because i don't intend to watch x more hours of same arguments i already heard.

Sorry for my redundant posts...

Again, I recommend watching "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" if you haven't done so already. I find it to be the most comprehensive documentary to date, being 5+ hours long! If you're looking for specifics, a full index is available at the following website for jumping directly to particular topics of interest:
http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?o...

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

fireant's picture

A five hour collection of all the same old bogus arguments, and

no structural evidence of controlled demolition. An example is the angled cut columns, which have been long shown to be clean-up cuts, and are contrary to the manner of collapse to begin with (top down), not to mention there are no slide marks. People who listen to this type propaganda without critical thinking and questioning are rightfully misled and confused. There is plenty to question about 911, but there are some things which can be known. It is long known fact there is no evidence of controlled demolition in the structural remains of all 3 buildings. They were thoroughly investigated, including looking specifically for signs of controlled demolition by the top structural engineer investigator in the country, Dr. Gene Corley, and no evidence of controlled demolition was found. Try to let that sink in. If the structural remains show no sign of controlled demolition, that means controlled demolition didn't happen. There are tons and tons of the remains available for study today. You can look for yourself. You should ask yourself why this doc and none of the conspiracy sites have ever done a comprehensive study of the remains in order to corroborate controlled demolition.

Undo what Wilson did

William Rodriguez

witnessed bombs going off in the basement of the North Tower.

He heard a loud noise

Not the same thing, liar

"no evidence of controlled demolition was found"?

What about A&E for 9/11 Truth that found evidence of nanothermite by spectrometer debris analysis? Sure, we can question their conclusions, methodology and trustworthiness etc. I don't know, I'm not a scientist and I wasn't physically there to monitor their processes from start to finish to definitively know for sure.

That's just one example. My point is that it would be irresponsible to make a blanket assertion that there was "no evidence" when clearly there is, regardless of what we individually choose to believe is true or not.

For me, the thing I have the hardest wrapping my head around is the near free-fall speed and symmetrical collapse into the footprint of all three buildings. Again, I'm not a scientist but I would expect the top-half of each building to kink at the asymmetrically damaged areas and topple over, with minimal damage to the lower portion. Or, at the very least visually witness a rapid deceleration of collapse that is easily reproduced with a basic experiment of physics (Example: here).

I have yet to hear a convincing argument that explains these anomalies.

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

fireant's picture

Both tops of the Towers fell OVER. Have you not even watched

collapse video? Both were gradual deformations of the wall which collapsed; south wall for the North Tower, and east wall for the South tower. Each fell in that direction. Let me ask you, what was the pivot point for each tower top at collapse? Do you assume it was a solid shape such as a tree being felled? Have you studied construction design of the towers? The pivot point was the opposite wall from collapse direction. The tops pivoted until the pivot point broke and the tops had no place to go but straight down from there. Draw it out on a napkin. It's simple shapes. There is no way the tops could have toppled over and left the lower portions intact. It would have to have pivoted on the collapsing wall, which would have required a space shuttle engine mounted on the other side to make it topple over to the side without destroying the lower portion.
So where did all the tops go? Straight down through the towers. The tops broke up as they collapsed; it can be seen in video. There were tons and tons of steel perimeter wall slicing down through the tubes; between core columns and between the core and perimeter walls. Comparing it to a 12 pound ball falling into 1/4 inch glass layers is no comparison. The proportion would be more like several anvils plunging down into the glass panels.

Undo what Wilson did

fireant's picture

Ask yourself a VERY simple question

If nano thermate or ANY other means of artificial dismemberment were used, how is it there are no cut structural members in the debris? How is it ALL structural members show they broke apart at their connections?
And no evidence of nanothermite was found. What was found was iron micro spheres in the dust. Jones made the totally UNscientific leap that ONLY thermate could produce iron micro spheres, which is not only contrary to scientific inquiry, it is a lie. Rust reverts to iron at it's boiling point of 572f. Did Jones consider rust? NO. The floor pans were littered with iron micro spheres during construction. Did Jones consider that a source of iron micro spheres? No. This is what I refer to as viewing this material with your critical eye, and not your biased eye. You are easily swayed with nonsense when have no objectivity.

Undo what Wilson did

Evidence has to be factual

or it is not evidence.

The magic pixie dust supposedly found by Jones is not evidence of anything, other than how a skewed belief system can ruin a decent scientist.

His speculation on his inconclusive results is not evidence of anything.

You're picking a bone of contention

What you may call "magic pixie dust" is presented as fact by others. Believe me, I get it and I'm simply acknowledging so in my response. My point was that I believe it's unfair to make a blanket statement of "no evidence" while being the judge of what's admissible, because everyone has their own opinion when it comes to "the evidence". Let's not beat a dead horse. My example (found by Jones?) was just that, an example to illustrate a point of contention.

I hope this clears any confusion? Moving on...

Instead, this is why I prefer to examine what we can all clearly see what happened from the videos available, since that is "evidence" of much less contention. We're not all scientists and seeing is believing.

Likewise, when I see a real-world (NOT computer!) simulation such as the one I linked that contradicts what we saw on 9/11, I find it much more compelling. Now, I'm sure many will claim there is a simple explanation for these anomalies. To those people I say, talk is cheap. SHOW ME!

How can a mass meet resistance (because nobody to my knowledge claims EVERY floor below the impact was weakened - hence, resistance must be present) and not demonstrate the same rapid deceleration, for ALL three buildings nonetheless, that we can clearly see in the physics experiment video?

No conspiracy talk. No pixie dust. I'm simply asking where's that counter-demonstration video?

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

You haven't really answered

You haven't really answered my question :( .

I glanced at the list and found the same old arguments which just dilute the picture (for example, no cell phone calls could have been made from the plane, when we know that this just plainly isn't true).

I guess my question still stands, and it is a sincere question.

I believe I did answer your question, given the situation

You asked for specifics without identifying any yourself. I can't read your mind and I'm not about to throw darts in the blind. I have no idea what you've seen and even if I did I couldn't possibly be expected to remember the details of every argument made in all these documentaries to offer what you consider "new" material. Sound reasonable?

Thus this is why I offered the index, so you can pick and choose to your discretion and make that determination for yourself.

That said...

You mentioned the cell phone calls. The relevant portion of the documentary can be found here:
http://youtu.be/O1GCeuSr3Mk?t=1h38m35s

Again, I can't possibly be expected to know if you're aware of any counter arguments made in this clip that you're not already privy to.

I will say this about phone calls from airplanes since you bring it up... I'm a private pilot (as divulged on several posts in the past) and I can tell you for a fact from first hand experience that as late as 2007 I was unable to get a mobile signal while flying over the SF metropolitan airspace at above 4k feet AGL. Perhaps this was not the case in the areas of question back in 2001. Take what you will from that but for me, your assertion of what "we know" to be fact doesn't hold true.

Again, if you haven't seen "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" I highly recommend you give it a chance to possibly offer something you haven't seen or heard before.

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

Nutjobs.

That's what they are. Just watch the debate they had with Popular Mechanics guys.
That's probably all you need to know.
Loose change is bullshit.

I recommend viewing the doc I posted below

It goes into a deeper analysis of the debate you mention and arguments presented by Popular Mechanics.

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

Most complete 911 documentary to date...

In my opinion "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" offers the most comprehensive analysis of 911, by examining the arguments of both truthers and debunkers. Full documentary HERE. Trailer:

http://youtu.be/OmM4Tra-rg0

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

Thanks for posting

I haven't seen the film. My mind isn't made up. I have read enough to know there is more to the story than our government lets on...

xoxo,
Mrs_GRB

SteveMT's picture

So many holes are in the "official story" that it is laughable.

That is the point to focus upon. What the government says happened on 9/11 is pure baloney. The theories as to what actually happened that day is the contentious part. Whether there were planes, no planes, laughing Israelis, demolitions, missiles, laser weapons, or thermite is not as important as categorically stating that the official story is totally invalid.

In a flash, the government could at least end all of the conjecture about what hit the Pentagon by releasing the videos that have been in their possession since 9/11. They have refused. The fact that they haven't already screams-out that they were complicit in this treachery, with Cheney giving the orders for NORAD to stand down. The government stating that "no one could have foreseen planes being hijacked and flown into buildings" is also complete bunk.

The internet exposed all of the government lies and is the most powerful truth weapon that exists in this world.