24 votes

Typical Israeli behavior - throw Israel out of any World Cup or any Olympic games

This shows how Israeli people show their courage.
What they have done to the Palestinian players speaks loudly.

Why would anyone support Israel. Are they really entitled to the land they say is theirs. It belongs to Palestine.

This is typical, read the Old testament.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/178642/after-latest-incident-i...

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Ah, another ADL move,

Make it personal, attack the other person, then change the subject. You're good. Now, to which zionism do you refer: political, religious, socialist, or territorial?

You just did exactly what you projected on me...

You attacked me personally, and changed the subject.

Define Zionism. One definition. Go..

*Edit - Still waiting for a definition to the term you label people with to pour hate on them....

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

ZIONISM was basically the belief in and support for

a homeland for the jews, in the beginning, and I support that. Over time, it has morphed into something quite different. It now seems like an almost bizarre Kazarian philosophy which includes murder, maiming, controlling other countries(while constantly begging for money), apartheid, stealing land, starving people, blackmail, etc. Need I go on?
Now this is not to say that all Judaists are not good people, but I believe, sadly, that many have fallen for the lies.

Wow...just wow...

...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

stay out of the Kitchen.

if you can't take the heat.

What are you in 2nd grade?

..

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Zionism supports the rights for Jews' self determination

Which means, Jews own land, Jews farm land, Jews trade, Jews do what everybody does or doesn't, of the Jew's own free will, in PEACE.

The phrase, "anto-semite" is the problem, because it was relevant for Hitler and his genetic profiling, but the term is not valad today because today Israel exists and the world is aware that Jews come from many nationalities and races because that's what happened during the disporsa, Jews procreated outside racial tribes and now we have Chinese Jews and Black Jews (many who claim to be THE real Jews) and Latin Jews, and so semetic doesn't work anymore. It shows that the ADL, like AIPAC has aqn ulterior motive for "supporting" Israel. They profit off it. I'm all for profits, but it's a form of slavery, as if the Jew or Israeli can not speak for themselves, they need ADL.

Still, for his own generation, which Ron Paul is well awre what anti-semetic means, of course these groups are going to call him that because his support is no support. And Israel has taken NO USA money this year. America is going to be in for a wake up because realty is going to surface and Israel will prevail, I have no doubt. America? I don't know. Israelis have a unity that Americans lost after 911.

How can farmers farm in peace

if they farm on stolen land in which the previous owner was forced off the land at gun point?

How can you call that peace? Is that your honest idea of what "peace" is? That's a serious quesiton that I"m sure you'll dodge.

I don't defend the United States with that comment, either.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

They don't

Too many here refuse to educate themselves how property right work and don't work in the Mid East/ Islam (why there have been nomads and roaming tribes forever), the superimposed democratic/secilar authority/ the monarchys, the UN, the international treaties from the UN, and how that adds up to the fate of trans-jordan. Ever wonder why Palestine flies Jordan's flag? So what is the West Bank? What is the "disputer territory"? What deals are being made between Israel, Jordan and the UN which STANDS for Israel doing all the work of demoloshing farms, anceint orchards, and being that faming is communal, farmers share water river or ground, and predators and infestations migrate not giving a damn about boarders, so how do they work together?

Fruit and nut trees have a life span simular to animals, because both have peak production times, and when it comes to farming, peak production is what matters, and why you will see here in CA, "old" (not anceint) orchards get pulled. Orange county no longer has oranges, Valencia CA no longer has valencias.. Bakersfield has oranges among other crops. Crops get rotated and that includes orchards.

Sio when you see an anceint orchard getting pulled, you are looking at a low producing, high cost of maintenence.. nneds more water, needs more pruning or pesticide and as a farm goes, not worth it.

Meanwhile, Israel and Jordan have agreements that extend to "Palestine" (I say that because Israel/Jordan the disputed areas are all "Palestine" from the British occupation after WWII. Anyways, Israel has made agreements and developed desalination and alternative energy whcih the Palestinians pay far less than the Israelis.. there is training that goes on between the two, because of Israel's agricultural advancements in organic farming, they have had to train Palestinians farmers how to use insicts, like ladybugs instead of pesticides, and owls.. Arabs shoot owls because they are bad omens.. Israelis are breeding owls because they do a better job of rodent maintenence than poison and traps.

I don't believe I dodged your question, and I may be able to find some YouTubes if you are interested to back up what I have said about farming in Israel/Palestine.

Excuses?

I've been on DP a long time. I did not know, or understand what I now know about Israel, history, laws, culture, business, tech, military, politics, not did I understand the legal arrangements, from the establishment of Israel, to Israel's war on independence, from the Yom Kipper war, to the international treasties, Israel is a great topic to study.. I've enjoyed it, and I came to love Israel.

Many veiwponts expressed here by most people is what I used to think, so for me, DP is a look back.. an opportunity to look at what I thought and you may call it "excuse", because my experience is vortual, it is not like I was born in Israel or Jewish for that matter.

The propeganda against Israel is targetted at those who have issues with America, real or imagined, because all these treaties the US has signed is why and how the Patriot Act replaced the constitution. And why many people want to restore the constitution, they don't know how it works, they don't know Robert's rules of order to act at a committee, let alone run a committee.

In reality, Palestinians are paid, or coerced, to make a scene against Israel. It's a fricken sham brought to us by the "indy media of RT and Press TV and backed by communist (progressive) media in the USA (which includes YouTube).

I'm a zionist and that's not an excuse. I see what Israel is up against and I think there are many lessons there to be learned. If Israel ceased to exist, the West bank would become a ghost town.

Look...

What happened, what the border patrol in Israel did is unacceptable.

I am not anti-Israel like so many on here, and I know you are not as well, and appreciate that, but if the U.S. Border Patrol did something like this to a 'suspected Mexican drug-smuggler' or 'cartel member suspect' that turned out to be a member of the Mexican soccer team, it would be absolutely outrageous and no one, including you or me, would be trying to find justifications for it.

I support the existence of Israel, and I support my own country. But if my country's government does something unjust, or plain wrong, I do not support that action or look to excuse it. I look to try to fix it, to make my country a better place. I feel the same way about Israel. Israel is supposed to be beacon of relative freedom and prosperity in the middle-east region. It is supposed to be a place of just laws. As G-d wants it to be. If it is not that, then there is a lot of work to be done to fix that.

I don't disagree with you either, Granger, that many of the individuals with beef against are Israel are using it as a back-door attack on the U.S. and the West in general. I'm also totally against foreign aid, internationalism, and entangling alliances that are actually dragging Israel and the U.S. into each others' beefs too often.

Don't take my 'knock' on you too seriously. It is more meant to get those who have unwittingly bought into the anti-Israel propaganda to actually hear out my argument, which is actually quite different than yours, without first pre-judging it as 'another Granger argument'.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
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I don't agree

It's not the same as a Mexican drug smuggler. Those walls are not built because Israel can't think of better ways to spend money, but in their case, surrounded by Jihadists who have prooved too many times they will take every opportunity to "wipe Israel off the map", bomb buses, bomb establishments, attack people.. Israel needs to do whatever it needs to do, and if that brings on hell fire, then sobeit, but until then, being human, and faced with many lethal enemies, Israel has the right to self determine what makes the people of Israel safe. I think they do an outstanding job.

Many people support Israel for many different reasons.. AIPAC and ADL, I don't agree with either in their means of support, I don't agree with every evangecal or secularist, yet, we have something in common and that is to support Israel. Sure Isrel makes mistakes. America makes mistakes. To err is human. The world is not perfect, but to blame it on Israel? All that tells me is the person does not know what is Israel from an international legal perspective, they don't understand the treaties, the history, and many don't want to, but rather they have compssion and empathize with alternative media that is stagged by Russia and or Iran. I did not too far back, so I don't expect everyone or even anyone to see what I see.. but that does not mean that I will not share what I see.

I understand 'Mexican drug smuggler' isn't a perfect analogy...

And that Israel's situation is more dire.

But deliberately shooting into the feet of a teenager multiple times?
That is cruel and unusual. It also seems like too much of a coincidence, that they just happened to be on the international soccer team.

To err is to be human. Which is why I'm an individualist, and I don't blame Israel the whole nation and the entire cause for the brutal actions of a few emotionally riled up grunts who were being shot at a day or two earlier by the same group of people and so were probably PTSD as hell. But I'm sorry that is not how G-d commands us to act, and that type of thing is as I said, unacceptable.

This does not mean I am anti-Israel. That will not happen. Just like when I protest the actions of my own government does not mean I am anti-American. I want to better America, so that we may prosper. I feel the same about Israel.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Yes

Shooting the feet of a teenager who they knew. They didn't murder him, though I'm sure many people wish they would have because many people are sick of the constant attacks, knowing what Israel does for and provides (energy, water, fuel, food, education, jobs) to the Trans-Jordan AKA Palestinians occpying Sumaria and Judea under secular Roman Laws.. that instead of taking it up with Jordan, whose flag they fly, they skeek for alternative press because iot's just another form of income.

The way I see it, a cigarette smoking teen wasn't too serious about making it to the olympics as making a feature of himself in the name of "BAD ISRAEL".

I'm not judging whether you are ant-Israel or not. May sound wacko, but I do believe that is between each of us and our maker. Israel is a beacon of light in a world plunging into darkness.

I thank goodness I can chose to support Israel and only get downvotes and insults. There are many places in this world I would be made a refugee or beheaded.

deacon's picture

But,who fired first?

Who started the whole mess in the first place?
At this point,it matters not who does what to whom.
Something happened at one single point in time,something that made them enemies of each other
I do disagree with one of your points though,It does not take 2 to tango,it takes one bully,and another to finally get sick and tired of being bullied.
What I found troubling,was the fact they shot teenagers in their feet
It was almost like both sides have their team,and one decided to make sure their own team won.Why else do that? I have read nothing else about them finding a bomb.And if they did have a bomb,wouldn't their punishment been more severe than say,being shot in the feet?
D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Agreed the shooting into feet, if true, is just insane...

Totally unacceptable and the worst kind of example or precedent to set. It is just plain wrong and does not represent G-d like Israel should be doing.

These border patrol IDF guys were taking fire from "protesters" (they're not exactly just protesters anymore when they start shooting at you) just a few days earlier, so they must have jumpy and emotionally on-edge and unstable.

That is no excuse though. Israel should be far better represented than this kind of brutality.

That said, when police in the USA or our troops overseas commit violence or atrocities it does not mean the American people are evil and condone that. I hope people can understand that is not acceptable to the Israeli people as well, and one incident should not reflect on entire nation of people.

Unfortunately, if nothing is done to correct it, this does reflect on Israeli leadership.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

deacon's picture

I can agree with that

And that was my whole beef about this story,the way it was handled
I can imagine they were jumpy,upon reading your comment,I reflected back
about how I felt afterwards when the gang bangers did their drive by,I was a bit jumpy for a few days.when they didn't come back,i got bored :)
I hope you know well enough by now,my beefs are against most gov's,and not the people who live there.

D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

If you are asking whose land it was first?

Then please go read an ancient Torah scroll. Israel is over 3500 years old.

"Palestine" is what the Romans named the region after they conquered it over 2000 years ago. It always remained 'Israel' as far as Biblical standpoint. But from the standpoint of the conquering Romans and their subsequent empire, they named the land after the ancient biblical enemy of the Jewish people, the Philistines. In Arabic there is no 'f' or 'ph' sound, there is only 'p' sound, so Philistine becomes Palestine.

As far as who has been there... Well, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Arab pagans have been there for millennium. The Jews never left. The Pagans were always there too. Rome later converted all the empire to Christianity, so many pagans were converted to Christians. Then the rise of Islam and the Crusades. That pretty much got rid of the Arab pagans, now forced conversion to Islam. Back and forth between Christians and Muslims, all the while Jews remained there, though many dispersed across Europe before, during and after Crusades.

That was pretty much how it remained until WW2. I'll tell you one thing, the USA wouldn't allow those Jewish refugees to come here, but they brought in the Nazi brain-trust with open arms into the MIC.

Most of the European countries wouldn't let the Jews in either. So they went to their ancient homeland where many Jews had remained in peace, but which was now under British control. The Muslims there resented the Jewish population, the new immigrants as well as the Jews who were always there, and there were clashes. The British abandoned Palestine, leaving the Jewish population defenseless, or so it seemed. Jews had secretly been making small-arms underground where the British forces and Muslims did not know about. They knew they would be on their own again and were not going to allow another holocaust.

There was fighting in the streets and the Jewish population prevailed over the radical Muslims who did not want 'infidels' living among them. With this culminated the re-establishment of the nation of Israel. Immediately all the surrounding Muslim nations attacked Israel, believing they would easily wipe out this rag-tag bunch of Jewish infidel refugees, but G-d made it so that Israel would prevail, and His prophesy of Israel "putting on new leaves" would come true.

If you are asking who fired the first shot, threw the first punch... No one knows, and it is highly irrelevant at this point. If you are asking whose land it was first. I believe that answer is clear.

And to be honest, the people whose land it was ORIGINALLY, before the ancient Hebrew Tribes conquered the land over 3500 years ago, first destroying the city of Jericho, they are long since gone.

As of this point, the Muslims claim that Jerusalem is a Holy city to them as well, even though Jerusalem, nor Palestine is mentioned even one time in the Koran while the word Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds and hundreds of times in the Bible. So both sides are making religious claims to the land. If you are going to knock the Old Testament, you have to knock the Koran to be consistent.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
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deacon's picture

And you were doing so well

until you interjected your last sentence :)
But it is exactly my point,both sides fighting over what some book says.
neither listening with a still voice that says love your enemies,and/or do unto others
thanks for your input,as well as a history lesson,I am familiar with the old testament,and what it says about who owns what,but,as you know,I have my doubts
D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

What's factually or logically inconsistent w/ last sentence?

?

You apparently disagree with that statement but you then say that is your whole point. I agree with you that the problem is neither side really wants peace. Which is exactly what I mean when I said it takes two to tango.

You may have your doubts about the existence of G-d, but much of the Old Testament is factually proven history. And the Muslims are fighting because of Allah (God) in their minds as well. So you cannot knock one side for that, and excuse the other, without being logically inconsistent in your argument, and just looking biased.

Your welcome for the history lesson though. Anytime.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
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deacon's picture

You should know a few things

about me,One being I do not accept truths from men,this includes the bible
and about its accuracy,it has not been proven as fact
what is proven though,is some of the biblical recordings have happened in the past,but with different peoples.I could name a few,but I will not talk religion here anymore
And to say,I have doubts about god,just shows me,you haven't read what I typed,because I told you my stance about the creator before,if that creator is god to you,then we believe along the same lines..if not,oh well
both of them books you mentioned were written by men,so I will not stand on any of them

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Cognitive Dissonance.

see below.

Dude, how about explaining just wtf you mean by that...?

No cognitive dissonance here.

If you can't actually make a point then don't bother saying anything.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

I did not suggest that there was.

cognitive dissonance is a shell.
and some shells are harder than others.
I made reference to the post below my response for a reason.
the reason was that it was on display.
peace.

I disagree

Why wouldn't Israel want peace? It is the global investments in tech, industry, science, that somehow conflict makes a better place for commerce? I don't think so. Where the Trans-Jordan's AKA Palestinians, who fly the same flag as Jordan, know there is no profit squeaking to Arab/Islamic nations that put them in refugee statis to begin with.. far more profitable squeaking to Americans where they find compassion and donations, for their cause to continue to profit off their own misery.

Let's never forget that Sharon relocated 450K Jewish families that had settled Gaza, and Sharon gave Gaza to the Refugees, because Jews can undertsnad what is wrong with human refugees, and what happens, Gaza is destroyed and Hamas trades American money for rockets instead of baby food.

Good points...

.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
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The mess was started since before biblical times

When was there not a mess happening in Caanan, Sumaria and Judea? Since the Roman's took the land and called it Philistine (world famous "indian givers" (being a trade route, where Afria, Asia and Europe).. "no man's... nomadic tribe land).

The walls and searches have curbed the suicide bombings, so it's working and why the walls should remain. It's not apartide.

Palestine flies the same flag as Jordan, not Israel.

Palestine is dependent on Israel, Islam has an issue with this.

"Israeli's border patrol

maintains that the two young men were about to throw a bomb."

So where's the bomb or bomb materials?

"Ten bullets were put into Jawhar’s feet. Adam took one bullet in each foot. After being transferred from a hospital in Ramallah to King Hussein Medical Center in Amman, they received the news that soccer would no longer be a part of their futures.

They knew they were soccer players and that's why they shot both of the men's feet. So they could never play again.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

deacon's picture

I can almost hear it now

They confused that soccer ball with a bomb.
D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Soccer Ball; Soccer Bomb: Soccer Balm?

The news stories of this should be aptly titled, 'When Israelis act like Nazis'

Nazi: "We shoot boys 10x in their feet then let vicious dogs chew on them."