10 votes

All the kingdoms of the world... It has been given to me

One of the many reasons I don't vote anymore is that I figure out that the state is evil and it goes against my faith.

Luke 4:5:

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.

The state will never allow good man into power. If you vote, you always will be voting for the lesser of two evil.

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Psalm 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Render Unto Caesar What Is Caesar's,

and unto God what is God's.

Does that mean what is Caesar's is not God's?

Surely if what is Caesar's was God's then no one would render unto Caesar. Everything would be rendered unto God would it not? Could not Jesus have said render only unto God? Probably questions you don't hear everyday so let's make it more interesting:

Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.

Does that mean part or all of any bundle of rights for God's ownership are surrendered when placing or appointing representatives in positions of authority to act on his divine behalf?

So what is God's and what is Caesar's exactly? If everything comes from God then how does God surrender any part of his bundle of ownership rights for creation in order for anyone, including Caesar, to own anything?

Is a Driver License God's or Caesar's?
Is an Occupational License God's or Caesar's?
Is a Marriage License God's or Caesar's?
Is a Federal Reserve Note God's or Caesar's?
Is registered intellectual property God's or Caesar's?
Is registered anything God's or Caesar's?

Caesar wanted to control

flesh, God only chooses to have our souls. God states we must follow His Law, the Ten Commandments, so if the state tries to force you not to follow God's Law then it is your duty not to follow the state. Money is the root of all evil, so render it to Caesar for where your heart is, your treasure is there also.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

I will offer a rewording:

Where one's heart is, so too is their treasure. Where one's treasure is rendered, so too is their heart. As already pointed out by another comment. Money is treasure when you love it.

RE: Ceasar wanted to control flesh.

Did Ceasar claim to be a son of a god?

RE: God only chooses to have our souls.

A fascinating statement which invites many questions. Not all souls are saved if some souls will burn in an eternal fire. Does God choose those who only choose him? Before you agree that is true let me also ask then what is this business of Jesus talking about love thy enemy because what reward is there for only loving those who love you?

RE: so if the state tries to force you not to follow God's Law

What is the greatest commandment?

Tiniest omittance

"the love of" money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10). Money is just a conduit, man uses it toward evil or good. It is the heart of man that is wicked not the inanimate object. I know you know this but best to always be as specific as possible so as not to have to backtrack/argue with trolls who pin down on an omittance.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Thank you for your comments!

You have very good comments.

bump

!

"I'm Ron Paul." - Ron Paul

When studying scripture, context and original word meanings are

When studying scripture, context and original word meanings are key.
Take for example Luke 4:5, the scripture you quoted. By reading the entire series of connected ( by topic, in this case the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness ) verses we can glean several pieces of important truth that bear heavily on the veracity of Lucifers statement of " ownership ".

The first piece towards establishing whether or not what he said is in fact truth is in whom he's trying to offer " the kingdoms ". Obvioysly, Jesus who is the Word, and is God would know whom holds the " stewardship rights ", or if you will " is the representative of earth legally ". Yet despite Stan's claim to offer those kingdoms, Jesus doesn't rebuke him for lying whatsoever, rather he quotes Himself, that is scripture " thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ".
Furthermore Jesus Himself describes Lucifer as " the prince of this world ". To understand the what Jesus said here one must understand what Jesus had written in Job 1:6-12. Here we are given a glimpse into the " governmental operations of heaven ( my terminology ) ". Satan, already having been kicked out of heaven for his polemic war against God, shows up at a board meeting of the " sons of God ". Who then are these " sons "? They are, the repeesentives of the OTHER inhabited worlds, or rather the " ambassadors by right of stewardship, or princes " of said worlds. God asks Satan whys he's at this meeting, Satan, rather arrogantly answered " from walking too and from upon the earth ". In today's vernacular, that equates to " earth is mine homey, deal with it ". And the earth was his, otherwise he could not have entered heaven having already been cast out. Earth became his by legal right when he deceived Adam: the keys to the kingdom are his.
So no, Satan was not lying, like he could or would to He who knows all things.

The good news is that at the cross, Satan lost the earth to Jesus, which is when Jesus saw Satan fall as lightning. Not as in quickly, but as in how lightning is visible for miles around when it flashes.
The bad news is, the kingdoms of this earth won't ever learn to serve God, and in this respect are still Satans servants. Jesus does come back to earth ( the NEW earth ) to be with us in the NEW Jerusalem , but the OLD earth, that is this one is utterly laid to a fiery waste we he's soon returns to get His people. When He does come back, first the dead in Christ rise, and immediately after that those who are alive rise: everyone else perishes at the brightness of His, Jesus's coming. Once with Jesus in the air, all of His go to be in heaven for 1000 years, those who were fried in their unrepentance lay dead for those 1000 years. After the 1000 years, Jesus completes the resurrection(s), those to life are already completed at His coming, these ( after the 1000 years ) will be for those to damnation.
The popular myth of a " rapture " prior to His coming, are deceptions not based upon sound scriptural interpretation, and shall cause many to perish in sin for their believing they would have some foreknowledge of His coming based upon a " rapture " event. There is only ONE rapture, and if you have not sanctified yourself from everything that offends BEFORE HAND, you shall be resurrected to the resurrection of damnation. Please brothers and sisters hear wisdom, and in faith Love God wholeheartedly and then shall sanctification come unto you.

God bless
Stēkō Pharrēsia Iēsous

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Steadfast it is important

for you to state what translation in order to get the context. I have found newer bible versions leave out many verses. At his return after the thousand years sin will be no more, so it is important to state that there is no eternal hell, a forever torment for the wicked. They will be burned up and destroyed for eternity, they will live no more. The Catholic Church loves to sell an eternal burning for their 10%, it infact makes people follow God out of fear and not out of love. God does not want us to follow Him out of fear, but to follow Him out of love. Fear would be an easy sell but it would be no true companionship. If God ruled by eternal torment, He would just have us burning now for eternity all of us. I find you are well studied in the Bible though Steadfast, just wondering which translation you use?

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Thank you for your loving comment,

And I agree withe gods meat you so aptly presented to this discussion in accordance to His good purpose.

To answer your question, I use several, but mainly the KJ with its Strong's Concordance. I also use and InterLinear for original syntax and grammatical structures, for one must not only know the definitions from the original, but also how the words were arraigned. For Koine, Aramaic, and Hebraic all use inferences of importance based upon the placement of verbs, nouns within sentence structures, and these play a pivitol role in proper understanding through interpretations. I think you are likely already aware of this, I merely posted it because it has become a part of " how I study the word " and it therefore is parcel to this answer.

I also cross reference verses through several expanded commentaries, and other translations to see how scholars before me conclude the heart of each verses contextual meaning(s).
I've been a bit slack these last few months in my studies, neglecting time towards other pursuits. Thanks for asking and posting your question, for in writing my response my small still voice poked my conscience on this issue I just mentioned. Prayerfully I'll return to greater diligence in this, the single most important thing I shall do tomorrow, or today.

Oh, one last thing, no matter what I'm studying in scripture, I always filter it through one constant " God is LOVE. ".

Thanks again.....and God speed.

Stēkō pharrēsia Iesōus

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Baloney

The comments above re the Millennial reign of Christ are baloney, as are the comments made below by the same poster re other inhabited worlds and especially that Michael is another name for Jesus. That is a heresy promoted by the JWs, who deny Jesus' Deity. You will learn nothing but bad theology by reading this poster.

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

The millenium

will be the time where God shows us why some people whom we loved on earth did not make it to heaven. God isn't gonna just destroy them without explaining. The millennial reign is very Biblical. It is where God shows us the books, if we are admitted. He doesn't want us to live forever with Him, not knowing why grandma or mom did not make it. His mercy is amazing.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Scripture to back your words?

Or just sophistry,ineuendo and slander?

If YOU are a Christian, based upon your comment...if I were not already I'd chose not to become one....food for thought...brother.

God bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Awesome comment!

You put words and evidence to what I believe.
I am not very eloquent!

Re:"Who then are these " sons

Re:"Who then are these " sons "? They are, the repeesentives of the OTHER inhabited worlds, or rather the " ambassadors by right of stewardship, or princes " of said worlds."

How did you come to the conclusion that there were other inhabited worlds? I'm not saying that it's impossible for there to be other inhabited worlds, but I don't see how you draw that conclusion.

Some commentators consider the princes of Persia and Greece in Dan 10:20 to be spiritual powers rather than humans. If they are correct would you think Persia and Greece were other inhabited worlds? Why can there not rather be more than one steward on earth, considering that Matthew 18:10 seems to imply children having more than one angelic steward?

Great questions

God calls earth a " world ", scripture also says that God created many worlds, thusly an unknown number of other inhabited planets. God also calls heavenly bodies, stars, suns, and planets in addition to calling some planets worlds.
The prince of Persia, was Satan Himself, withholding ( most likely in a polemic or word, argumentative battle ) the angel, likely Gabrial from getting to Daniel, Michael ( another name of Jesus's ) had to come assist Gabrial against Satan, so Gabrial could leave and go inform Daniel of Gods wisdom. As far as I can understand their is but a singular " prince " to each world.
Hebrews ( 2:5 ) so speaks of angels being assigned to every human, so yes we do have angelic being about us daily. Whether or not these angels are guardians or simply recording angels might depend upon our individual Spuritual condition.

Thanks for asking, I pray I answered your questions adequately .

Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

...

Re:"scripture also says that God created many worlds, thusly an unknown number of other inhabited planets."

Can you give the reference and explain how it implies inhabitation?

Re:"The prince of Persia, was Satan Himself"

Then who was the prince of Greece in the same verse?

My impression is that you have a lot of presumption in your theology, or perhaps those are the traditions of your denomination. In either case, I'm not drawing the same conclusions, though I would consider those views possible.

B

Thank you!

I looked and looked, but I can not find WHAT I THOUGHT I knew, which means I've harbors a false idea of scripture.
I am, believe it or not VERY gratefull for your following your line of questioning with me, for it was in your patience rpthat I've had an opportunity to change.

And that my friend is what spiritual growth in Jesus is all about.

Love, and God bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Here is the scripture I believe you were looking for.

Hebrews 11:3: "By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."

The word translated "worlds" is 'aion' from which we get our English word eon. [This can be seen in phrases such as "the ancient world" or "the Roman world".] This word is also translated "for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity" but this must be influenced by theology since a period related to time cannot be "eternity". This has led to some confusion I believe.

There are other Greek words translated "world" in the scriptures amongst which is 'kosmos' meaning an orderly arrangement or system. This is the word used in connection with the world system that is part of the unholy trinity that we, as believers, seek to overcome, i.e. "the flesh, the world and the devil". (1 John 2:16) (John 14:30) (John 18:39)

The word the devil uses in the temptations of Christ in the wilderness is 'oykoumenay' meaning the inhabited earth. The word translated kingdoms is 'basiliah' meaning royal power, dominion, kingship rather than the actual kingdom over which such power is exercised.

I just received today a New Testament I ordered on the recommendation of a Bible teacher I respect. It is called "The New Testament: God's Message of Goodness, Ease and Well-Being Which Brings God's Gifts of His Spirit, His Life, His Grace, His Power, His Fairness, His Peace and His Love" by Jonathan Mitchell.

It is not a paraphrase but a very comprehensive amplified and literal translation of the New Testament Greek scriptures that I have so far found to be the best I have ever come across. It is ideal for in depth study by the serious Bible student and I believe will satisfy your desire to know the Father's will and to apply it in your life.

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Testament-Goodness-Well-Being/...

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

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I'm glad you care about the grounding for your beliefs. I doubt anybody has their theology 100% correct. We can all grow and come to a better understanding. But just because you can't find something doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. There is a particular verse I remember the gist of, but I can't seem to find it now for some reason. But I remember vividly what was contained in the verse, when it was showed to me, and how I thought I should make a note of it because I wanted to remember it due to its' usefulness. I don't remember which words were used in it though and failed at finding it with bible software searches. Though I previously looked it up in the same bible software. It seems the only way I'll find it now is when I re-read that entire book. There's no doubt that the verse I was looking for is in there, it will just take some more work to find it. I wasn't looking for it to share with you, but I wanted to point out that maybe you should keep looking if you really thought it was in there. The words may be slightly different than you remember.

Good advice.

I study at length each morning, and am finishing up the minor prophets, perhaps this is God way of telling me to reread the old Testiment again. For if it's there, it's in the old as far as I can recall.

Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Unless he was lying...

it is satan after all.

Yah, but...

Jesus never argued about or rebuked him.
The fruits of the state is the same fruits of satan. (Rob, kill and destroy)

...

There's no requirement for him to respond to lies:

Mat 27:12 "And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing."

I don't understand the Devil

I don't understand the Devil or Satan by a Christian sense. If God is all powerful cant he just smote Satan and be done with it? Or is God allowing Satan to exist to test us for the next life?

Also, when we are born are our souls born then are eternal or are our souls eternal but placed into our bodies. In that case where did our souls come from?

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

Hope this helps.

He can and will, but at the right time:

2nd Peter 3:7-10 "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. "

We do not pre-exist our physical bodies:
1st Corinthians 15:44-46 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual."

My understand is...

Eternal life is a reward. The ones that don't get rewarded with eternal life will be destroyed or die.
Immortal soul comes from Greek mythology and is used to support the theory of eternal torment of the soul.

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Re:"Immortal soul comes from Greek mythology and is used to support the theory of eternal torment of the soul."

Correlation is not causation.

Re:"Eternal life is a reward. The ones that don't get rewarded with eternal life will be destroyed or die."

In Christianity, it would seem eternal life has more to do with mercy than reward. Adam and Eve were originally made with eternal life, but death came because of sin. Removing the death penalty seems more like a form of mercy here in that the work rendered was performed by Jesus as a gift.

Agreed!

You are right.

consider luke 4 in light of John 8

That verse in Luke 4 quotes what Satan said. It doesn't say what authority Satan actually had. John 8:44 says that Satan is a liar:

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

So you can't really take his word in Luke 4. Your whole argument is based on trusting Satan to be honest in Luke 4.

And Luke 4 takes place before the crucifixion, so even if Satan was being honest, Colossians 2:15 shows that Jesus triumphed over principalities and powers at the cross:

Col 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

But even if Satan has that power, God is sovereign over it.
John 19:11 "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."

Someone said that Satan is like a vicious dog with rabies who's on death row. But he's still God's dog, and he's on a chain with signs posted 'beware of dog'. And as God's property, he's owed a measure of respect:

Jude 1:8-10 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."