49 votes

Humor me for a moment I am genuinely curious what everyone thinks.

Why will you be voting in the next Presidential Primary?

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I suppose that's an assumption on my part but for all practical purposes I think its safe to say that many of you will.

I will not be participating anymore. I don't see the point of wasting any time on negative outcomes when there is a much larger opportunity to embrace something much more exciting; the awakening of the human being.

Before you turn away, please keep reading and consider my perspective on things.

When I was young and being indoctrinated into Americanism I was told voting is an honor and a privilege. Not voting is an insult to those who serve in our military, who have served — and died — to protect our freedoms and our way of life. It is my civic duty and responsibility as a United States citizen.

Really? Perhaps back when we lived in a more romantic time.

Let me get right to it.

When Ron Paul ran both in 2008 and 2012 I believed. I signed right up! I wanted it so bad. I worked tirelessly to inform and recruit. I became a delegate in my county and even was elected to vote at the state conventions both times. I painted the town with Ron Paul signs. I worked with the campaign by using my trucks from my business to transport collateral and other equipment. (and I had fun doing it without regret)

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But I witnessed something while being part of this experience. I witnessed a greater force above all the money raised, excitement surrounding the movement and the political evangelism.

I witnessed an evil apparatus working behind the scenes to ensure things remained status quo and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Like you I lived through the suspicions of voter fraud and Diebold machines. But lets look beyond this because what has happened is much more despotic.

We now know that the NSA has not only virtual visibility to every single electronic expression on this earth but has the ability to assassinate, sever communication and fragment opposition neutralizing any threat to its existence.

Do you honestly believe Rand Paul running on a platform that directly opposes this will make it?

It will never happen and all you have to do is consider the history.

I will start with this:

Jan 21, 2012 ... As both CNN and Politico are reporting, the Republican Party of Iowa has officially declared Rick Santorum the winner of the 2012 Iowa Caucus ...
People like to pick horses...winning horses.

"A strong showing in Iowa also sends a message to the national party leaders. Each party seeks a strong contender for the White House, and a good response from Iowans helps cement a candidate's chances to win the national nomination."


"Ron Paul Wins Iowa 16 Weeks Later" After Mitt Romney is declared the presumed nominee.

In Louisiana he gets screwed out of delegates:

Ron Paul campaign files second appeal for Louisiana delegates

But MAINE-ly, Ron Paul Got Screwed

I personally witnessed the apparatus at work in Michigan:


and then this:

At the Republican National convention they changed the rules to seat delegates.


Then we get this news:

So here is where were at.

Why vote?

But I have good news. We can beat them if we don't participate. Who are they? They are men and women like you and me.

Our efforts will be better served at enlightenment and awaking the human spirit. The more people we can awaken the greater the probability of real change.

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There is a positive shift going on and I am excited about whats to come.

Don't participate in the casino where the house always wins.

Let's create something new...something good!


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What would Ron do?

When RP first ran the system was even more fixed, people were more ignorant than they are now. Libertarian isn't such a dirty word now if you haven't noticed.
What if back then no one would participate and vote for him because they just KNEW RP wouldn't be elected because the system was crooked?
Only a blind person could miss how far liberty has come in the last decade, not to mention people's awareness of the subject.
Would Snowden have come forward if there was no growing movement?
If we had all dug a hole in our backyards and stuck our heads in because of the corrupt SYSTEM the world would be much worse off than it is today. Though I'm sure there are plenty who would love for you to drop out.
We need to know there are others like us. Your vote matters, even if we don't win next time.
"An idea whose time has come can not be stopped..."

Totally predictable

Not you or anyone specifically dex but it's been said the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist is two election cycles. And Rand, well, he's not his father, this we all know. That whole unity thing we had might have been once in a lifetime.

I'm impressed with we got with the whole voting/getting elected/penetrating the GOP thing and I see plenty of value with those efforts going forward. As far as "critical mass" goes, in keeping with your evaluation, what makes us think we could turn the masses of morons to positive action? I'm not sure we can handle critical mass. And I'm not one that sees anything "gloroius" in bloodshed.

To be honest, I'm not sure we're the same species that walked the earth just a few hundred years ago or I'm not sure we're gonna be much longer. Man is merging with his technology, something very like physical immortality is within reach for some and "social order" is gonna completely change. If we become a space-based species we will have severed any meaningful link with our terrestrial past and I am not designed to go anyplace that's not on this planet. I don't think I'd like it much so this really is the end for me and my lineage.

To some extent this is nobody's fault. We're humans, we create, we destroy. Perhaps this is all inevitable. It's certainly a clash of value systems.

Most of those who think so actually don't and most of those who think sew actually rip.


You mean try to empower some thug to do the dirty work (representing me the aggressor) so I can get free stuff/benefits/social comforts/whatever through the pillaging/taxation of others who might actually do honest work and have a fundamental right to 100% of the fruits of their labor?


I would prefer to do unto others, as I would have them do unto me.

Sometimes voting works

One of my last votes was for the legalization of marijuana in Washington State. I think that vote made a difference. Marijuana legalization won and it has caused a national debate and major public awareness.

If you want to wake people up, that is an example of something that woke up a lot of people.

I'm going to be supporting Clint Didier for congress, and also Rand for president.

I only vote for someone who motivates me

Great idea ! Let's stop the machine by not participating. It sounds good but we will never know. They will just lie that we voted. How can we know. There isn't any system that could let us know.

I like the idea of waking the people up. Keep talking and sending folks to this web site. There are great people here that keep putting me back on track.

I have a tendency to compromise the Bill of Rights. I know it's always a mistake. I just think that if we elect a good person that they will see the value of honoring the Bill of Rights.

Thanks for being here.

Won't ever vote for national pol again

I may throw a local vote against a tax toll etc. but I will never participate in the criminal organization of the GOP or DNC.

We need to stop giving them the illusion of legitimacy with our votes.


Liberty = Responsibility

Principled Non Voter Here

I've withdrawn consent. Government is evil. It is based on theft. Instead of voting, I take voluntary, positive action in my neighborhood and community, including civil disobedience and charity. If all the time spent on politics was spent instead on voluntarily making the world a better place, we would be much better off. Here's my blog post with more details on why I don't vote. http://bryanandlianne.name/wordpress/?p=368


Once again, "Oh I am so enlightened" so I don't vote. Wow what a champion of liberty I am. My whole life is devoted to fighting tyranny but frankly I have met less than a dozen people who are paying the price to be free. We did not lose because of the evil men in the system or the system itself. I saw the rabble come hear Ron Paul speak at a college her in San Diego. Over 5,000 people and we all bragged that up but when it came to working on the weekends to promote Ron Paul we would get around a dozen or so people and they only did it on the weekends. You people think that is how to win a revolution of freedom? That is why we are obese with tyranny. By the way in most elections out here in California there is something on the ballot that will take more rights away but you will not vote against no, no, no, that is supporting evil. The choices are increasing tyranny or less tyranny but only if we fight it at every turn. There is no choice of a wonderful system without any government. That is not one of your choices. By leaving the battle for freedom you run away from tyranny that will catch you one day in a big way.

Mike Benoit for Congress

The saying, 'all evil need to

The saying, 'all evil need to triumph is for good men to do nothing' comes to mind.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Because just as you believe

Because just as you believe it is pointless to vote, I think its pointless not to.

I use to not vote, just due to indifference. But I began to think of myself as horribly hypocritical when I would complain about how much the government sucked, even though I hadn't done anything to change it. Granted, withdrawing consent (not voting) is doing something, it's a negative action. Voting is a positive one, and I'm a glass half full kind of guy...sometimes.

If ignorance is bliss, Washington DC must be heaven.

if you're a drunk, and the glass is half full of beer...

then maybe the positive thing is to look at it as half empty...

If you're objection is to the government, then participating gives it credibility. It's like not agreeing with football, but showing up to games so you can boo... that's not a positive action.

The positive action is to not vote, not waste your time, and take that time and actually do something positive - Be the Change you Want.

Agree to disagree.

I don't think your example is relatively accurate. Voting, when counted fairly and accurately, changes things a little more than booing. But I'll give you the point.

"Be the Change you Want" - I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm voting to change things, its why I go to city meetings, its why I help the random guy on the outskirts of town who has little more to his name than a single wide trailer with a trashed yard/home clean up on the rare free Saturdays that I have.

I'm not trying to discredit your point of view here. Withdrawing consent and not feeding the beast is a legitimate viewpoint and course of action. I just think trying to dismantle and eliminate the system will be much harder on everyone than changing the system, even though changing the system is harder for those that wish it to be changed.

If ignorance is bliss, Washington DC must be heaven.

well, we disagree on the voting thing,

but I absolutely agree with and commend your activism. One thing about the political arena is that its an avenue to disseminate information.

I heard someone say that the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist is 2 election cycles. That seems to be fitting for me. I re-located for a couple months during the 2010 election to help Jake Town and I was very active - state delegate and all that - for RP in 2012. After these experiences, I'm not sure how the change is going to come through participation in the political process.

I feel that the problem is we take god-like authorities (ability to steal, imprison others, kill others - initiate force against others), place them in the realm of government and place non-god-like humans in charge. I don't think the issue is that we don't have good people in charge, the issue is we are giving man god-like power. I don't think we can change it through the system, because once you get in the system you become dependent on it for your livelihood. I wonder how effective accumulating power just to give it up can be. And doesn't matter who you are, power corrupts, sorta like the ring in lord of the rings. It makes what Ron did simply amazing, but I don't see Rand as the same. Pandering isn't being the change. Does he have plan as to when he is going to stop and speak to people straight? Is it when he gets enough power? Will he have any soul left when he gets the proper amount? I just don't see how his actions will reach the ends I desire, and as I watch it I gain more confidence that it's the means that really matter.

Anyway, its all a fun discussion, and I always have to remember that our disagreements are minor in the whole scheme of things.

agreed, good points.

Unfortunately voting the probably the best way to get anything chagned.


I was told loud and clear that the gop doesnt want my vote.
I was a delegate in GA and also watched the tricks used here against libertarians/Ron.

I was going to vote for Rand
or Hillary if Rand doesnt run


You're idea is one I've thought of also and I'm with you!
I wish we could get 10's of millions to NOT vote.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson


Remember Hilary Care? Bengazi? She is no better than what we have now...or before that.

Denise B's picture

Hillary?? Really??

Are you joking and I just missed the sarcasm? How could anyone think that Hillary Clinton is a viable option if Rand does not run? How does anyone that frequents the DP think that Hillary is a viable option, period? How does any person, anywhere think that Hillary is a good option? She is the physical embodiment of everything that most people in the liberty movement are against and having her as president is the worst possible scenario for this country. Please, please tell me that you were joking!

or you could say

How does any person, anywhere think that (insert GOP or Dem name here) is a good option? She/he is the physical embodiment of everything that most people in the liberty movement are against and having her/him as president is the worst possible scenario for this country.

I think you've been hannitized Denise. Your description sounds like fox news sound script. :)
So Denise, please tell me how the GOP criminals that will run wont be about the same as Hillary?

The gop told me to go away in the last election. I listened and went away. I don't throw my vote away. I use it to help burn the gop to the ground. If it takes three terms of dems in the white house for them to get a clue, then oh well.
I think the OP here was actually talking about how our voting probably doesn't matter much anyway, and that was as much bush and the gops fault as anyone elses.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

Denise B's picture

I assure you

that I am no fan of the GOP or Sean Hannity! I also do not think that voting for any person who would be bad for our country (whether left or right) simply out of spite is a wise decision and is kind of akin to biting off your nose to spite your face. My position on voting is that it is rife with fraud, but I'm not going to make it easier for them to get what they want by withdrawing from it all together. I think a better solution would be to work harder at fixing the problem and if there is someone or some legislation that is worth voting for, I will by all means do that. The presidency is certainly not the only office or issue that we cast a ballot for.


"My position on voting is that it is rife with fraud, but I'm not going to make it easier for them to get what they want by withdrawing from it all together."

Force them to work harder and pay out even more $$$ to maintain a ridiculously large field of unacceptable candidates who are there simply to split the vote. In the meantime, keep on spreading the message to everyone you come across, in the hope that some day the puppet masters will give up when the farce is too hard to maintain or go broke continuing to play the rigged game.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Denise B's picture

Hi Nonna!

Nice to hear from you! Well said! :)

Make them pay.

I was getting political calls every day before the primaries. When I hung up I'd cheerfully say out loud, "Thanks for wasting your money on me!" Ha ha.


Did you ever try to talk to them when they called about switching their vote? That would've been cool too! Hah!


It's the system that is the problem. It isn't the specific individuals churning the wheels of the system. It's the ability of those individuals, through the authority set up in this system, to assume the god-like power to initiate aggression against those who have harmed no-one - that is the problem. As long as this perceived authority exists, those who lust for this power will lie, cheat, steal, and kill to attain it.

Supporting this system by voting doesn't help our cause, although it is a minor thing compared to our financial support submit too...

So if there was no authority system

aggression would disappear?

There would be no bandits, murderers, swindlers, rapists, war lords, etc.?

Power is an universal pursuit. "Liberty lovers" want power over their own lives. It's not a bad thing, but it needs to be kept in control because no one has the same amount of power. One man is stronger than another.

Inevitably there will be disagreements about which acts are aggression. How will that be solved without a judge or some sort of authority? A gun duel in the streets? Wouldn't a duel also be an affirmation that the stronger (faster, more accurate) man has more power?

Clearly no, it wouldnt eliminate aggression

So given that aggression (lust for power, ect) is a product of human nature, and not a product of the system of authority in place lets make a comparison.

Governmental system: Creates a monopoly on the use of force, the perceived authority to initiate force, and the judgement of conflicts.

Voluntary system: Allows anyone to enter the market of force and judgement.
***It should be apparent that a bad guy, lusting after power, will have a MUCH easier time accumulating it when society centralizes all the power he is lusting for and determines that all you have to do is be a sleazy corrupt lying scum bag (politician) to get it (or as we have evolved too, they can hide in the shadows and just buy politicians). Also note – you mentioned no-one has the same amount of power, which is true, but it is even more disproportional in a governmental system.

Also, the bandits, swindlers, warlords, ect all exist in the governmental system, so you could say it has failed in dealing with that issue. And if you dig deeper you'll find that the governmental system has enabled many of these tendencies. Prohibitions create a black market - Capone during alcohol prohibition is a great example and just look at the cartels dominance propelled by the war on drugs. A voluntary system wouldn't eliminate these people, but it also wouldn't enable them - which the governmental system IS currently doing. Just stopping that would be an improvement!

The DP is generally very good at recognizing how economic freedoms allow for amazing creativity, ingenuity and ultimately prosperity for society. Here is a post I did relating this idea to social issues, but the properties of freedom (IMO) are relate-able to all issues including force:


So no, it wouldn’t eliminate acts of aggression, but it would also not be void of a process to deal with it. Whenever there has been a desire for a product, a market has formed. People generally want justice, so a free market system, where players are free to enter the market and participants are free to choose services, would provide the most optimal results. We just gotta buck the biases that have been ingrained in us and trust FREEDOM!

Free market for justice and protection

would probably end up with a gang system or a variation of feudalism.

I do believe that there are criminals in positions of power. However, I believe that the majority of their crimes are bad because of the level of trust that they have been given- not the deeds themselves. The mechanic might add unjustified repairs to our car. The Congressman will raise the taxes. The policeman gets angry and punches a suspect but two guys can get in a tussle and it's accepted.

I've heard that pure evil is as rare as true sanctity. And I think that the majority of our officials are people just like us- somewhere in the middle.

I won't

if there is nobody to vote for.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

I think we should start a campaign

to get everyone to write in their own names when voting for president. This will be a good way to show that we think voting is a bunch of BS and that we as INDIVIDUALS truly have the highest office in this country. It will be a power symbols of self determination.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

How about this slogan:

Govern Yourself 2014.