11 votes

I would like to hear your best evidence for a Creator

I'm putting together another list, and I could use your help. Opposing evidence is welcome as well.

*EDIT* Here are the answers I have gleaned from this thread.

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I must have watched this

at least five times since you first pointed it out to me. It makes me wonder what we can prove, and if statements of existence are included in those "far reaching statements" you mentioned.

Thanks for the comments, Cyril. Note that the term "evidence" was used in the OP rather than "proof." I hope that is in line with what you have told me.


Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Cyril's picture

Well, that's the thing with Godel's findings:

Well, that's the thing with Godel's findings:

both humans and computers seem to agree:

1 + 1 = 2.

Now, the REALLY interesting questions for both are:

WHAT is "1" vs. "2", EXACTLY, to start with?


WHAT is " + "?

WHAT is " = "?

CAN the "countably infinite" (e.g., natural numbers) really exist, even should it be thought that we live in a "finite" universe? Or if the universe itself is infinite, would it be a "countably" one, or would it be higher on the scale of the continuum?

WHAT "to exist" does even mean?

Does it mean to compute both sides of an equation and testing for equivalence of the identities?

And WHO / WHAT will test "the equivalence" itself?

WHO / WHAT will be the ultimate witness that EVERYTHING is both sound AND complete?

WHERE does TIME fit in there?

Etc, etc.


That's why I eventually accepted faith and science to be strictly orthogonal. Personally, I like both. But not everybody has to! :)

More importantly I found there's nothing much constructive coming out of trying to oppose or combine them against / with each other (i.e., have one incompatible or dependent - against or upon the other).

As History shows, I think... quite the opposite. Regrettably.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius


What is "1"?

That is a good question. If I may test my assumptions, doesn't "to exist" equal "1"?

That seems to be the word from Moses. I think it is in my signature below.


Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ

Reading this book and abiding by its precepts has given me experiences with the Spirit which has erased all doubt that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and the Creator of this world, and worlds without number.

If the Book of Mormon is true then Joseph Smith, Jr. was a true prophet, and his testimony that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ is true, which is more evidence I give to you.

Any honest person who reads the Book of Mormon will have to concede that an uneducated farm boy could not have written that 531-page book, filled with the doctrines of Christ, which is historically accurate which contains vast amounts of Hebrew poetry, and has zero inconsistencies or conflicts within its own pages and with the Holy Bible. And if you concede that he could not have written it, it begs the question: where did the book come from? Or perhaps Joseph's testimony is true and God does love us and is trying to speak to the world through prophets today.

You ask for evidence? I submit to you there is no greater evidence for the existence of God/ a Creator than the Book of Mormon which is another witness that what the Bible is saying is true, namely that Jesus is the Christ. As the Bible testifes, in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


The Underdog

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a rEVOLution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford


Read up on the history. Joseph Smith made it up. The Book of Mormon is not very old (1830) it was written by one man so of course its consistent with itself. Check out the story of how it was written (surprisingly the South Park episode on Mormonism is a great resource here.)

also this:
"During the 1830s, Smith sent out missionaries, published revelations, and supervised construction of an expensive temple. However, due to the collapse of a church-sponsored bank and violent skirmishes with angry non-Mormon Missourians, Smith's dreams of building Zion in Missouri and Ohio failed by the end of the decade. In the early 1840s, Smith established a new city called Nauvoo, Illinois, where he was a spiritual and political leader. In 1844, Smith and the Nauvoo city council angered non-Mormons by ordering a printing press destroyed after it was used to publish an exposé critical of Smith's power and practice of polygamy. During the ensuing controversy, Smith was imprisoned in Carthage, Illinois, and killed when a mob stormed the jailhouse."

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

to quote your quote.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Actually the Book of Mormon is true.. Read it and let the Holy Ghost confirm it's truth. It really is true. After I read your quote I had to speak up in defense of truth. The south park episode is fiction. Quite a few people saw the Gold plates and never denounce it even though they left the church and renounced Joseph Smith.


Its deception. The Holy Spirit has confirmed that. The Bible is enough, no need for extra books. It conflicts with the Bible in many areas. The trouble is that most Mormons are nice enough and successful enough that hardly anyone questions their doctrine or beliefs.

The Truth has been around for thousands of years as revealed in the Scriptures. The angel Moroni, Joseph Smith, seer stones, gold tablets, the Nephites, etc all were made up and came into play in the early 1800's.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Having read The New World Testament...

..it never occurred to me that Joe Smith was "uneducated." Whether or not he had a formal education is irrelevant. His (possibly subconscious) knowledge of didactics and pedagogy is profound, and his work is profounding beautiful, but I still consider it to be pure confabulation. Of course that didn't stop me from liberally swiping vast passages for my own self-indulgent little screed (advertised below.)

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

Joη's picture

God would not give you a brain then insist you forgo its use


"You underestimate the character of man." | "So be off now, and set about it." | Up for a game?

Unless he were a sadistic...

..sociopathic mass-murderer.

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

Some advice

 photo 1922326_455075931288806_1938496720_n_zps032280c4.jpg

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

God loves you

How true this song is God bless you

I liken myself to Thomas the Doubter...

I liken myself to Thomas the Doubter trying to become Thomas the Believer in John 20.

It was not until Mary and the disciples had seen Him, that they believed. Thomas doubted until he saw.

Jesus, according to the Bible, performed many miracles, and those who witnessed became believers.

This is my problem with those who claim, "well, sometimes you just have to have faith." I have to call B.S. on this.

Why didn't Mary or the disciples have to have faith? Why did they get to witness miracles to convince them?

Show me a miracle, and I too will believe.

I'm agnostic on this topic. I have felt and witnessed unexplainable things that have kept me from atheism, but for any man to claim to know that which is unknowable, is just extremely hard to swallow for me. Now, show me some real miracles akin to walking on water, parting a sea, multiplying food, or curing sickness with a touch, and I too will believe. I mean, who honestly doesn't want to witness something as incredible as this?

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!



I think the evidence of creator is truly self-evident. That is not to be vague but honestly we are here and were not before therefore we were created. The powers that conspired to that creation, like our parents, are therefore member creators. Whatever this reality is, finite or infinite, the reality exists and therefore was created. That is understood, of course, from the human perspective. If this reality is infinite then it always was and so was not necessarily created by anything other than the universe itself. Study fractal geometry for inspiration.

For instance the apple that springs from the tree appears nothing like the tree that sprang it. By appearances alone the apple and the tree it grows on look like completely different entities but one was certainly created by the other. This is fractal infinity winding through the space that it occupies. For a most excellent visual representation of this phenomenon look into "fractal geometry" or the Mandelbrot Set. Oh this universe is fascinating. Enjoy!

The fact that when crying out years ago.

God answered with His word, and Isaiah 55:11 "11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Romans 10:17 " Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

The fact that we are sinners (Romans 3:23), and that a person that God has given a new heart is a new person, and lives differently.

The evidence is the new and changed lives of those who have truly been "born or the (Holy) Spirit".. His hand is in everything from creation itself to our own personal and history of humanity!


On a side note

Since it is impossible to prove whether the Creator exists or not. For the prudent person it is best to be on the safe side and believe so, just in the case that he TRULY does exist, in which case one are covered.

Just in case

you want to stay alive in a place that doesn't hurt you have to believe that Jesus is God or not or Jesus is savior or Mohammed is the prophet. That includes only Christians and Muslims. I can't think of anyone else that believes in a torturous hell for unbelievers.

With this info, hell only exists for those who are alive and believe it so, and it exists for those that are actually experiencing it on earth.

Love thy enemy.

I don't have the best

I don't have the best evidence, but I do have the best purpose for a Creator.

No government on this Earth can take away that which is given to you by your Creator.

And the beauty of the Declaration of Independence using the phrase "their Creator" means literally the Creator that each individual decides is theirs, which could mean God or no God. The purpose is the same.


I have not read any response

before I post. My evidence is this. It is in regards to evolution. Can you show me anything....human, animal, etc, that lives today, in "Mid-Transformation"? Like where did a cat come from? If evolution is fact then surely you will be able to produce some type of 1/2 cat thing...right? Or how about a cow...since evolution states that the cow came from something, can you show me the full creation of the cow from an amoeba or whatever....NO. Evolution is so flawed, in my opinion it only leaves one answer...Intelligent design...whether you call it god, or whatever...everything living today did not morph from a single cell....If it did...you would see things in mid transformation right now...correct? Or you could trace back the morphing of anything...Right? I logged in for this topic....

This is what drove me nuts in

This is what drove me nuts in Ken Ham vs Bill Nye.

You weren't asked to come up with an alternate theory that is plausible based on holes in evolution. You're nitpicking at one small example of counter-evidence (not even counter-evidence, just one theory that exists that happens to contradict literal interpretations of the Bible). What was asked for was your AFFIRMATIVE evidence that a creator exists. Disproving evolution is an entirely seperate subject, it is akin to me trying to prove that I don't wear shoes by demonstrating that I am wearing gloves.


This is just what popped in my head.

While your questions reveal a

While your questions reveal a flawed understanding of what evolution implies about organisms, your point is correct that there is an absence of the expected smooth transitional record. There is never an incomplete organism or half cat, just biological change. It is purposeless, so not tending toward any deliberate type. At any given time every organism is complete and fully evolved.

However, your point is a fair one in the sense that every organism that's been observed is extraordinarily adapted for its environment. We don't see any absurdities and evolutionary misfits that you'd expect from a blind, random process.

The present theory may be inadequate to account for the discontinuity, but some other mechanism could be discovered that explains it.

Much more prickly for evolution are the problems of the origin of life, of the probabilistic and time problems in producing genetic information and complexity. If any insurmountable or inexplicable breaks in the life history emerge, the theory could demand substantial revision.

But the evidence for genetic relatedness and common descent is very strong. It is the mechanisms of the process that is least understood.

There are stronger grounds than the present incompleteness of evolutionary theory for belief in design related to cosmological fine tuning, which don't controvert claims like common descent which are very probably true, if not well understood.


You have a phenomenal vocabulary...Thanks.


by reason of glitch.

Think of the human cell and

Think of the human cell and how complex a single cell is.

A cell is amazingly complex. How or why a single cell functions the way it does is beyond science.

Why do all of the intricate parts of a cell work together like the inner workings of a not so complex in comparison Swiss watch?

What makes a cell tick?

What makes a single cell interact with trillions of other cells to create life?

There is a code, a pattern that repeats itself in all forms of life on earth.

A Designer (or Creator) wrote the code.

From a single cell to a computer, the code must come from somewhere.

Design and Creation doesn't just happen by itself. Apple computers and Life itself didn't just fall from the sky.

There is a stimulus, a single source of ignition from a point of orgin that science still can't figure out or explain why such energy exists.

Evidence of Creation and Intelligent Design is all around us.

From a single blade of grass to a human baby, nobody can explain why such things happen.

LIFE is amazing and full of wonder. It's more complex than the human brain. There's no scientific reason that can explain why real life happened at all.

For some inexplicable reason, Life exists. Without it, there would nothing but darkness. The Big Zero. Nothing.

From nothing came Life for a reason. It didn't happen by accident.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

In the most abstract sense,

there is "something" responsible for life and the universe and logically, there must be; otherwise we wouldn't exist.

What this "something" is, probably no human can say.

What is telling however, is the DMT experience.

One must try it for themselves to understand..it is truly life-changing and "utterly divine" does not even come close to an accurate description of the experience. I think DMT has the potential to give insight into this conundrum and I would recommend doing some research into this to add to your list.

First hand experience with DMT is extremely valuable, and not just for the purpose of research; for life betterment.

I've never done synthesized DMT

, but I have done Ayahuasca over a dozen times. The experience shifted my beliefs on two things in particular. Previous to the use, I was an atheist, and now, it is very difficult to deny a spiritual realm. Also, one of my early trips turned me into a pescetarian.

I'm not sure that there is a particular creator that has direct influence over our lives or is important enough to even give two thoughts about.

The possibilities are endless for how this world was created. I tend to follow where science has taken us to provide the best explanations. However, if I or others have an additional perspective, I will find it interesting. Without evidence, it is difficult to take the idea seriously let alone as fact.

Complexity of life isn't evidence enough for me to believe that humans, specifically, had a creator. The replication of molecules has to occur in order for life to exist. Certain molecules can replicate themselves, therefore life exists. A creator doesn't even have to come into the conversation.

When discovering something new in science, has the discoverer had to ask themselves, "How would God have created this?" in order to figure it out?

Love thy enemy.

This winter was a taste of what the creation would be like

Without the design of God.

Verse: The fool has said in his heart, there is no God. Psalm 14:1

Note: Albert Einstein, theoretical physicist; “The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. . . His religious feelings takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.”
Point: Einstein claimed that cosmos is so complex that reveals a being of super intelligence! A being who is smarter than the combined intelligence of every human who have ever lived!

If the sun were any further from the center of the galaxy, rock planets could not form. If it were any closer, stellar density would interfere w/ our orbit.

If the earth were 1 degree closer to the sun, we’d fry! If we were 1 degree further, we’d freeze!

If the moon was any closer or larger, the tides would destroy the coast lines. If any smaller or further away, the oceans would die from a lack of nutrient movement.

If our distance from Jupiter were any greater, asteroids and comets would pepper the earth. If we were any closer our orbit would become unstable.

If the surface gravity was any stronger, earth would retain too much ammonia and methane. If it were any weaker, earth’s atmosphere would lose too much water. . .

If the magnetic field were any stronger, electromagnetic storms would destroy us. If any weaker, ozone shield could not protect us from stellar and solar radiation.

If the earth’s crust were any thicker, it would absorb too much of our oxygen. If it was any thinner; the volcanic and tectonic activity would make life impossible.

If the decay rate of a proton was any faster, we would die from radiation. If it was any slower, insufficient matter in the in universe for life. . .

If the carbon dioxide level was any greater, runaway greenhouse effect would kill us. If it were any less, plants would be unable to maintain photosynthesis.

If the polarity of the water molecule were any greater vaporization would be to great for life. If it were any small, ice would not float – build up ice – freeze the planet!

Even the tilt of the earth’s axis is crucial to maintaining the earth’s temperature.

Note: The probability of these 75 factors occurring anywhere in the universe:
Much less than 12 in a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion. If that’s not wild enough – One hundred billion other things had to happen for these 75 to exist!

Point: Ok, so maybe there is God, but. . .

Note: Robert Jastrow’s (leading astronomers) wrote this in his book God and the Astronomers, “Consider the enormity of the problem. Science has proven that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks, what cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter and energy into the Universe? Science can’t answer these questions. . . For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; his is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”


Probability is used for

Probability is used for prediction of the future. Assessing probability of something that has already happened is rather silly. While all of these individual probabilities may seem very small, they all did happen, which is why we're here to observe it. We can also observe a massive amount of other situations where it did not happen.

The NCAA tournament going the way it went was incredibly improbable before it happened. Now it is certainty.

We are well aware that it was a low probability circumstance that caused our situation, regardless of origins or causes.