3 votes

Please answer this simple Climate Change question or tell me if I'm wrong.

The Earth was warmer than it is now 1 thousand and 3 thousand years ago.
http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm

Why didn't mankind perish during those periods if our current temperatures are causing cataclysmic climate change?




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Why didn't mankind perish during those periods if our current te

"Why didn't mankind perish during those periods if our current temperatures are causing cataclysmic climate change?"

Because 3000 years ago they had not destroyed the rest of our environment.

Climate change is an argument designed to distract from what we are really doing. 3000 years ago they had not destroyed our water tables to the point that no water is drinkable without first being purified. They had not destroyed all the natural forest for quick growing yet non sustaining trees like pines. They didn't have acute nuclear toxicity from bomb tests and plants. They didn't spew noxious exhausts from industry and automobiles. They didn't dump oil in the oceans. I could go on and on.

We will not die from climate change. Man made climate change is miniscule at best and for reasons they don't even talk about. But to think we are not killing ourselves through the acute destruction of our environment requires some heavy blinders.

Mankind may not have perished,

but he was terribly under-taxed and unregulated. It was awful.

[F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson

In skimming through the

In skimming through the comments, it seems that the best defense offered of Rand's statements is that he doesn't want to nuke Russia yet (my exaggeration).

The important point (to me) is that he is NOT a non-interventionist as is his father.

"It is America’s duty to condemn these actions in no uncertain terms. It is our role as a global leader to be the strongest nation in opposing Russia’s latest aggression.

Putin must be punished for violating the Budapest Memorandum, and Russia must learn that the U.S. will isolate it if it insists on acting like a rogue nation. "

He does throw us a carrot though: "America is a world leader, but we should not be its policeman or ATM."

If we're not the world's policemen, then why did he end with, "But let me be clear: If I were President, I wouldn’t let Vladimir Putin get away with it."

It's not our job to decide what other countries get away with, and what they don't get away with. Unless of course, we ARE the world's policemen.

I was truly afraid that Dr. Ron Paul was our last real hope. Of all the times to be right about something...

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

SteveMT's picture

Why? Because the whole thing is a hoax.

Four ice ages have come and gone prior to the arrival of Man. Look to the sun for your answer.

Mankind did perish.

Isn't it obvious that man can't live without central planners?

Therefore, there can only be one conclusion - man did perish.

:)

Climate change is continuously occurring

But the rate of change is not - not always, anyway. And while it
can be global, effects of even sudden change one place may affect
other regions of the globe to a lesser degree and with some sort
of time lag involved - especially between southern and northern hemispheres.

Assuming change can and will occur and being prepared to adapt to it
seems to be the best survival policy.

If you want chapter and verse about recent (in the whole scheme of things)
climate change and how humans adapted (or failed to adapt) to it the book
below is worth the read:

After the Ice: A Global Human History 20,000-5000 BC
Steven Mithen

http://www.amazon.co.jp/After-Ice-Global-History-000-5000/dp...

A big difference now is that there is too much population in most places relative to
what could be supported sustainably/locally even if there were no climate change.
And any change that does stress the existing system can also be expected to
impair the ability to respond with some kind of techno-fix.

Big urban centers especially are dependent on complex systems for delivering food, energy,
water & etc. that are prone to the disruptions climate change could bring and there
is no place for those big populations to escape to. Very much unlike the situation of
small bands of self-sufficient hunter-gatherers on a very sparsely populated Earth.

Mass extinctions are a

Mass extinctions are a natural event on planet earth. Earths climate has been changing since day one. Technically we are coming out of a nice age, and between glacial periods. The overwhelming vast majority of all creatures and plant fauna that has ever lived on Earth is extinct, and went extent before modern humans evolved. If you put earth existence on a clock, with 00:00 being the second earth was formed, and 12:00 being right now, then modern man didn't appear until 11:52, and when I say modern man I mean people with spears.

______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

I think its a mistake to assume that warming would be ALL bad.

There are tremendous areas of land (Siberia/Canada) that aren't very available for farming. Huge amounts of resources are spent on heating. A few degrees and a few weeks of growing season could make life better for most people. Maybe a few guys get their houses flooded (or the warmer air allows for greater snowfall in the high arctic, actually reducing sea levels).

Between the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, one created a lot more suffering than the other. Hint: It wasn't the one where England was growing wine grapes.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

What you gain here, you lose there...

it may be true that warming would make some areas newly farmable, but then it would also make other areas non-farmable. You would lose established grow areas, and it would take time for the new areas to get up to speed, a net loss.

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

We're both speculating, but...

..there is no surer way to guarantee poor growth than freezing weather, while hot weather is no guarantee of desertification, as Florida and South Alabama will attest.

I don't presume that everything would be better because of warmer temperatures, but I do believe farming would benefit overall.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

The difference is that back then Mother Gaia was warming

the Earth with her love and caring for her precious fauna by increasing the flora so all the animals would have enough food to eat.
Unicorns roamed the riparian forests and skipped happily on verdant plains under rainbow filled skies.

Now, it is the ignorant, evil human species creating this heat and at a much quicker pace than Mother Gaia would ever pursue causing an imbalanced world where flora and fauna suffer from mankind's encroachment upon their environment. The human beasts greed for 'things', its 'consumerism', causes them to make things from which the by-product is the most nefarious gas - CO2 - and the increase of CO2 is choking Mother Gaia to death!!! The heat will cause the polar caps and all the glaciers to melt and our most revered, saintly Father Algore's beachfront property will be destroyed by rising sea water!! And we can't forget all the terrible things that will be caused by this unnatural human-induced warming - the Pentagon said there will be more TERRORISM! All the aspens in the west will perish! There will be deaths of walruses in Alaska! We'll soon have oxygen-starved dead zones in the oceans! (If Fukishima doesn't kill them first) Amphibians will be breeding earlier! Bird will become confused when migrating. And every teenage homo sapian will experience greater outbreaks of acne due to man-made global warming! OH! The horrors!!

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Ya! Someone should make a

Ya! Someone should make a movie about skinny tall blue communist aliens who kill evil human capitalists who drive bloated, over sized tree & flower-pulverizers around in order to make evil profits.

The universe would be so much better if all humans were eradicated by elfy-looking aliens(besides ultra environmentalist liberals of course).

Well, if the intelligent and wise life forms

are paying attention and keep humans quarantined in this
solar system... humans will likely resolve any potential
threats to the rest of the galaxy by eradicating themselves.

This is all very explainable using modern science

The fact remains, most people HATE to hear it because it disproves global warming completely.

Allow me to give insight to how the basic earth functions first.

We have what is called a "Negative Feedback System."

1)Temperature Rises
2)Surface water from oceans evaporate
3)Sea level's shift due to less overall mass. Because our atmosphere is a pressure against the earth, it causes pressure shifts in varying sea levels.

As an example, let's say you post a sign that says from this point sea level begins:

Before shift:5 lbs pressure beings at 100ft, 50 lbs pressure begins at 1000ft
After shift: 5 lbs pressure begins at 150ft, 50 lbs pressure begins at 1050ft

The distance between the 2 pressure zones releases Carbon into the air, and is released from deep sea pressure zones. This is where the correlation between Temperature and Carbon Emissions comes from.

It is NOT Carbon in the air makes temperatures rise, that is not only 100% false, it is completely impossible.

4)As more carbon is released into the air, clouds will form. Since the majority of the earths temperature comes from the sun, the clouds will reflect the majority of the earths heat. If anyone has ever been above the clouds in a airplane, you will understand, just recall how bright it is up there.

This ability for the earth to push off heat is why we have whats called a "negative feedback system" and not a "positive feedback system". A positive feedback system refers to a planet or ecosystem that offers no way to cool itself down.

As more light is reflected, the earth will become colder. The heavier clouds will rain, causing the sea levels to rise once again, and the pressure systems will reset.

The cycle then repeats, its worth noting that this cycle can take weeks or months at a time, not hours or days.

A second point to bring up is the suns current solar flux, which is the lowest it has been in 500 years. Many believe it is about to enter another "dead cycle" where the sun shuts down, recharges, and starts back up. The last time this may have happened was during, what we now call, "the dark ages". This is also happening during a time on earth right now, where our polarities are about to switch. North will become south and south with become north, which can play a fun role in our seasons.

If anything they should have stuck with their global cooling ranting from the 80's because the earth itself has been in a state of cooling since 1998, going down just over 1 degree in the last 14 years.

Man-Made Emissions

If we then refer to man-made emissions, the entire earths man-made emissions account for .0044% of all total emissions. This includes factories, cars, everything that is made and used by man. It totals less than 1/2 of a percent. It is not that big of a deal in relation to the total earths power.

Truthfully, If man was actually destroying the planet, the entire earth would be covered in clouds as the system would be trying to regulate itself. Only in a completely cloud covered earth, where 0% of the suns light getting through, could our planet do the things they say it is doing.

To answer the question, this happens from time to time, hot cold, whatever, humankind seems to find a way to survive.

" the entire earths man-made

" the entire earths man-made emissions account for .0044% of all total emissions. This includes factories, cars, everything that is made and used by man. It totals less than 1/2 of a percent."

Ummm, .0044% is MUCH MUCH less than 1/2 of a percent, it's 5 *thousanths* of a percent. 1/2 of a percent is .5%.

Bottom line... climate has changed from warm to cool and vice versa thousands of times in geological history, it's not necessarily man made this time.

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

Sun shuts down and restarts?

"A second point to bring up is the suns current solar flux, which is the lowest it has been in 500 years. Many believe it is about to enter another "dead cycle" where the sun shuts down, recharges, and starts back up. The last time this may have happened was during, what we now call, "the dark ages""

Umm, I call bullshit.

Although if you can find an example of this occurring anywhere in the galaxy please
share it with the group.

There are cycles in sunspot activity that may correspond with cooling periods, though,
but that is quite a lot different than the sun "shutting down". The so-called Maunder Minimum" where there was no observable (with what they had to observe with at the time) sunspot activity apparently corresponded with the worst of the Little Ice Age in Europe and N. America from about 1645-1715 during the Age of Enlightenment - the European Dark Ages are generally considered to be the Early Middle Ages - from the collapse of the Western Roman Empire to sometime before 1000 AD...

http://www.eh-resources.org/timeline/timeline_lia.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_enlightenment

Science denier. I'm calling

Science denier. I'm calling Al Gore. We'll get you a nice reeducation so you can begin hating humanity like any sane person.

wolfe's picture

...

I have communed with the Gods. They have told me, we must sacrifice 4 virgins on the next full moon or they will rain fire from the heavens and send plagues to torment us. As proof, they will warn us by blocking out the sun for a full hour on -- "insert next eclipse date".

The belief is power. Fear creates belief. They create the fear, provide the solution, and gain power over you (your money).

Politicians are the new high priests and one of their pet demons is "climate change".

But it's not even new or original. Threats from the weather have long been a staple for the priest classes. Raining fire, flooding, drought, etc etc...

It is easy to convince people that weather is both god's work and controlled by the priest class... In our case, they intend to control it with "carbon credits".

Learn to see through simplification of the picture in front of you and the entire world starts to make sense, has never changed, etc. And always the small few who can see things for what they are.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Adaptability and evolution those that can , will , those that

can not, become no more.

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people that pay no price for being wrong.
Thomas Sowell

How does that answer the

How does that answer the question about why temperature gain is supposed to be different this time?