13 votes

A Nation of Laws?

I've been hearing this phrase thrown around a lot lately. I figured I'd check and see what illumination the DP community has to offer on the subject.

Are we a "Nation of Laws?"



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We used to be

Law seems to have been replaced by ignorant perceptions.

Peace

We are a nation of subjective laws

We are a nation of subjective laws and blanket punishments.

That is a horrible combination.

sethster

not sure what your meaning by posting this.

If Ted Cruz becomes prez, you'll be able to say the EXACT same thing about him.
You're a fool and you dont know who his wife is if you dont think so.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

"a government of law, and not of men" - John Adams

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies."
Letter to Zabdiel Adams (21 June 1776)

"we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

More like

"We are a nation of slaves. You just have to check with Washington D.C. everyday to see what they will ALLOW you to do."

-the truth-

Two faces of tyranny: "nations" and "laws" (from Jeremy Locke)

Two excerpts from Jeremy Locke's mind-boggling book The End of All Evil

On "the rule of law":

The rule of law is the single most dangerous idea ever inflicted upon mankind.

It has gone by countless names throughout the ages of history. In more basic tribes it is known as respect for elders. In the tyranny of royalty, it is known as nobility, birthright and divinity. In communism it is known as the supremacy of state. In dictatorships it is known as the antidote to anarchy. In theocracies it is known as revelation.

The net teaching of this idea is that you are to obey the law, not because of its merits or its morality. You are to obey only because it is the law. It is assumed that even if the law is wrong, then it is right to follow because it supports the system, and the system is more important than you.

In order for an intelligent person to choose what is right, they must know who is asking obedience of them, they must consider why it is being asked, and what it is they are being asked to do. Only then can they decide for themselves if it is right. This is not what authority wants. Authority is not concerned with you doing what is right, it is only concerned with obedience.

Culture teaches that the nature of the law and what it asks you to do are irrelevant. Culture teaches that obedience is propriety. Culture teaches that when law is created it becomes morality.

Law is a weapon. It is used by evil to attack its prey. Whether in the name of duty to king, loyalty to state, or rule of law, law is the weapon used to extort and control. Culture upholds the nobility of law. Culture teaches that law is proper and good. It never questions who wrote the law; tyrant and brother are the same. Culture never questions whether or not the law is right. You are to obey no matter what it says. In this fashion, law is a powerful weapon to be used against you. All principalities create volumes of laws that take lifetimes to understand and armies of lawyers to manipulate. All of these things are weapons in the hands of the powerful, which they will use at your expense.

Law holds value only to those who create it, and only because your culture demands that you obey it. The purest invitation to tyranny is your commitment to obey law regardless of what it says. Against you, the law becomes the perfect weapon. Whomever controls the law, controls you. Your worth is measured by the extent of your obedience.

If you believe that being "law-abiding" makes you a good person, you are wrong. It makes you a happy slave.

And Locke wrote this, about "nations":

As the cultures of royalty disintegrated, nations were created to replace them. Authority sought the same stability of extortion that kingdoms provided, but needed to escape the understanding that people had learned about the tyranny of royalty. They created a new enemy, called “them,” and a new culture called “we.”

Nations drew lines across the globe and eventually swallowed up every inch of inhabitable land known to man. All those who live within these lines become the property of the state. They are taught that they own their governments by means of democracy, communism, theocracy and race. They are taught that their nations belong to them. This is the culture of “we.” The truth is that their nations own them.

Nations are created and borders drawn to create stability for authority. While royalty improved stability by convincing people that they owed allegiance to authority, nations took a bigger step and taught people that they were the authority. National cultures deceive the minds of people to more effectively extort money and control.

As soon as you lend credibility to a predatory institution, they will make prey of you. Disguised as sheep, they will have you believe that they are defending you from anarchy, or any other kind of enemy they can devise. Their laws do not speak of these enemies; they speak of you, how much money you owe, and what you will do for them.

Government is an agent of force. As soon as power is yielded to authority, as soon as you give it license to take life and liberty, it becomes an agent of evil. Evil men who seek authority over you will not fight government. All evil that wants is power over you. Evil naturally seeks its place in government.

There have been many forms of nations created, all with varying degrees of effectiveness in their control. Without exception, the strongest governments are those whose culture most effectively convinces people that the people are the government. All others soon fall. This is why democracies are the strongest form of nation possible.

"Nations" are like ranches, run for the benefit of the ranchers, not their cattle. If you are proud to be a "citizen" of some "nation," you are domesticated cattle.

If you'd like to see the whole book, you'll have to download or read it online, here:
Read online in PDF format
Download in MOBI format
Download in EPUB format
Don't feel guilty about taking a free download; the author is no longer selling copies, and the book was published without copyright. Wish I knew what happened to him -- certainly "Jeremy Locke" was not his real name, and his website is defunct. The book is FREAKING INCREDIBLE. Read it.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Cyril's picture

I am waiting for that day of reckoning

I am waiting for that day of reckoning, when people will tell their Perverted Law-Makers:

"Your freaking legal plunder laws? Sure! See, that's like for what you promised us in Obamacare:

you can "keep them if you want", and even - so much so to "keep'em" - shove them up where the sun doesn't shine.

No problemo!"

Sadly, I know it's also likely I will pass away long before that. :/

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Not according to Ron Paul

US lawmakers don’t abide by laws they pass: Ron Paul

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/17/355035/washington-do...

allegory - ˈalɪg(ə)ri/ - noun - 1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

A broken clock is right twice a day

This Fake libertarian neocon shouldn't be quoted on the daily Paul. He's a neocon in libertarian clothing!

Laws are just threats of force

Laws have nothing to do with right and wrong, EVEN if the majority voted for those laws... it makes no difference what-so-ever. Everything Hitler did was entirely legal. Stop looking to political stooges to tell you what right and wrong is...

Do some research into http://voluntaryist.com/fundamentals/introduction.html#.Uymj...

What would Thomas Jefferson say....

Law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

It depends one what you mean

Do you refer to what we are...or what we were supposed to be? What exactly do you see as "Law"?

First of all, what we are is a giant mess of unnecessary intrusive special privilege giving and regulating laws that strangle most peoples chance of ever competing with gargantuan and grotesque mega corporations.

If we are talking about what we were designed to be: I think we ARE a nation of laws. If you take the entirety of the constitution as Law then yes we are a nation of laws. I also am a firm believer in "Natural Law" and because our bill of rights are based on natural law, I see that this country was formed and always meant to be a free country protected by the laws set forth in the constitution.

Further more, by definition, a Republic is a representative government ruled by law (the Constitution). While a democracy is direct government ruled by the majority (mob rule). So...again we are supposed to be a nation of laws.

My 2 Cents

Cruz is calling for the enforcement of unconstitutional militaristic raids on peaceful individuals in states that have utilized the 10th Amendment to nullify the un-enumerated federal war on drugs! Comically he's also arguing the case for federal enforcement of ObamaCare! I love pointing that obvious one out to the lemmings.

Either Cruz is ignorant enough to not even realize this or he has a liberal/expansive interpretation of the Constitution. I personally think he's using small government language to sell tyranny. Insidious!

One more thing. Why is Cruz not extending olive branches to non traditional allies like Rand is in order to grow the party, accomplish common goals, and to beat Hillary? Is Cruz really that bad of a politician? Yes the man has a overall strong voting record according to JBS's Freedom Index but he's casting those votes as a member of the Senate minority so the votes are toothless. Would he cast those same votes as a majority member? Are the toothless constitutional votes a head fake to gain trust? I don't know the answers to all of these questions but I sure as hell don't trust this guy.

I think that's all I have to say about that.

We're a nation of FREEDOM!! (or we're supposed to be!)

I see this crap all the time! And I have to correct my fellow tea party members whenever they use it to indict Obama, which is practically every single day.

We're a nation of FREEDOM!! Or we're supposed to be!

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Three sets in fact.

There is our law: that is the law written to defraud and enslave us.

Then there is " their law ", I'm not sure exactly what it is besides a free pass from being a victim of " our law ".

And lastly " Gods Law ", who most think we're nailed to a tree, but those were the sacrificial law and the " need to keep law without Jesus doing it for us " laws who everyone ignores and no one except Jesus ever kept untarnished by a violation, which is called a sin. Funny how when you love God, you discover that without intention to doing so, and paying them no mind at all, that you keep Gods law because you've gotten His character within you because of faith and love, ironic huh ?

So yea, three sets, and two screw us royaly.

Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

The statement "A Nation of Laws" makes no sense

to me to be honest. Laws and nations require people to exist. People do not require nations or laws to exist. Nations are made up of people who associate with one another. The people precede any laws that they adopt as a group.

From my point of view, we are a Nation of Free People who have a Constitution which limits the laws that our elected representatives can make. The first laws we made were ones which attempted to set limits around the law itself. It worked for a while.

Michael Nystrom's picture

More like a nation of special privileges

If you are interested in this, please read Nelson Hultberg's excellent article on this very topic. Equal Rights vs. Special Privileges

If you have certain groups being exempted from certain "laws" then that law is not a law.

Do you know anyone who gets a special exemption from the law of gravity? Me neither. It applies equally to all. That is the nature of a law.

Ted Cruz is a political loud mouth spewing hot air, just like the rest of them. What is Ted Cruz going to do about all the laws that Congress itself is exempt from?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/03/congress-exempt-from-se...

Thanks for the topic.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

Equal Rights vs. Special Privileges...

That is what it is all about!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

NAZI Germany was a nation of laws too.

So was the Soviet Union.

So what? If the laws are retarded, what does it matter if you are a nation of laws?

A nation of individual free humans

Laws are dictates by dictators who have no authority except what they can exert force upon.

Laws are for slaves imposed by those who think themselves masters.

The GUIDE called the constitution along with the golden rule and the rules of the Jungle are good suggestions.

sovereign

"A nation" precludes freedom.

If you're restricted by borders and by the governments that scribe them, you're not a free individual human. See what Jeremy Locke had to say about them, in my post above.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

A group of free individuals working togeather

At some point words have no meaning.

sovereign

That depends on the words.

"The world is simpler than it pretends." (Quoth Jeremy Locke.) Many words are created deliberately to confuse and obfuscate simple truths. "Laws" is used to put an impressive face on the commands and threats issued by tyrants. "Nations" is used to fool people into thinking of some tyrant's turf as "our country."

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Good points

.

Guide?

Golden rule and law of the jungle? So, what you are basically saying, is that if I feel it is for a OK fitter person to kill me then I should be able to kill you because that would prove I'm fitter? Come now, you know better than that.

NOTE : Man that is a horribly written sentence.

buddy

Face reality. wake up stupid!

sovereign

Classy

Your cutting wit, supported by ample evidence, has rendered further argument futile. I bow to your superior debating prowess and logic.

something something The Matrix

You shouldn't watch The Matrix though, because Hollywood is evil. Only I can watch it, because I'm a TRUE libertarian and as such, only I will be able to understand it. #2free4u

/sarc

A signature used to be here!