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'Life Starts at Conception...So What?"; Mary Williams from Salon Magazine. Indeed! The Pro-Abortion Rhetoric Hits a New Low.

Admitting that life begins at conception should give one pause to consider actions against that life. There is a universe of difference between 'a blob of tissue' like a 'skin tag' and a child who simply has not grown enough to be born yet. The pro-abortion advocates are learning this, and are taking a darker path yet.

"Here’s the complicated reality in which we live: All life is not equal. That’s a difficult thing for liberals like me to talk about, lest we wind up looking like death-panel-loving, kill-your-grandma-and-your-precious-baby storm troopers. Yet a fetus can be a human life without having the same rights as the woman in whose body it resides. She’s the boss. Her life and what is right for her circumstances and her health should automatically trump the rights of the non-autonomous entity inside of her. Always." http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/so_what_if_abortion_ends_life/

She actually hints at the logical end of what she is saying here, while 'pooh-poohing' it: If a life inside the womb is seen as of little value, how long will it be until the handicapped and infirm who have already been born are seen in the same light? This is where we should see clearly the slippery slope we are on. After all, this is the 'logic' used by tyrants of all stripes: religious and irreligious, to remove those they find 'undesirable'.

Admittedly, I have a vested interest in this, and it's not simply the 'more taxpayers' angle. I have seen evidence of my children's unique personalities from the womb: My first born child's sensitivity to my emotions, my middle-born child's peacefulness and frustration with injustice, my youngest child's bouncy, fun-loving nature.

Others see the likeness between myself and my children and comment and I smile. Then I read about an ultrasound nurse who found a 19 week old girl, and heard them say as the baby girl moved her arms behind her head in the same way her father preferred to sleep:

"Look at how cute she is! I wonder if we let her live, who would she look like?"

I can't see saying this of a kitten or puppy, much less a baby girl!
What have we become as a nation when this is a mindset with any weight?

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Bill Gates says if you don't kill off Grampa

we'll just have too fire a bunch of teachers. Grampa is just pulling down the whole system.


Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

Oh please

Not even remotely logical analogy... just reaching.

Taking my Kidney would involve using force of violence to steal part of my body. Abortion uses force of violence to end a life. You dying of kidney disease would require no force of violence on anyone.

Please try something a little more reasonable.


Outlawing abortion is using violence to enforce your opinion of when life begins. How do you not see that?

What if in my opinion my son

What if in my opinion my son is not considered life until...let's say 18 when he's legally old enough to take care of himself? One day I lose my job and decide I cannot afford to take care of a child anymore.

It's your opinion that it's an opinion. Life does start at conception. It's back by science This is a silly argument.


All rational people can agree that killing your 18 year old son is murder. Not all rational people agree as to when life begins. I'm not sure what "It's back by science" means, but your opinion of when life begins is not a fact. It is an opinion. You can not use the government to enforce your opinion of when life begins. It's still inside the woman. Your point about killing your 18 year old son is completely irrational. Is your 18 year old son still living in your wife's womb?

It's irrational to not agree

It's irrational to not agree that life begins at conception. Just what is it then?

Abortion and all it's propaganda is part of the NWO agenda. It's genocide. Look it up. It has nothing to do with "a women's right to choose". You are blind if you can't see an agenda here.

I disagree

When life begins is an opinion because rational people can not agree when exactly that occurs. Not everything is an NWO agenda. I agree that no government money should go toward abortions, but the government can not be interfering with doctor/patient relationships. And they can't enforce one groups opinion of when life begins.


Right to life trumps

The right to live trumps...

Unless mother's life is in jeopardy there is no good reason to end one life for convenience sake.

I'll let you know next time someone needs a kidney to live

So we can take one of yours, since, you know, the right to live trumps everything else. Why should you have two kidneys, for convenience's sake, while someone else dies?

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus


Not even remotely logical analogy... just reaching.

Taking my Kidney would involve using force of violence to steal part of my body. Abortion uses force of violence to end a life. You dying of kidney disease would require no force of violence on anyone.

Please try something a little more reasonable.

you see, this is the problem

The fact that you can't see the analogy. How you are going to enforce making abortions illegal? With violence against women, as well as their doctors.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Should government violate a

Should government violate a woman's liberty to defend the liberty of the potential baby inside her?

I'm not sure I understand

I'm not sure I understand what this means but I sure am interested as I keep reading it to myself. Can you explain what this means?


“As an O.B. doctor of thirty years, and having delivered 4,000 babies, I can assure you life begins at conception. I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there’s a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there’s an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.”
~ Ron Paul

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
~ God
Ron Paul photo autumn-desktop-background-1-1.jpg

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

This verse suggest that life begins BEFORE conception...

and our physical capsule's useful purpose is to carry our spirit....and the spirit never dies.

So, what is life really? The physical capsule or the spirit?

I doubt any spirit is denied life even if an abortion occurs.

I'm not sure whether this is right or not but no man can tell me definitively and those that think they can are only playing God.

Something to consider?

...a newborn baby brings the Messiah closer simply by being born.

The Guf


Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Not sure what that means...

I'm not familiar with The Guf.

I was undergirding the idea that you put forth

"This verse suggest that life begins BEFORE conception..."

as a possibility

According to Jewish mythology, in the Garden of Eden there is a Tree of life or the Tree of Souls that blossoms and produces new souls, which fall into the Guf, the Treasury of Souls. Gabriel reaches into the treasury and takes out the first soul that comes into his hand. Then Lailah, the Angel of Conception, watches over the embryo until it is born.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

TwelveOhOne's picture

Perhaps that's why they posted it in

the form of a link? Sheesh, lead a horse to culture and all...

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
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I checked out the link before commenting...

I just didn't understand it. Sorry, I wasn't raised Jewish, have nothing against it. After reading it though, it hit me as odd, like most religion does. Sorry.


Your last sentence says it all.

There is a difference between life in the womb as of the moment of conception and a full-fledged human being breathing on its own outside of the mother. There is *no question* whether the latter is due all of the rights we believe human beings are endowed with. There is a question, however, as to a just-formed fetus, why the country is divided.

Something quite miraculous happens from one stage to the other that makes a salient difference, at least in the eyes of half the country. *When* that occurs is not clear & something no one can say definitively. It must, therefore, be left to the individual to decide.

To me, a major irony is that the abortion movement is largely influenced by the Catholic church - which would like to outlaw abortion for all (legislate for all citizens based on its own moral beliefs) vs. being able to persuade even its own. Maybe there is more recent information, but it's my understanding that Catholics are more likely to have an abortion that Protestants. http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/abortions-comparing-catholi...

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir



I think what we can agree on

Morally and Philosophically:

1. Murder is wrong.
2. We should protect innocent life.
3. We should be the advocate of people who cannot protect themselves. (Widows and orphans, etc)
4. Parents (mother and father) have an unequivocal responsibility to their children.

1. The federal government have no jurisdiction over murder.
2. States and local governments have jurisdiction over murder.
3. The issue of "abortion" should be deal with from the local community.

1. Life begins in the womb (perhaps you will disagree with the exact timing, but we all should agree it starts in the womb)
2. The child in the womb has no means to support his/her life outside the womb (at least for the first two trimesters)
3. The child can receive inputs from outside the womb (such as music, voices of the mother, father, etc)
4. The child can feel pain and is aware of his or her environment.
5. There are many other aspects of the child during pregnancy is unknown to us scientifically.

Feel free to add to the list or disagree.
Note: I didn't add anything from the Spiritual/Christian points of view, because I think unless you are a Bible believing Christian, we won't be able to agree on those points.

The "scientifically" section

The "scientifically" section of your post isn't entirely accurate. Sperm are alive before conception, as are eggs. Eggs are fertilized before the reach the womb, and those fertilized eggs are also alive (not that 'alive' has any moral meaning here).

"Receiving inputs" does not imply sentience or consciousness.

Though the only thing we need concern ourselves with here is the political point. The Federal government has no reason to be involved, aside from authoritarians trying to force their views on others.

This is an interesting point.

This is an interesting point. A women's own uterus will often expel a fertilized egg (if the environment isn't ideal for implantation to occur). But I think we should all agree that once implantation has occurred that we have a life sustaining situation.


A woman's body will often reject the embryo after implantation. Your logic makes no sense. You're just saying life begins at implantation, not conception, because you don't want to sound crazy for opposing the birth control pill. Your opinion of what constitutes murder is not consistent.

You are the one who is

You are the one who is justifying killing an unborn child because birth control may in a very rare case prevent a fertilized egg from implantation. Who sounds crazy here?


My views on murder are consistent. It's always wrong. You seem to think it's OK sometimes. We differ in opinion as to when life begins. You're saying abortion is murder, but the birth control pill is OK when it causes abortion because it's rare. That's irrational. Either it's murder or it isn't. But if you believe abortion is murder, you can't rationally say murder is OK when the birt control pill is causing the abortion.

So...when does life begin?

So...when does life begin? Let's here it. Does life begin only when the mother finds it convenient?

You don't get it

When life beings is an opinion. It would be immoral for me to say that my opinion of when life begins is a fact that all others should live by.