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Ron Paul's Message Grows Stale

Ouch! I know that hurts, don't take it personally Paulies, but its the truth.

Look, lets not be TOO crazed for Ron Paul that we cannot step back and offer some friendly and helpful suggestions. A movement that is not self correcting does Ron Paul no good, nor does it do us any good if Ron Paul does not do some self correcting himself. Look, I am out here door to door, sending thousands of direct mail letters, so please allow me to call it like I see it. Some here will say this is not the place, if that is so then I appologize, just tell me where that place is and I will make it known that Ron's messages JUST WENT STALE.

Tonight, I just watched the speeches given infront of the Americansforprosperity and I must say Ron Paul needs to loosen up. He needs be friendly, talk as if he was in front of a friendly Ron Paul crowd who hates taxes and spending. That is when his "likeability" comes out. But to speak in a lecturing agressive manner to this crowd was very much out of place it seems to me.

It is not the message itself that is stale, its Ron who has gone stale. And it pains me to say this, trust me, I gave one of the few votes he recieved in 1988. [Ed Clark recieved my first vote as an 18 year old in 1980.] So when I say Ron Paul's message has gone stale, I think you can refrain from attacking me or calling me a sell out to the Revolution. No, I shall be in the LoveRevolution long after Ron leaves politics.

I dare say if Huckabee or Giuliani, the two with the most "off the cuff" friendly personalities, where given the assignment to take our revolution message to the public, they would do a much better job. Of course they do not have our issues or our revolution, but that is not my point here.

Indeed, Rudy killed tonight. He had me believing he was the tax fighter, a tax cutter just dying to cut some more, the one who can "get it done", the one who understood, the one who "knows" its right to cut taxes. Ron Paul knows this too, but he failed to convey that. Did he mention how many times he voted no on Republican Spending bills? Did he mention life in the trenches of the House? No.

Then there was Huckabee who was also impressive. Mike did an excellent job with his 7 minutes to make the case to abolish once and for all, the IRS and that massive tax code. He was so good, that for a second I thought Ron should make him is VP choice. Huckabee, with his oh so caring personality, softens the edges of anyones ticket.

Here is where we are 90 days out. You and I have to get over the "happy phase" that just someone, anyone, is saying on a national level what we know to be right. What we need, I believe, is a loosened up and very comfortable Ron Paul. He needs to "own the mound" as I always tell my little leaguer. And to do that, he needs to come up with a dozen ways of saying the same message. He can stop and "tell a story" or two. He can mention talking to the Chairman of the Federal Reserve a few times. And most of all, because he has the time in such a forum, he could listen to Giuliani's speech and easily make ready remarks about it while its still fresh on people's minds.

No, its not Ron's style to attack, but he can comment on Giuliani's speech directly, even compliment it where its good. He could say why its good, then ask, "but why stop there?" If a tax cut is good, and it grows government income like Supply sider Giuliani says it does, he could have asked this audiance, "do we as Conservatives WANT the government growing bigger? Do we need a government with more money or less? Or do we not want a smaller federal government? I believe that a simple supply-side tax cut, leaving a massive IRS tax code in place, one ends up GROWING government, well to my way of thinking, that is not a good thing. We must come to agre that there are basic functions that we want a federal government to do, namely our courts, our congress, and our national defenses here at home, but not much else. So a simple supply side tax cut is not what I propose, no, I think we must move towards eliminating the Income tax completely. Just imagin all the benefits. Companies would rush in to build and manufacture here again. Good high paying jobs, a growing economy and a rise in the real wages of the working man. Here is another benefit. After my 8 years are through, democrats can propose all the spending they want, but there will be no Income tax for them to pay for it." But such pointed remarks to Giuliani's speech was not to be. Dr. Paul pitched the same old stale bread, the same old thing, the same way, as if it was March 2007.

Its as if he is not listening to the others in the democratic or republican race. Its not just taxes either. Certainly the good Doctor needs to "own" the fight against Hillary, taking it too the idea of Universal Health care with a one two punch, a right hook, and knock out to the chin. But he never does. Our dear fearless leader needs some help.

What Uncle Ron needs a speech writer or writers, a young Karl Hess perhaps, and he needs a one now. (Yes, I would love to throw my name into that hat!). But the fact is Ron has gone stale with the revolution message, and the message needs a lot of freshing up. The message has gone stale in Ron's hands. Even those that disagree with Ron, know it by heart. And please don't tell me he is going to ride it through till the end. And don't tell me that only Rudy can be original and speak to the audiances concerns, incorporate yesterdays news into his speech, attack Hillary's rediculous $5,000 childbond idea, and have something smart to say about privatizing health care. Ron can do that and the fact that he is not doing it, concerns me. And it should concern you too.

Look, there is two reasons why THIS grassroots campaign works so well. If HQ doesn't get it, its time they do. (1) This Campaign for the Revolution is opperating on an information FEEDBACK LOOP and (2) has tapped in to the power of expenential growth which comes from the internet.

SO my friends, we must let those at HQ know that Rons Message has gone stale. There is two reasons that the message from Ron has gone stale, (1) there is a thousand ways to say the same thing, without always saying exactly the same thing. And (2), a listening audience is NOT just listening to the words and message, they are listening for "the man", which means the personality. A personality the tells us the many moods, the temperment, the style of thought, the quickness of thought, the dexterity of thought, the honesty & integrity yes, the empathy and caring and heart that goes into an opinion, and so much more.

Here is what I say we must do, as best we can, is tell the Ron Paul that its time for a new theme and angle.... its time to Run against Rudy by commenting on his words in his speeches and its time to talk about "the transision periods ahead". There is a transision period ahead whether the american people know it or want it. You know it so does Ron. How do we adjust? How do we "get by with less?". How do we deal with a crashing dollar? Rudy, how are you going to deal with a crashing -non oil based - dollar? How are you going to pay the massive entitlements that are already in place? With another Supply side tax cut? That will not be enough Rudy. That will not be enough to (as Huckabee said) "bring back the trillion dollar manufacturing base that left the country decades ago because our tax code chased them away". Huckabee is right, we MUST scrap the tax code in order to BRING back our manufacturing base, bring back good jobs and bring back a higher standard of living for us all. But why is Huckabee saying this, those should be Ron Paul's words. Even Giuliani sounded more anti tax and more pro free market than Ron Paul.... and THAT should be a real wake up to my dear Uncle Ron Paul (ok, not my uncle, but my three year old calls him uncle in our household because, well, dad is a Ron Paul junkie). So yes, it pains me to say this about our fearless leader.

So Ron, listen up, you have gone Stale. Hire some speech writers, get some coaching.... This is a new ballgame, you are out of the Minors, you are now in the Major League. Razel us with some sliders and some spit balls. Look over your shoulder at your competition on first base and fire off a curve ball to home plate. A strike is a strike is a strike, its the delivery that must keep the batters off balance.


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"The Candidate"

Remember the film with Robert Redford, "The Candidate", where a perfectly natural and good man became so "handled" that he could no longer make his own decisions but always looked to his handlers for what to do next? A consequently ineffective man and President.

I like Ron Paul BECAUSE he is not Huckabee or Giuliani, nor has their personalities. I like Ron Paul because he is not a sophisticate.

I imagine he does have close friends giving him feedback as appropriate. And it is not our place to remake the man.

I say, "Let it Be"

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

Good constructive stuff...

I agree with Treg for the most part. Keep the product, just spruce up the packaging. Ron often seems angry when he speaks, and I would love to see a calmer Romney-grin" more often. I respect Ron & like his ideas... but I need to want to BBQ with him and share a few brews...

Ron is who he is, and I respect him. Intelligent info can convince 10% of the population, but the other 90% needs smiles, puppy dogs & children. Look at the expensive TV ads... what do we see over and over? What makes people pay attention and like something? Does an old rag, Bounty or Brawny seem like a quicker picker upper? All have about the same picker-upper capabilities, one is just packaged and sold better.

Dr. Paul is the best product, his wrapping is just a bit plain... Like Treg, I am with him for the long haul though... either way!

How many ways can we say the same thing?
Freedom does not grow old!
Liberty is always refreshing!
Freedom is eternally new!
Liberty & freedom are like eternaly blossoming flowers.
Freedom is always "in."
Freedom is hot!

Ron Paul

Ron Paul says it himself, "I've been talking this way for thirty years."

What made you love him?

That is what everyone else is finding out as well.

He's been talking this way for thirty years, and his message is pure.

Purity does not evolve, it remains pure.

"Freedom Is A Road Seldom Traveled By The Multitude." - Frederick Douglass


Ron Paul isn't the greatest speech giver out there, but we have to remember that he hasn't really been a 'politician' in the traditional Washington sense.
Are there times I wish he'd give more attention in the debates to domestic issues? Yes. I think when you bring up the war once or twice in a debate that's enough.
Treg, you've been a libertarian for a long time I would guess. You voted for Paul back in 1988. We have been hearing the same basic message for a long time. Do remember that most of the public hasn't. Also I know I seek out videos of Dr. Paul giving speeches. Most people will only hear him talk a couple maybe a few times before the election.

Some good criticisms, but let's not forget that Dr. Paul's ability to get us this far, is surprising. I've been watching since before he declared and I frankly never expected him to make it thus far.

Gandhi's message was also stale

The man couldn't speak well nor forcefully. But it was the essence of who he was, and the timeliness of his message that mattered.

Has the Constitution grown state? Freedom? Not to me.

However, as I have often stated, Dr. Paul needs a coach; not for the message, but for its delivery.


Indeed I've thought Ron needs a little debate coaching but he does a great job in general. He handles it great when he's attacked, I suppose he's used to it. A little rhetoric wouldn't hurt.

"we fear change, especially nickels"

"we fear change, especially nickels"

Well, thought out

Your critique is well reasoned and well thought out, Treg, and to an extent I agree. But one of the things that must be taken into account is that it matters not to those of us who have already been sold if we hear the same message over and over. During the sadly limited times that he has had time to actually DEBATE with one of the other candidates he has done pretty well. In fact, that's Gulliani thing was what catapulted him onto the national stage. I believe that when he gets a chance to actually debate these folks once again, maybe he will do well again. But when he is just stating his position, his time is so limited that he has little time for attacking his opponents. He must needs concentrate on getting his message out to those who have yet to hear it. For those of us who look at every video of his it will seem repetitive and stale, but to those seeing it and hearing it for the first time it will seem fresh and new, and those are the people we need to bring in.

Now that others are catching onto the fact that this message is taking hold and beginning to talk like him, he will be able to better address their inconsistencies WHEN he gets to talk to them directly, and I'm sure that his campaign staff has been anticipating this exact eventuality. Hopefully we'll see some of that tonight.

Defence is the best attack!

Let the other challenge him!
By answering honestly and directly, instead of using some dirty rethoric trick, Dr. Paul would triumph in any challange thrown at him. His standpoints are solid an impregnable. The best way to demonstrate it is to put them to the most difficult and dangerous test of all by inviting unexpected attacks in live TV! He would not stumble, he would not ignore the challenge and he would not turn a dirty rethoric trick. He would simply explain his standpoint logically and morally.

A top priority should be to provoke the others to challenge him live.

It may be stale to you;BUT not for those that are new to the msg

"What Uncle Ron needs a speech writer or writers, a young Karl Hess perhaps, and he needs a one now. (Yes, I would love to throw my name into that hat!)."

Yea - please don't.. we actually want to win.

"That will not be enough to (as Huckabee said) "bring back the trillion dollar manufacturing base that left the country decades ago because our tax code chased them away". Huckabee is right, we MUST scrap the tax code in order to BRING back our manufacturing base, bring back good jobs and bring back a higher standard of living for us all.

Erhm... you really think the large corporations and companies are going to sacrifice their bottom lines; for US citizens? - whom would have MUCH higher wages than those in manufacturing hubs, like China with intensely cheap labour... etc. LOL - yea if they're stupid & don't value their shareholders. It's called GLOBALIZATION. (And the globalization of production, look up the term some time)

"But why is Huckabee saying this, those should be Ron Paul's words."

I personal believe, they're trying to cut him down - Ron Paul really does have a chance and his biggest asset is his honesty, non-bullshit approach. You talk about him not being friendly... the problem is NOT Ron Paul it is the game, the American public. 'Why'd you vote for .... because he seemed like a guy I would like go have a beer with'. He's running for the President of the United States - he's not on American IDOL. The public needs to change, not him.

I also believe that the other candidates - Mr Sept 11 and others, are making a deliberate and calculated effort to cut him down, by stealing policies etc. in subtle ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDeDzMDJF8 (Hillary & Edwards Conspiring Caught on Tape) now if the democrats campaigns of a few members are getting together. I don't see it too unlikely that the same is going on in The Republican party...

If a "fringe" candidate dominates and whips the shit out of everyone consistently in the sms polls and internet voting. I'm SURE they've had chats and composed strategies to slow it down. They'd be stupid not too.

I think the message may be becoming stale for you, and it is slightly for me aswell. I've seen all the videos etc. But thats because we've been supporting for so long, and known about him. FOR those that are new to his message, its a breathe of fresh air!


Yeah, I agree that communal stuff isn't our focus, but I do like the point... we have so many factions of similar minded folks including Liberty Movement, Objectivists, Milton F fans, Celebrate Capitalism movement, libertarians, anti-tax folks ... etc... the problem is, we don't look at the 80% bundle of issues that we agree with... we look at the 20% we disagree with and use it as a reason not to join forces. There are 1000 similar-minded "groups" in our country, but how do we pool our strength and cause?

Imagine if all of "us" joined together in a loose formation... agnostics, the christian right etc... we DO agree with some basics... and we don't have to agree on everything.

I am concerned that our "cause" that is booming now with our shared passion for Dr. Paul... needs some long-term cohesion so that in case our leader of the day falls... the movement will remain strong.

Since we have a two-party system and probably will for a long time... perhaps the albeit-stagnant RLC.com is a good common meeting place for us?

Amen brother

No one should be writing Ron Paul's speeches, but him. NO ONE.
I am almost tempted to agree with some of the posts here that Ron needs to go on the offensive, but I disagree with HOW. It's not through mud-slinging - that's not Ron's style. He's doing his thing and it worked for all of us. Ron's job is to stay philisophically consistant and our job is to spread the word. He says we should lead by example and that's what he's doing. By acting like an adult and and an educated man at these debates, he is winning. The others look childish and ignorant. Let them fall over themselves as they try to emulate him, they will be shown to be liars.

And damn straight there are backroom deals going on. Why do you think they all ass-kissed McCain in that one debate? They wanted to keep him "top tier" so that Ron couldn't step in.

What they are doing is called collusion and they need to be exposed.

There is much work to be done. Everybody do something every day! Flyer, hang banners, donate, do anything you can. DO SOMETHING EVERY DAY.

Look At All The Happy Creatures

He is stale only because...

the other candidates' campaigns are advising their candidates to co-opt Ron's messages. Huckabee advocating abolishing the IRS - now where and why did he get that stuff? Ron needs to call them on the carpet when they pull that stuff and tell them that it's about time.

Not Stale, just honest and sincere

Cal Wortman
I disagree completely, Ron Paul does not come across as stale, rather, he comes across as honest and sincere. The widespread reception of his message is directly attributable to his candor and the consistency of his message. I do not think he should change a thing, the very quality that makes him attractive to voters is his honest demeanor, it is said that a Liberal heard him speak and told him he did not agree with one thing that the Congressman stood for but would vote for him, if he ran, because of his honesty. Let's just contribute and work for this refreshing candidate and not try and change the person behind the message.

Cal Wortman
You all seem to have fallen into the trap of voting for the lesser of two evils. This will still result in getting another power hungry war mongerer in office. I believe an independent or 3rd party run is necessary if Dr. Paul does not succee

Honesty really is the best policy

Not to make a comparison that might make you all cringe, but I voted for Nader in 2000 simply because he was the most honest man in the race. I didn't agree with his politics, but I trusted him to not intentionally fuck me over. To take that Nader comparison away, our message is much more needed and timely than his was. 2008 will be a crossroads for America, the stakes are higher and people have seen what false candidates bring them. We stand a much better chance than Nader ever did, but we also share the advantage of an honest candidate.

Look At All The Happy Creatures

I agree! I don't think it

I agree!
I don't think it would help him to start talking like a used car salesman.

However, he could interact more AND remain honest and sincere. If given opportunity, he should sometime directly challange Romney or Giuliani during a TV-debate. You know, they differ completely on all issues, so there must be plenty of opportunity if only the debate format allows for such interaction.

I havn't seen his AFP performance (anyone got a link?) but I was disappointed with the impression he gave at the PBS debate. Luckily, CNN later aired only his best (only really good) statement there which was the one about the war on drugs.

He needs coaching before the debates, of course! A speech writer? No. He is a formidable speaker and he knows by heart what to say. But the 30 second format of TV-debates requires well rehersed lines. And because it is the interaction between candidates which is most interesting (it was not at all allowed at PBS which was more like simultaneous interview of the candidates than a real "debate"). It was the attack from Giuliani in the first TV-debate which put the spotlight on Ron Paul. Now he himself should "attack", or interact.

yes and no

I think there is a middle ground. Yes, I believe some of Ron's comments should start to address some specific issues - many people agree with him on principle, but wonder just what a Ron Paul presidency will look like.

Now as for current events, if you want to be consistent, and correct on these things, you need to do a bit of research, and thinking, and this is difficult with such a small staff, while you are travelling. Remember, Rudy has a ton of polsters, advisors, etc telling him what to say and he has no principles to be consistent with. Better to do your fact checks, and consider your opinions than try to immediately answer problems.

This will never be a conventional campaign, and it shouldn't strive to be like one. That's part of the beauty of the candidacy. My wife was convinced by the his closing statement at the value voters debate, part by knowing that he said those things in front of that audience.

That said, I agree there could be some improvements.

Paul's message

I doubt that Dr. Paul decides what shows he goes on, I have a feeling his staff may make his schedule, he may have some input. How would he have time with all the different things he has to do. It is mind boggling to me. It seems that he is seldom given more than a minute to answer a question. I know what you mean about the message but some of it has to come from the interviewer with a follow up question. When they give him a follow up question he will give more detail. Dr Paul is in a position now that he has never been in, large numbers of people listening. I am sure having so many people coming at you constantly must be a bit overwhelming. When does he ever get rest?

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

wolfe's picture

on the money...

I felt this way after the Value Voters debate... and after the PBS debate my #1 thought was, damn, they were delivering RP's message better than him.

This has to change. He NEEDS to deliver his own message better than they do. They are stealing every one of his points but delivering it better. Unfortunately, this means people will buy into the lip-service being paid by these other guys.

I think it is partially our fault. We cheer him at every turn, he can do no wrong. This has led him down the path of trying to deliver applause lines. We don't need applause lines, we need our well reasoned witty leader back... :)

Now, that being said... He has proven he knows how to run a campaign. He has even ran attack ads when appropriate in the past. So, I am gonna trust he will turn this around somehow.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Ron Paul quote

"I do not believe that ideas have an expiration date". --Ron Paul

And if what Glen Beck said

And if what Glen Beck said today is true.. I AM BUMMED.. If Dr. Paul has been invited on his show and has not responded back.. or agreed once and then cancelled at the last minute... Which is what Glen said tonight... I AM HIGHLY BUMMED..

I have HATED the fact Dr. Paul has not be gettin any MSM and to hear that he HAS.. but has not availed himself of it...

Well.. ya know... it BUMS me

Ron Paul skipped Glenn Beck? Good.

Don't be bummed about RP missing Glenn Beck. IMHO the guy is more dangerous than O'Reilly or Hannity. Why? The morons on FOX are rude and overtly hostile to their guests. It's a full frontal assault with blatant partisan bias.

Glenn Beck's ambushes are more subtle and skillful. He's dances about humorously entertaining the audience while quickly stabbing his guest in the back. When the interview is over most viewers don't even realize it happened.

It's not that I don't think Ron Paul could destroy Glenn Beck in a fair debate, it's just that the show's format is SO slanted in favor of the host (time, questions, etc) that it's hard to gain any ground.

I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Ron Paul.


...if he did cancel, i'm sure it was a well thought out tactical move by the campaign.

I doubt RP has cancelled on Beck

Seems unlikely. He's been on O'Reilly and Maher and Stewart and Colbert's programs, and spanked Hannity twice already; why would he back way from Beck?

It would be nice to get a little info from HQ about this though. No fun fighting in the dark.

Get active NOW to put Ron in the general election. ronpaul.meetup.com

What is begun in anger, ends in shame.

He Did Cancel

I remember when Ron cancelled on Glenn Beck, it was May 16th, right after that debate where Sean Hannity attacked him bigtime. Glenn Beck had a poll on his website Dr. Paul was winning, and they took it down, no explanation.

Ron did a spot from the Capital with Wolf Blitzer on CNN the afternoon of May 16 and backed out of Glenn Beck's show that night, and I don't blame him. I'm sure Glenn Beck would have been tearing him apart alot more than Wolf did.

This same thing has been

This same thing has been said over n over lately..

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!! and I am a donor meetup rabid supporter and will be TO THE END!!!

But the message needs to EVOLVE... One of the editorial boards remarked recently that Dr. Paul didn't really have a vision for what he would do IF he were president... HOW WOULD HE GO ABOUT IMPLEMENTING PROGRAMS!!

Now I don't want the Dr. to have to be too specific especially on contrversial issues... But when someone says.. "you want to get rid of the FBI" I wish he would say.... NO.. I want to get rid of a whole lot of these other things first... and put some TRUELY INTELLIGENT folks in charge at the FBI

Dr. Paul needs to evolve his message... tailor it to current events, or other candidates issues... Do some polling or focus groups and find out which couple two or three of his messages would play good when evolved..

Like it or not... THIS IS ABOUT WINNING AN ELECTION.... and strategy MUST be employed... the ENDS ... the pure true faith to the Constitution.... DEMANDS IT..

I second this threads advice... I hope someone is TAKING IT TO THE CAMPAIGN!!


Oh how it hurts to hear this---but no pain no gain!!! I really love and support our RON PAUL and I hope he can get past this and reach the masses. Everyone does not feel about him the way we do. He can say the same thing over and over and we smile and cheer and love him loudly. I am afraid this old grandma sees what you are saying and is trying very hard not to stick my head in the sand. Can you send this message directly to HQ? They need to read it and ponder it and build on it. The time is now, the place is front and center. He can do this. We are behind him, but only he can overcome the problem at hand. Pray, Pray and Pray some more. Then go do it.
Blessings and Much Aloha

Dr. Paul 2008

hmmm... okie

you got a link to them? I can understand how that could be true, I'd jus like to see :)
"The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves."

George Washington
First President of the USA.

≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make
violent revolution inevitable."
John F. Kennedy

The simplicity

You can sit down and read the constitution in an afternoon. There is a beauty in simplicity when it comes to politics. When things get convoluted, they become corrupt (see: our tax system). Keep in mind THE MAJORITY of Americans have not heard anything about Ron Paul other than his name. As we near the primaries, I think the simple message will resonate. It's not all about us who already hear his message, it's about getting new people, which will probably be the same way he attracted all of us here: Simple constitutional government.

The Simplicity Remark

Excellent post. Agree that we do hear the same things, but remember that all of us have listened to Dr. Paul's message and have come to the conclusion that he is our Candidate. As mentioned by "Blacklight" we are now pushing for further expansion of our base and although it might seem to be somewhat worked over information to all of us, that approach will get many on board that have never paid any attention to the debates up to now.

There are plenty of speeches where Dr. Paul talks about various issues and a lot of this information is fresh and interesting but by the same token must be covered by Dr. Paul to get these prospects thinking about him as a potential for winning the Primary and then without question being the best candidate to stand up to HC and her constantly taking opposite positions depending on who she is talking to.