2 votes

Rand Paul's views on Russian sanctions should be cause for alarm.

So I recently was able to ask Rand (at an San Francisco) event this week about his most recent statements in an op-ed he wrote for Time in support of economic and visa sanctions on Russia and how he was advocating activating the missile defense shield apparatus back in Poland and in the Czech which Obama closed down.

link to op-ed --- http://time.com/17648/sen-rand-paul-u-s-must-take-strong-act...

Rand Quote from Time article:

"I recommend a number of specific and decisive measures to punish Putin for his ongoing aggression.

Economic sanctions and visa bans should be imposed and enforced without delay. I would urge our European allies to leverage their considerable weight with Russia and take the lead on imposing these penalties. I would do everything in my power to aggressively market and export America’s vast natural gas resources to Europe. "

"I would reinstitute the missile-defense shields President Obama abandoned in 2009 in Poland and the Czech Republic, only this time, I would make sure the Europeans pay for it."

Don't punish the people of Russia when it is the politicians who are at fault.

I initially prefaced it with my concerns as well as the Liberty movement's concerns regarding his vote for economic sanctions on Iran. I asked him if he felt that sanctions could potentially cause unintended consequences such as blow-back and increased hatred for the United States much like occupation and preemptive war does. He was walking to his car so I had to walk and talk so I felt he wasn't pressured into giving the most sincere answer. I wish he would have given me a straight answer but instead gave the biggest politicians answer I have ever heard....in fact it was so much so that I walked away saying to myself...

"What the hell did he just say? Was that English?".

And the worst part of it was that he had done this runaround multiple times during a private event with ONLY LIBERTY activists in attendance who asked other pressing questions.

His answer was one of a politician..not an answer by a principled statesmen.

Yes he is not his father but I sure damn will not turn a blind eye to the fact that Rand is questionable in his philosophies and beliefs of what liberty is all about.

I am very aware of the possibility that he is using a more pragmatic and political strategy to make liberty more appealing to the masses but what I fear is he is sacrificing the principles of liberty to gain political office. We don't need another politician to be president-we need someone who wants liberty and freedom to thrive.

We all came here because of the amazingly honest and straightforwardness that Ron Paul had as a statesmen. He mattered not what others thought. What was important to him was promoting the cause of liberty. To him the idea of any form of sanctions are an act of war. Recently during an interview with The Guardian, Dr. Ron Paul even came out unequivocally opposing the Obama administration or of other's move to place sanctions yet again upon another nation.

link to guardian article --- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ron-paul-crimea...

from the Guardian article:

The former Republican congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul has launched a scathing attack on what he calls a US-backed coup in Ukraine, insisting the Crimean people have the right to align their territory with Moscow and characterizing sanctions against Russia as “an act of war”.

He also said providing economic aid to Ukraine was comparable to giving support to rebels in Syria knowing it would end up in the hands of al-Qaida.

The libertarian guru’s remarks in an interview with the Guardian are almost diametrically opposed to those of his son, the Republican presidential hopeful Rand Paul, who has called for stiff penalties against Russia and declared: “If I were president, I wouldn’t let [Russian president] Vladimir Putin get away with it.”

This political game that Rand is playing is a destructive one--one that will lead him astray from the liberty movement and in the arena of panderers and vote-getters.

No matter what his intentions are I have a strong feeling he will loose of lot of his fathers supporters do to his political jargon that drips from his mouth when he gives answers in contrast to his father Ron who will give you a straight answer.

We must secure the future of liberty and something we must do as lovers of liberty is to hold these politicians accountable. If they claim to be lovers of liberty we must hold them to it and make sure they adhere to things like the non-aggression principle,(non-interventionism---as Ron would say) and unabridged peace and commerce with all.

So with such uncertainty that has been expressed also shines a dim light of hope and belief that Rand, with the help from his father, are trying to take this Libety movement to a whole new level and make liberty appealing as possible with a whole new range of avenues to take it.

It has been said that the best leaders are those that do not desire to lead...lets hope Rand doesn't want to lead, but rather to allow us to lead our own lives as we see fit should he seek the presidency.

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Ron Paul shows us exactly how to deal with Rand Paul

I think that Ron is showing us exactly how to handle Rand. Keep speaking out, which pressures Rand to be as Libertarian as possible but also keep pointing out that he is more Libertarian than anyone else in the Senate. In other words, support Rand Paul as a candidate, but never stop pressuring him to be more Libertarian. Just another example of the genius of Ron Paul.

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

Pro-freedom political and media activity

Thank you! This wise advice applies not only to Rand Paul, but to ALL political and media activists at all levels, local, State, and Federal.

Politicians, and more importantly, journalists, must be made more aware that we exist, that there are libertarian constituencies out there, from Raw milk and drug (especially marijuana)legalization to second Amendment issues and Peace concerns, from End the Fed to end taxation-especially the IRS! These constituencies will volunteer, will contribute time and $$$$, and will vote! If neglected or ignored, we won't!

Our activity becomes MORE important, the higher our people rise in DC/NWO Sewage Inc. (otherwise known as the U S government-and its State subsidiaries). The greater the power they and their offices hold, the greater the attraction for sociopathic and criminal elements to own and exploit them, whether it be the mayor of a large city, e.g. Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, or Atlanta, the Governorship (or important legislative chairmanship)of a State, or the Headquarters of the DC monstrosity on the Potomac itself! Countervailing pressure becomes imperative! Rand Paul is right now the most important figure in this, but certainly not the only one!

Encourage him when he is right, but scorn and attack him when he is wrong...

PEACE AND FREEDOM!

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi

This Post Already Withered Away

...please let it die with dignity.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

I'm not sure "alarm" or "uncertainty" are the right words.

Thanks for sharing your experience, but if you mean greater alarm, relative to other conservative politicians, that seems to imply that Rand is expected to be a part of the broader liberty revolution, and I think the one thing he has always been honest about is that he doesn't claim to be that.

I donated to his first senate campaign, and I've gotten what I expected from him in return. It's a bit funny that for a politician as typically slippery as Rand, that he gets the most flak around here for the ONE thing he has always been consistent about, both in public and in private, from what I hear: that he isn't, and never intends to be a part of the liberty movement. He has a very pure and true philosophy of his own: I want to be the President.

Rand Paul, his Presidential ambitions, and US foreign policy

Thank you ever so much for posting this, enjoiskaterguy,

This is exactly why Rand Paul-and other officeholders-NEED a liberty movement. This periodic need for a "backbone transplant" on his part, and the part of others like him, is a great service the Daily Paul-and similar websites, can offer freedom advocates! There are ENORMOUS pressures on him every day to sell out, to support the elements which are pushing the DC government into new wars-in Syria, in Yemen, in Ukraine, in Pakistan, and so on...

He, and his fellow politicians have to be aware that peace and America-First constituencies exists. We exist, they will gladly contribute time and money to campaigns, we will vote-and help to Get Out The Vote-in sensitive districts, and we will enthusiastically support him-and advocates of liberty like him- in contested Primaries and caucuses against rivals, and we will post letters to the editor, make call-ins on Radio shows, to give him a good word at every opportunity in our blogs, websites, and YouTube videos.

Contrarywise, if OUR candidates or politicians yield to the pressure and "compromise"-read surrender-to go along to get along politics as usual, then our support will go elsewhere, and/or the election will be ignored. STAND WITH RAND!!-but only if he stands for us, for our country, and for liberty! If he doesn't, or can't, then we can't-and won't!!

PEACE AND FREEDOM!

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi

There is quite a division here on Rand.

I don't know what the percentages are but I feel like it is about an even split, or at least in the ballpark of that, on voting for Rand for president if it even comes up.

When Rand makes comments that seem anti-liberty such as supporting sanctions (that his dad called "an act of war"), or supporting putting missiles on somebody's border, the defense is that he is playing a long game. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but if he was playing a long game, he can't very well say so.

So it comes down to trying to convince those of us that are skeptical to trust him on faith alone, or because of his bloodlines. I am a man of faith, but that is in my creator. When it comes to imperfect humans, I give them the benefit of the doubt until they bear bad fruits.

Rand hasn't actually produced bad fruits (just some poor words), but he is not yet in a presidential position to do so. I am going to remain on the sideline and give him a little lead way for the time being, but I hope he doesn't think he is a lock to get all his dad's fans. Maybe his dad's base isn't enough to really matter percentages wise, but my vote doesn't go automatically to him.

Also, to the Rand faithful, you won't convince anyone to bring their vote to Rand with vinegar, try some sugar.

thoughtful post

i found the review & rebuttal interesting here:
http://www.tomatobubble.com/id505.html

Interesting

I read most of it and there are some good points. Rand supporters would argue that he doesn't mean what he says, he is just being politically savy. Who knows for sure, I don't. Only Rand really knows what is in his heart.

Get a clue.

Rand plays chess and the "Drama Queens" play checkers.

Live in Liberty
Tom Rankin

I'm with Ron here. I've

I'm with Ron here. I've already came to the conclusion he had before him, (not boasting just stating...) that the US and EU are/were behind the events that unfolded. I'm not sure if what Rand is saying about this is really what he means to say or if he's just continuing his from what I believe is a political strategy to continue to gain support and allies as future preparations. That's just my perspective opinion.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

I don't get it...

...What is the point of this post? He said something that maybe you didn't like but your not sure because you didn't hear him or at least could have possibly not heard him correctly, by your own admission? You are inclined to be upset with the answer he gave because if it was what you might have heard then he's a political hack? Give me a break

I guess I'm not alone

we are seeing the preemptive

we are seeing the preemptive strike on Rands run for the Republican nomination. People here just do not understand that politics is a game of chess. Yes sometimes we do not like what we hear. I remember Ron Paul giving his support to some neocon in Texas. The daily Paul was in an uproar, and Ron had let everyone know that if he were to go against his party all the time, it would cause blowback on him. For some reason some people just don't get it.

I have seen lots of things that Rand has done that I know his father is proud of. Some of the simple minded purists on this site need to think. Carol has told us that there is no difference between Ron and Rand.

I don't think he literally

I don't think he literally meant he did not hear him, he was in disbelief over what he heard, because it was a neocon type answer on the issue. By neocon type I mean putting economic sanctions on someone and surrounding them with missiles is an aggressive move.

Ron Paul called sanctions "an act of war", and I am going to go out on a limb and just guess that he would oppose putting missiles on Russia's borders, unlike his son's apparent stance.

Wake up

Putin is a tyrant in a militaristic coercive state and you idiots are practically cheering for him.

Frankly I don't think sanctions are worth anything. And I don't support our govt but I sure as fk don't support the Russian KGB agent and his eternal presidency.

Russia will continue to take land and people they way they did in Georgia and the Ukraine and don't kid yourselves - there were many people in Crimea opposed to "joining" Russia.

A Tyrant?

While I have been "fact seeking" through all of this Ukrainian/US/Russia issue, I hardly find Russia or Putin at fault here. Try understanding how the US has helped engineer all of this. For What? Russia isn't an enemy, unless you are still stuck in the Cold War US brainwashing. Why is NATO violating the 2008 agreements? It goes on and on, and who is behind it all?
Sorry folks, this isn't a US vs Russia issue. It is the US once again doing what they do throughout the world, causing more trouble in the so called name of "Democracy", protecting the Petro Dollar, globalists, mindless neo cons, and the military industrial complex.

Is it...

...really a surprise that Russia would not like NATO/EU/US expansionism pushing right up to their doorstep, in contradiction to promises and assurances we gave them that it would 'not move an inch' to the East if they went along with a reunified Germany going to NATO? In Georgia and Ukraine, the West has been initiating or encouraging the destabilization and violence, and then Russia responds. It's one thing to scare or fight off a bear that is roaming near your home. Quite another to go out of your way to walk up to its den and start pelting it with rocks and acting surprised when it reacts.

Non-interventionism, non-militarism, peaceful trade with all, being an example of Liberty at home -- this is what we should be focused on. Leave the bear and its cubs alone.

Georgia was another...

example of the western empire's encroachment on Russian borders. I have my own republic in turmoil and wish the people of Ukraine the best in their quest for liberty. We are not the world's police!

I guess I'm not alone

These clowns will go to their graves saying

Rand Paul just playing political football. He is just acting like a Zionist NeoCon warmongering clown. Really he is a son of Ron Paul and everyone knows the nut don't fall far from the tree. So its all one huge deceptive LIE ACT really Rand is a huge libertarian constitutional no interventionist like his daddy RIGHT?

Slaves need masters.

sovereign

Rand can...

...at least get the ship of state moving in the Liberty direction, keeping his rhetoric pulled further in than what others like us are comfortable with sometimes. There will be some tacking left and right, but If the overall motion over time is on a Liberty trajectory, that'll still have us going the right way. We can debate along the way whether we will just get the ship of state safely into port and stay on it, or disembark into pure voluntarism.

Cause for CELEBRATION!!!!

Cause for CELEBRATION!!!!

Rand is going to do whatever he can to become President which means, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PAUL AND A LIBERTARIAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

His Dad didn't play the bullshit game, but Rand is. Rand is going to beat the lying scum-suckers at their own game.

If you don't see this, or you're some sort of Puritan, well go back up on the porch, grab a tall glass of STFU and chill out cause you're doing more harm than good. Unless of course you want Bush III or Clinton II????

the lying scum suckers

invented the game. don't kid yourself.

No they didn't! Politics,

No they didn't! Politics, politicians and games have been around for centuries. Research ancient Rome and/or the Greeks! Rand understands game theory, you purists on this site or ideologues who can go back to the Libertarian party where you'll stagnate yourself until you expire.

appear to be in agreement

you appear to be in agreement with me, since i'm referring to the earliest of govt/politics.

btw libertarian thinking is growing everyday and infiltrating all parties and think tanks. why? ron paul, the patriot act, foreign policy, nsa etc etc etc.

Somebody can't get enough kool-aid. Lol.

All is well in the world, Christ has returned in the form of a Kentucky Senator that perms the top of his head.

You've been he 1.5 years,

You've been he 1.5 years, friend! Clearly you're either a troll or stupid.

Well I got at least 2 up

Well I got at least 2 up votes, so If I am stupid or a troll, I am not alone.

I can admire a man, but I won't cross get into over the top, American Idol level worship. That would conflict with my belief system, and is just silly to do, IMO.

You know what sounds like trolling? Telling everyone that is not on the Rand Paul gravy train w/biscuit wheels, to go back to the porch and drink a tall glass of STFU.

The "gravy train" is what

The "gravy train" is what exposed Ron Paul to the mainstream. The gravy train got blimps put into the air; got videos and songs written about the man; created passion; and had the establishment running scared. No, it wasn't enough to get Ron elected, but it was enough to set a path for future candidates like Rand and, hopefully, others like Justin Amash.

Rand is his father's son. If you believe Rand to be any different, then what your saying is that you don't trust Ron and his teaching or fathering. I trust Ron. I trust also that the man raised a great clan, and taught them what liberty and freedom really mean.

It's clear Rand studies history. It's also clear that Rand studies his father. I also believe Rand learned from his father's mistakes, mainly that in order to win, you need to play the game, their game.

The ends justify the means in Washington D.C., and if you cannot understand this you should find other interests.

"if you cannot understand

"if you cannot understand this you should find other interests."

Between this comment and the one about drinking a big glass of STFU, you sound like a controlling person. It would be a scary proposition to consolidate too much power in your hands, IMHO.

I can agree with you on liking Justin Amash, and I would vote for him without a second thought. Rand, not so much, his neocon friendly rhetoric on national security is troubling.

Rand is going to have a hard time in winning the presidency because of issues like gay marriage, abortion, and corporate taxes. That is not to say I don't like his positions, but good luck with the general public that lacks critical thinking skills. Right now Rand is in control of what issues are front and center, and that won't be the case if he is the nominee. If he is the nominee, and if I opt to vote at all, I would probably vote for him even though I find him 75% appealing. I am not going to have a candidate I agree 100% with, so whomever is the lesser of two evils to me, will have to do, or maybe I will just not vote and lend legitimacy to a rigged system.

Do you understand Washington?

Do you understand Washington? Do you understand the Corporatism that owns it? Do you understand that if you want to be President, not just run, but actually win you need to suck up to the MIC, Banks, Retail, Big Oil, Big Pharm, and Tech to a smaller extent. No President can escape it, and no one can win without them.

Ron Paul knew this. I'm not saying he ran knowing he was going to lose, he ran on principal and when you do that it blocks out all the noise. He also knew that his voice in the race was an important one, and he knew just by running he could wake people up--which he did.

IMHO, Rand is a different animal. Rand isn't running to take a moral stand, Rand is running to win.

This is a major shift from Ron's campaign, but it's an important one. And if you ideologues cannot see this, you're doing more harm than good.

If Rand truly is only half the man Ron is, then that's still 100Xs better than Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. And that means it's 100Xs better for my children....

So an honest man cannot

So an honest man cannot become president.

Rand cannot possibly be an honest man if he has to be dishonest to win. SIMPLE logic.

You are settling when you say you will take lesser than Ron if it means beating Hillary or Jeb Bush. You are not getting Ron or any number of individuals with Ron's level of integrity, you are choosing the lesser of two evils. How has that worked out so far?

If you want Rand to be president because he is good enough, good luck to you. I think you just vicariously want to feel like a winner through your candidate. I won't vote for him, and I am a huge fan of his dad, so how do u think that general election is going to go? Pipe dream my friend, pipe dream.