2 votes

Rand Paul's views on Russian sanctions should be cause for alarm.

So I recently was able to ask Rand (at an San Francisco) event this week about his most recent statements in an op-ed he wrote for Time in support of economic and visa sanctions on Russia and how he was advocating activating the missile defense shield apparatus back in Poland and in the Czech which Obama closed down.

link to op-ed --- http://time.com/17648/sen-rand-paul-u-s-must-take-strong-act...

Rand Quote from Time article:

"I recommend a number of specific and decisive measures to punish Putin for his ongoing aggression.

Economic sanctions and visa bans should be imposed and enforced without delay. I would urge our European allies to leverage their considerable weight with Russia and take the lead on imposing these penalties. I would do everything in my power to aggressively market and export America’s vast natural gas resources to Europe. "

"I would reinstitute the missile-defense shields President Obama abandoned in 2009 in Poland and the Czech Republic, only this time, I would make sure the Europeans pay for it."

Don't punish the people of Russia when it is the politicians who are at fault.

I initially prefaced it with my concerns as well as the Liberty movement's concerns regarding his vote for economic sanctions on Iran. I asked him if he felt that sanctions could potentially cause unintended consequences such as blow-back and increased hatred for the United States much like occupation and preemptive war does. He was walking to his car so I had to walk and talk so I felt he wasn't pressured into giving the most sincere answer. I wish he would have given me a straight answer but instead gave the biggest politicians answer I have ever heard....in fact it was so much so that I walked away saying to myself...

"What the hell did he just say? Was that English?".

And the worst part of it was that he had done this runaround multiple times during a private event with ONLY LIBERTY activists in attendance who asked other pressing questions.

His answer was one of a politician..not an answer by a principled statesmen.

Yes he is not his father but I sure damn will not turn a blind eye to the fact that Rand is questionable in his philosophies and beliefs of what liberty is all about.

I am very aware of the possibility that he is using a more pragmatic and political strategy to make liberty more appealing to the masses but what I fear is he is sacrificing the principles of liberty to gain political office. We don't need another politician to be president-we need someone who wants liberty and freedom to thrive.

We all came here because of the amazingly honest and straightforwardness that Ron Paul had as a statesmen. He mattered not what others thought. What was important to him was promoting the cause of liberty. To him the idea of any form of sanctions are an act of war. Recently during an interview with The Guardian, Dr. Ron Paul even came out unequivocally opposing the Obama administration or of other's move to place sanctions yet again upon another nation.

link to guardian article --- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ron-paul-crimea...

from the Guardian article:

The former Republican congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul has launched a scathing attack on what he calls a US-backed coup in Ukraine, insisting the Crimean people have the right to align their territory with Moscow and characterizing sanctions against Russia as “an act of war”.

He also said providing economic aid to Ukraine was comparable to giving support to rebels in Syria knowing it would end up in the hands of al-Qaida.

The libertarian guru’s remarks in an interview with the Guardian are almost diametrically opposed to those of his son, the Republican presidential hopeful Rand Paul, who has called for stiff penalties against Russia and declared: “If I were president, I wouldn’t let [Russian president] Vladimir Putin get away with it.”

This political game that Rand is playing is a destructive one--one that will lead him astray from the liberty movement and in the arena of panderers and vote-getters.

No matter what his intentions are I have a strong feeling he will loose of lot of his fathers supporters do to his political jargon that drips from his mouth when he gives answers in contrast to his father Ron who will give you a straight answer.

We must secure the future of liberty and something we must do as lovers of liberty is to hold these politicians accountable. If they claim to be lovers of liberty we must hold them to it and make sure they adhere to things like the non-aggression principle,(non-interventionism---as Ron would say) and unabridged peace and commerce with all.

So with such uncertainty that has been expressed also shines a dim light of hope and belief that Rand, with the help from his father, are trying to take this Libety movement to a whole new level and make liberty appealing as possible with a whole new range of avenues to take it.

It has been said that the best leaders are those that do not desire to lead...lets hope Rand doesn't want to lead, but rather to allow us to lead our own lives as we see fit should he seek the presidency.



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Indeed

http://www.dailypaul.com/314846/here-are-rands-so-called-san...

From his rhetoric alone, I would not support or trust Rand. But based on what he seems to be actually doing behind it, I do, and having witnessed Ron Paul's attempts as an alternate delegate who was kicked from the Republican party for vaguely libertarian facebook posts, I understand the position Rand is in.

thanks

but the elder paul strongly disagrees with all of rand's ideas on this subject, and he hasn't stayed quiet about it. if i feel a politician isn't being honest (and most aren't) then i have no interest in throwing my support or money their way. i especially become irked when they talk out both sides of their mouth. i know, that's politics. i'm with ron who has said a few times he doesn't even like politics, but he's all about spreading the freedom message.

We should charge Europe and all of the others we defend

God knows we spent trillions in the middle east defending Far East and European oil but then again we have the reserve currency which is a scheme on all nations that deal in Dollars..

Government is supposed to protect our freedom, our property, our privacy, not invade it. Ron Paul 2007

I suppose that would be better than what

We're doing.Then we'd have a paper trail. But pimping our military out isn't right. Actually we're already doing that but the cash is going to unknown pockets, from unknown pockets.

Name me one person

who has won a presidential election without playing politics? How did that work for Ron? Rand will not get the nomination without pandering to the party rhetoric. There is a fine line between keeping the liberty movement together and getting elected. Rand is doing what is necessary to get elected. I trust he will be more like his father if elected. What are the other choices, Jeb, Chris, Rick, Mitt, etc. I'll take Rand in a heartbeat.

What if Rand doesn't change>>

After elected! What if Rand doesn't change. Yes he's a better choice then the others mentioned but isn't Rand also being dishonest in his position with the public if he's saying these things just to get an in to be liked and accepted. I don't plan to vote for him. I may vote democrat depending on who else may enter the presidential race, it's so early to know yet. Rand seems to lack real courage.

If you are waiting for the second coming of

Ron Paul you are going to be very disappointed. Rand is as close as you are going to get for now. Rand Paul at his current position is still head and shoulder above everybody else.

If I were still a statist i'd

If I were still a statist i'd try to get Amash in over Rand. He's the closest to Ron Paul that we have now. So you are incorrect. You very much sound like the Romney supporters saying that well, Romney is the lesser of 2 evils.... Great logic.. Keep voting and enjoy your game.

Amash talks more like

Ron Paul then anyone but look what the party is trying to do to him. This is a game and you have to play the game to win. That does not mean you have to play the game once you are president. I was a delegate at the Indiana State Convention for Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012.The party shut us down both times and treated us like dirt. Amash may some day be President but not until somebody gets in who plays the game and changes the game once they are elected. I would guess you were never a delegate for Ron Paul or you might look at the problem a little differently.

I wasn't able to become a

I wasn't able to become a delegate, no. But that doesn't mean I didn't see what happened. I am well aware of how they cheated Ron Paul out the nomination and delegates. It's why I will not play the game. Their game, their rules. They can have it.

They just can't have my consent or my natural rights.

Thomas Massie is closer to

Thomas Massie is closer to Ron Paul, from the votes I have seen. But Amash is pretty great too.

Yeah, Massie is pretty close

Yeah, Massie is pretty close too.

Troll Alert

"I may vote democrat"

What???

Ron Paul: Democratic Party, GOP Are Both 'Dinosaurs'

but clint seems to think that if you even consider voting for one dinosaur over another (we don't even know who the candidates are yet!) you must be a troll. it's rare to find a ron paul supporter engage in such either/or thinking, but i guess it takes all types. there is really one big party,(isn't this common knowledge?) but they have certainly manipulated a lot of people into believing there's some big difference. what would that be? against aggressive foreign policy? no. against the police state? no. against spending spending and more spending? no, no no.

My favorite stalker

That's the point. That's why we are engaged in a civil war in the Republican Party to take it over, as was the plan set forth by Ron Paul himself. You seem to forget that. It is his plan we are fulfilling. Do you have a better plan?.. Because I would love to hear it.

To say that someone on this site who believes in Liberty would even think about voting democrat is a tell tale sign of a government infiltrator here to sow the seeds of discontent and division. The rank and file democrats are the soldiers for the big government elitists. They love and want more government.

when young people

ask ron paul what they can do for liberty he always says: do what you want, what appeals to you. he never says: try and take over the GOP. do you not think some progressives are trying to influence their party too? kucinich and nader are both good friends of ron paul's and have worked with him on issues. it's too bad the either/or philosophy is so deeply embedded in your way of thinking, but believe me the state loves people who think like that.

stalker? there's that ego again. LOL.
here's a much better way to spend your time.
http://www.dailypaul.com/315038/molyneux-roberts-ww3-america...

Surely you jest

This entire movement since 2007 has been about taking over local, state and federal Republican Caucuses. This is what the Tea Party was born out of. We've had tremendous success since then. More than I ever could've imagined.

Ron consistently discusses the fruitless nature of a third party politics and advocates influencing politics from within the Republican Party as he did (quite well i might add). In the Republican Party there is sympathy for our philosophy. In the Democrat Party, there is none. This is our only chance and Ron has been quite clear on that point.

The "either or" you speak of is not one of political party. It is of liberty or tyranny. This is our last, best chance of peacefully impacting the direction of our country. And it's not by electing republicans or democrats. It's about electing liberty minded candidates within the republican party. The democrats are too far gone to try and use them as a conduit to influence the masses. They are Statists through and through. They despise the constitution and the founders. Some may flip, as I did, but on the whole they are a lost cause of government collectivist organizations (i.e. blacks, hispanics, feminists, LGBTs, etc.).

You forget...

There were Ron Paul Democrats in 2008. B.J. Lawson for one. Please don't expect individualists to behave like a collective. Not all of us will follow the same master plan. I still think the real secret is getting that gigantic number of Americans who don't bother to vote at all to feel they have a reason to get up off the couch. The only guy with the proven ability to do that is Jesse Ventura, not Rand.

Mind you, I don't hate Rand, but I do have my doubts. If the GOP isn't arresting delegates and shutting down conventions to stop him, then I start really worrying about what kind of deals he's been making. Maybe he's just playing political semantic games. I hope so, although it makes me cringe every time...

have you forgotten

how the GOP treated Ron Paul? changing the rules at the last minute so he couldn't be nominated? the GOP is a criminal organization. as ron paul said so many times, the 2 parties and the prez election is one big charade. the establishment always wins.

check out my new post. you might learn something. oh wait i forgot you know everything.
http://www.dailypaul.com/315081/abby-martin-interviews-paul-...

I haven't forgotten

That is no reason to stop trying. Look at the successes we have had. Amash, Rand , Cruz, Lee. These guys have had an impact, yet none are perfect. If the anarchists would stop trying to tear down Rand every chance they get, who knows how far we can go. We still need many more liberty minded to people to run. They are scared of us and we can defeat them. McCain and Graham are jokes at this point. The old guard won't last much longer.

now

you speak for all anarchists?

my guess is that the scandalous treatment of ron paul and his delegates (rand claimed he was unaware of any bad treatment of his dad and his supporters at the RNC ha ha) has made a huge number of political atheists. after all, all types of people were drawn to him and his ideas, who had no previous interest in politics. you cannot defeat people who will do anything to keep their power. if the changing of the rules at the RNC didn't convince you nothing will. still i applaud the work of the men you listed, since the spreading of the message by whatever means possible is paramount.

Oh the big bad GOP.

how the GOP treated Ron Paul? you mean how they also treated every Ron Paul supporter in America and every freedom loving individual across the globe, many where watching that BATTLE for the Republican party, hoping freedom would prevail, but alas, It didn't, we where hurt, We lost the battle, but we will win the war!

Which has been, like Clint pointed out, the goal since the beginning, educating as many as possible, and then putting that understanding and effort into taking over the one and only vessel that can reignite the fires of liberty in the minds of men en masse, there really is no other *peaceful* way to spread the message quicker.

You know it wasn't always the big bad GOP, and it doesn't have to be. Many in the Gop are open to libertarian ideas now, thanks to what has taken place over the last 7 years. Its not the GOP that has power, its the people that make the GOP, and we are (The liberterians) changing the minds of those people, and becoming those people within the GOP that will steer the ship

You don't get beat the first time and give up do you? Has anyone who has ever accomplished anything ever done that? I think not, you get back up and keep on going.

They may have won that battle, but they Will not win the war!

There is a better way. Non

There is a better way. Non compliance and defiance. Just walk away from the machine completely.... Don't keep feeding it hoping it will change.

i wish you luck

but i stand with lew rockwell who said -trying to change the GOP is like trying to change the corleone family.

i am however 100% for spreading the libertarian message of ron paul, it's a long term goal and has nothing to do with giving up.

ps: the big bad GOP is just another wing of the big bad Democratic party. they all know it, but they sure have the people fooled.

this is it people.... join, or die.

"This is our last, best chance of peacefully impacting the direction of our country."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Benjamin_Franklin_-_Join_or_Die.jpg/640px-Benjamin_Franklin_-_Join_or_Die.jpg

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

oh, all right, Puff Daddy


http://youtu.be/Vjbi1GjesXM

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

amen DBJ

I concur

Government is supposed to protect our freedom, our property, our privacy, not invade it. Ron Paul 2007

Name me one president that

Name me one president that changed traditional policy? Or better yet name me one president that ended a war?

Ron Paul started a revolution... I think that was enough :)

Only one? OK...

George Washington.

Starting a 'revolution' is not enough... Finishing it, is...

That's what Rand and many other Liberty candidates around the country are trying to do.

Developing America's energy resources and making Europe pay for their own defense is completely consistent with Ron Paul's principles.
As for putting a hold on Russian visas, that's not a bad idea. I think there are enough Russian troops and sleeper cells here already.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?