2 votes

Rand Paul's views on Russian sanctions should be cause for alarm.

So I recently was able to ask Rand (at an San Francisco) event this week about his most recent statements in an op-ed he wrote for Time in support of economic and visa sanctions on Russia and how he was advocating activating the missile defense shield apparatus back in Poland and in the Czech which Obama closed down.

link to op-ed --- http://time.com/17648/sen-rand-paul-u-s-must-take-strong-act...

Rand Quote from Time article:

"I recommend a number of specific and decisive measures to punish Putin for his ongoing aggression.

Economic sanctions and visa bans should be imposed and enforced without delay. I would urge our European allies to leverage their considerable weight with Russia and take the lead on imposing these penalties. I would do everything in my power to aggressively market and export America’s vast natural gas resources to Europe. "

"I would reinstitute the missile-defense shields President Obama abandoned in 2009 in Poland and the Czech Republic, only this time, I would make sure the Europeans pay for it."

Don't punish the people of Russia when it is the politicians who are at fault.

I initially prefaced it with my concerns as well as the Liberty movement's concerns regarding his vote for economic sanctions on Iran. I asked him if he felt that sanctions could potentially cause unintended consequences such as blow-back and increased hatred for the United States much like occupation and preemptive war does. He was walking to his car so I had to walk and talk so I felt he wasn't pressured into giving the most sincere answer. I wish he would have given me a straight answer but instead gave the biggest politicians answer I have ever heard....in fact it was so much so that I walked away saying to myself...

"What the hell did he just say? Was that English?".

And the worst part of it was that he had done this runaround multiple times during a private event with ONLY LIBERTY activists in attendance who asked other pressing questions.

His answer was one of a politician..not an answer by a principled statesmen.

Yes he is not his father but I sure damn will not turn a blind eye to the fact that Rand is questionable in his philosophies and beliefs of what liberty is all about.

I am very aware of the possibility that he is using a more pragmatic and political strategy to make liberty more appealing to the masses but what I fear is he is sacrificing the principles of liberty to gain political office. We don't need another politician to be president-we need someone who wants liberty and freedom to thrive.

We all came here because of the amazingly honest and straightforwardness that Ron Paul had as a statesmen. He mattered not what others thought. What was important to him was promoting the cause of liberty. To him the idea of any form of sanctions are an act of war. Recently during an interview with The Guardian, Dr. Ron Paul even came out unequivocally opposing the Obama administration or of other's move to place sanctions yet again upon another nation.

link to guardian article --- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ron-paul-crimea...

from the Guardian article:

The former Republican congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul has launched a scathing attack on what he calls a US-backed coup in Ukraine, insisting the Crimean people have the right to align their territory with Moscow and characterizing sanctions against Russia as “an act of war”.

He also said providing economic aid to Ukraine was comparable to giving support to rebels in Syria knowing it would end up in the hands of al-Qaida.

The libertarian guru’s remarks in an interview with the Guardian are almost diametrically opposed to those of his son, the Republican presidential hopeful Rand Paul, who has called for stiff penalties against Russia and declared: “If I were president, I wouldn’t let [Russian president] Vladimir Putin get away with it.”

This political game that Rand is playing is a destructive one--one that will lead him astray from the liberty movement and in the arena of panderers and vote-getters.

No matter what his intentions are I have a strong feeling he will loose of lot of his fathers supporters do to his political jargon that drips from his mouth when he gives answers in contrast to his father Ron who will give you a straight answer.

We must secure the future of liberty and something we must do as lovers of liberty is to hold these politicians accountable. If they claim to be lovers of liberty we must hold them to it and make sure they adhere to things like the non-aggression principle,(non-interventionism---as Ron would say) and unabridged peace and commerce with all.

So with such uncertainty that has been expressed also shines a dim light of hope and belief that Rand, with the help from his father, are trying to take this Libety movement to a whole new level and make liberty appealing as possible with a whole new range of avenues to take it.

It has been said that the best leaders are those that do not desire to lead...lets hope Rand doesn't want to lead, but rather to allow us to lead our own lives as we see fit should he seek the presidency.



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I don't mean the get a long

I don't mean the get a long to go along fake revolution that some of you are following. I meant the voluntaryism movement. Getting away from government completely. He is the one that started that movement by teaching us what voluntaryism was about. Now we the people take the next step, not your god like leaders... Rand and the other guys are not going to lead me anywhere. Ron Paul taught us to take our own paths and to lead ourselves. I'm doing just that and so are many many other people right now.

Whatever revolution you're pretending you're part of...

...but really just doing nothing but telling others on the internet NOT to Vote... The point of my comment is that it is not good enough to just START the revolution (which should include more than just doing nothing and calling it 'voluntaryism'...which isn't even the correct term it's 'voluntarism') but imperative that you FINISH!

Now answer me this, if you're all about "removing yourself from the system completely" and you are opposed to voting, and all about 'voluntarism' where I make my own decisions, then why are you even on here trying to sway my political actions... and then you vote by down-voting my post?

Maybe I can help you see why your idea won't work, more clearly...

There was a saying in the 60's...

"What if they gave a War, and no one showed up?"

But in reality, one side does show up. Always will. Most of history is one side showing up, and the other side practicing 'voluntaryism', i.e- doing nothing, i.e.- not showing up... and they get rolled.

In 2012 the Ron Paul campaign put the fear of G-d into the RNC, GOP, DNC, MSM, DEA, IRS, CIA, DIA, EPA, FBI, DOD, MIC, KEY, MOUSE, and just about every other combination of 3 letters in the English alphabet imaginable. They screwed us royally, and blatantly, but with Romney's loss, and all of Ron's message being proven right in the hindsight of the last two years that the sheeple have been able to see for themselves, the GOP base, as well as even the mainstream to some degree has moved towards libertarianism.

Now his son, a Senator, has even more juice and "credibility" among the mainstreamers and you want us to give up for some pipe dream of 'everyone just getting along' all-of-a-sudden?!

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Wrong... The term is

Wrong... The term is 'voluntaryism'. It is a libertarian philosophy term meaning, "all forms of human association should be voluntary". What Ron Paul has said for a long time.

People like me aren't just on the internet telling people to not vote... You're the type of person doing that(telling people to give money and vote for your newly chosen leader). I'm just showing the hypocrisy in a statist logic.

Btw I never down voted anything.... That is the people, not me. I don't even care if i'm down voted, so why would I care to down vote you? The plus/negative votes are useless to me.

Yup, they did screw us bad... I remember it perfectly and that is why I am opposed to trying a failed strategy once again.. It will never work. The system is built to be a plutocracy and to work against the common man. The only reason Rand even has a slight chance is because he plays ball and has caved just like the rest. Maybe not as much as the rest, but he's still given in. He knows damn well he can't stop what has been put in place for centuries and he knows that people like you still think he can.. If you're talking about the 60's just look at what happened to the the president that attempted to play with the power of the state. Shot in the head in broad daylight in front of everybody.

Ron Paul planted seeds in millions of peoples heads. He started the conversations at their dinner tables about what freedom really is. He did that, not his son. He had independents, democrats, republicans and all apathetic non voters ready to go to the booths for him, but they took it away... Because they own that system. It is not ours. it has never been ours. There is no such thing as the constitution. It is an illusion.

Only way you beat them is to stop playing their game and walk away.

No one said to stop what you're doing. You'll see when that campaign either fails or when he goes to office and pulls an Obama that what I and many others have said is true...

You do that and we'll continue creating new ways without government like alternative currencies, printable items, self sustainable gardens, alternate sources of energy, community projects etc etc

We'll see who gets farther in the long run.

you will get crushed in the long run if

you give up now.
the fastest most peaceful way to a voluntarist society starts with rand paul 2016. the reason is because you need to wake as many people up as possible as fast as possible or we're all dead.
first you need rand on the big stage preaching the freedom philosophy for at least four years and most likely 8 years. after that the people may be ready to accept a kokesh type that would further ratchet things down to the state level and from there eventually to the individual level.
to win in the long run we need a spiritual and intellectual/philosophical awaking to occur on a mass scale. sure, be agorist and do all the other things you said but only doing that will not save us.

that's the voluntaryist blueprint to freedom. if we follow that then hopefully one day this quote will not ring true but for now it does...

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

I agree with you that it

I agree with you that it might be an easier method to start with, but it isn't the best and most likely won't happen... You feed the machine and it still lives. You know what will happen? They will throw us a few bones just to keep the masses from rioting. Just like they did in 2001...

Oh you want marijuana? Oh you want the illusion of choice? Here ya go, now go be an obedient robot....

The ones in charge have perfected this game.. That's what people don't understand. There is a reason they are able to trick people into believing they need to be governed. They are a step ahead at all times.

We have the technology to live our everyday lives without government, so why not act on that? The way you're saying we could build the intellectual awaking through Rand on stage can be sped up by us showing that life without government is feasible, or better yet morally right. We just need to keep building this base. Go talk to the children of this generation, the internet generation. Most know that what the government does is wrong, they know the truth, so we are fine in the long run. I trust in humanity and i'm optimistic because of our youth.. But for now, it is up to us to start creating the alternatives. There will be a philosophical revolution I have absolutely no doubt about it.

I wish I was wrong, and your way would work, I really do... I just know history and it isn't on you guy's side.

not just easier but the most practical,

the most peaceful and the fastest way. giving up now is suicide. the way i see it is that we got one last chance to make this happen peacefully. if peace is what you want you better pray that rand gets the nom and wins. if not it's not gonna be pretty and they are not going to leave you alone to be agorist and do as you please. they will keep passing laws and regulations until we are forced to respond to their initiation of force in a ugly way.

i'm not saying not to do your own thing and come up with non state solutions to problems but if that's all you do you will eventually lose because that alone won't wake people up on the scale and time frame needed to win.

this is it for me if rand does not win. i will retreat and put all my energy into fighting at the state level or simply retire deep into the woods.
i seem to be stuck in the middle of two types of people, those who want to give up and get lost in some utopian fantasy where everything will be alright if we just wish it so and those who are ready to give up now and crawl into the doom and gloom bunker.
i stay cautiously optimistic.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

I'm not giving up. I'm going

I'm not giving up. I'm going in the direction of the original message. The peaceful way is to just walk away. They don't have the full support of the military anymore and i'm 100% certain that if they were given orders tomorrow that they needed to round us all up, half of them would refuse right there.

I see doing the same thing over and over with the same results as insanity. I'm not retreating anywhere and i'm not hiding anywhere. You should have been prepped and ready for anything after everything we have found out about this government.

What wakes people up are feasible options, like bitcoin or cell phones with no tracking devices in them. More people are on the internet than ever, word gets around fast about these types of things through social media sites. Most people are apathetic and know that there is corruption up top and they want no part of it. It's easier to just get people away from it then in it. And IF/when they come with guns they automatically lose.

His message and ultimate goal

His message and ultimate goal is and has always been very clear.

Rand

is continuing his fathers work to take back the Republican party. To accomplish that feat you must not look to threatening to the Neocons. You are right that no president has gotten in office and changed their policy but first you have to get elected and a Ron Paul like person will not get elected as the nominee by the party. You have to play the game to get elected. Anybody who was a delegate for Ron Paul at any of the conventions saw how the game is played. Rand understands the game, do you? Nixon stopped the vietnam war and Truman stopped ww2 but that did not mean they were Liberty minded presidents.

You really think that was his

You really think that was his ultimate goal?? To try to infiltrate some corrupt gang? I think not. He said it himself that his whole campaign was about spreading the message, not winning some political game.

No, a movement of normal everyday citizens stopped the vietnam war and ww2. If nobody said anything or protested then Nixon nor Truman would have stopped anything. You know this...

To me

I joined a rEVOLution, and it was NOT easy because that rEVOLution DEMANDED one join the GOP and become delegates (no small feat for me) to get Ron Paul the nomination. While we went into the GOP, those who refused, took Ron Paul's message for their own agendas.. so there are many agendas that call themselves "Liberty Movement".

The Liberty Movement is going to do what the strongest message is among it's self appointed members and leaders.

What happens when Ron Paul endorses Rand?

I think that is going to be the end of the Liberty Movement because too many don't like Rand and as the world turns, new events and issues take shape, they will go there angry that Ron Paul endorsed Rand. Ron is going to endorse Rand for president. What are you going to do?

Michael Nystrom's picture

When Ron Paul endorses Rand, it will be as irrelevant

to me as when he endorsed Ted Cruz.
www.dailypaul.com/232347/

I'll do my thinking for myself, thanks.

I don't understand why otherwise free thinking individuals think it is okay to turn off their brains when it comes to Ron Paul.

He's the man.

Or when Rand endorsed Romney

Or when Rand endorsed Romney ; )

I agree

I think that otherwise free thinking individuals refer to Ron Paul's endorsements because many of us would not be where we are, not that I and others don't think for ourselves (afterall we do not all agree in the GOP rEVOlution), I admit, thinking of joining the GOP was not an original idea.. seems no sooner did I join the GOP and the Liberty Movement evolved by those who didn't join.

So it's interesting to what Ron Paul says and who he endorses because he won't be the nominee in the GOP, where he left many of us. I have no regrets joining because it's been one of the best political educations in my life.

I can't imagine Ron Paul not backing Rand. It's very interesting to see why people think Ron will endorse another Republican, because he remains a Republican.

Simply a question...

Do YOU know you are a pompous crazy person? ...or is it just all of us?

Honestly, it's more of a rhetorical question but feel free to prove my point by responding with whatever emotional, unsubstantiated drivel your medication pushes out of your brain today.

I support Rand but the more you talk the more I don't want to be associated with anything you are involved in.

If you really want Rand to win, and people to join the GoP... stop posting. You aren't helping.

Why Michael Nystrom has decided to keep you as a pet I'll never know. A lot of posters who brought much more to the table weren't given half as many chances as you.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

No

No I didn't know that you were elected to speak for DP about the general feeling of this community about me. Thank you for stepping up. Because I'm not focused on projecting anything other than thoughts and ideas I was clueless, and to be honest, I am very clueless about the DP collective that elected you.

Somehow I thought DP was an assortment of individuals who have an interest in liberty and freedom of experession and exploring ideas not being aired on MSM. Am I wrong?

I could careless if you support rand or not. I'm not here to sell you rand. I'm not here to sell you anything.

I really wanted Ron to win. I don't think Rand needs my help, he's doing great. I don't believe the GOP is for everyone and most here are not suited for the GOP. I'm not a recruiter for the GOP.

I just upvoted The Granger

..

They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds. -mexican proverb

A civil question to you, Granger:

Is it possible that Rand is saying certain things that he necessarily doesn't believe to appease NeoCons and obtain a majority of support from all Republicans?

We've been discussing this for awhile and I don't believe there is any need for division among DP'ers when you say things like, "Ron is going to endorse Rand for President. What are you going to do?."

It's kind of like you're drawing a line in the sand among the Daily Paul. But why?

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

A civil answer to you, MikeTheVet

Anything is possible; however, it's highly unlikely because Rand is not giving sound bites, but solutions, or alternatives to the Neocons addictions to industrial complexes that the US can no longer afford, thanks to our investment in the UN Agenda that depends on the industrial complexes, that work for those invested in the industrial complexes, as the neocons are. I don't know any neocons celebrating Rand's proposal to have "economic freedom zones", for example. They don't talk about Rand. They push other candidates.

What is this sand and what is this line you speak of?

Because you bring up the opposition points

instead of the common ground among DP'ers.

When you say things like, "Ron will endorse Rand. What are you going to do?" you're putting the "Rand vs Ron" at center stage.

Like your asking two sides to fight with each other.

The media calls this "Divide et Impera" and it's worked for a long time. I'm not saying that's what you're trying to do, I'm just asking you why do you need to bring up that situation considering Ron and Rand aren't facing off to be the Republican candidate for a 2016 run.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

Ron Paul said

"I agree with Rand 99% and anyone who tries to divide me and Rand is a wedgedriver."

I'd say Ron is going to endorse Rand based on that quote.

Why not disagree with me and say why, or agree to disagree with me, but to "call me out".. because I ask, based on what Ron Paul said.. and no I don't have to repeat what Ron Paul said about he being with Rand 99%. I can't imagine Ron not backing Rand if Rand was to run for president.

I guess for those who grudges and spite makes perfect sense for Ron to not support his son.. but the little I know of the Paul family.. looks to me,, Ron is going to backing Rand with everything he's got.

Just another scumbag liar and

Just another scumbag liar and neocon.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

I'm usually a non-interventionist, but not in this case

Russia is a superpower...period. Ukraine has no oil thus we could care less and slap Putin's hands with the silliest sanctions ever.

However if Ukraine is allowed to fall, then Estonia, Lithuania, Poland will too. I'm not scared to use our military to stop an unchecked superpower. If the people of Ukraine want no part of Russia, then they should be allowed to live free and if they need our help for defense then we should give it.

Will we send money we don't have, yep, but at least we can offset that by getting out of Afghanistan, Iraq and almost the entire Mideast.

There are times when you need to have a show of force, not very many, but this is one of them. Russia has some limited rights to Crimea from long ago, the same as they have for Alaska which they say is only lease not a sale to the United States.

Isn't that the

Vietnam argument?

"Ukraine has no oil [...]"

That's not what I've been reading, Sir. All do respect:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ukraine's+oil+and+gas+map&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ClcsU7erGsfxkQevm4DQBA&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=596&bih=893

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

In addition...

It's not necessarily just about the resources, but control or lack there of, of delivery. Also, the anti-EU, UK Ukraines that do not want to join the EU.

Did you read his op ed?

Its been broken down by others so I won't do it again. Pay close attention.

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yes i did...and just because

yes i did...and just because some people have broken it down does not mean they are correct in their analysis....so you too pay close attention.

did you read it? hahahaha.

- Brennan

BUMP...

The Paul's are playing 3D Chess while the progressives are playing Checkers on the back of a Horse!