25 votes

Relatively new members supporting authoritarian regimes on Daily Paul

Recently it has disturbed me to see relatively new members express support for authoritarian regimes on the Daily Paul. Here is what I believe.

1. Freedom is good and authoritarianism is bad not only in the USA but also overseas.
2. The best way to inspire freedom around the world is to increase freedom and prosperity in the USA so that others will want to emulate us.
3. Interventionism undermines our own freedom and prosperity and reduces our nation's credibility as a beacon of freedom.
4. We don't have to support authoritarian leaders in order to justify non-interventionism.
5. Authoritarian regimes eventually will rot from the inside and fall apart if free alternatives exist elsewhere.

I am not am advocating censorship, but I do not see how those who legitimize authoritarian regimes are promoting a message of freedom.

Thoughts?

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Let's Review the Record...

Discussion is different from "support" and folks should think about that in light of Obama's recent executive order on Uktraine. It's unconscionable that he would declare a "state of emergency" here in the US over events so far away and so unrelated to our country. Anyway, President John Quincy Adams summed up the American approach to American "values" vis-a-vis foreign events quite well back in 1824. It's worth a read:

America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.... – US President John Quincy Adams, 1824

Prophetic

and ironic. Such vision.

But about myself I will not boast, except as it concerns my weaknesses (2 Cor 12:5). Let the unbelievers seek praise from each other; I wish that which is from God alone.

But you pay taxes to one!

Just sayin,,,

NOSHEEPLE

I have never seen hagiography Obama or Bush on the Daily Paul

I have never seen hagiography about Obama or Bush on the Daily Paul. Have you? If anyone tried posting it here, then they would be confronted.

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

What??

You think my post on Vladimir Putin being a great leader is equivalent to "supporting authoritarian regimes?"

No, no, no. WE are living under an authoritarian regime. It is nothing like this in Russia right now. Putin's approval rating is through the roof! (By the way, the Crimeans voted to join Russia and the Crimea has been de facto Russian territory almost since the U.S. has been a nation).

In case you hadn't looked into it, Russia under Putin has done an about-face. This is not your grandfather's Russia. Please read:

http://thebilzerianreport.com/is-vladimir-putin-the-greatest...

John F

Did the vote take place

Did the vote take place before or after Russian troops arrived?
Hitler also used "votes" to ratify his actions. When you have the troops watching the election and you control the media to tell the electorate how to vote its easy to get the desired result. I'm not defending Obama's policies but Putin is no lover of democracy either.

C'mon Bob.

These people that live in Crimea are all Russians. They didn't need to control anything. Don't you know about this?

John F

the Austrians wanted Hitler

the Austrians wanted Hitler and the Crimeans wanted Putin. Get over it.

What precisely are you refering to?

Just curious.

Please see my responses below

Please see my responses below to Michael Nystrom's question.

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

You mean like most Americans?

Anyone who has voted for a Republican or Democrat for federal office in the last 30 years supports an authoritarian regime with very few exceptions. Not only authoritarianism, but genocide, murder, and war for the pure selfish interest of the regime.

That's authoritarian!

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Right on, Mohusk!!!!!

This is the kind of thinking that originally drew me to the DP. Sad to see that it is starting to take on some of that groupthink you're-not-in-the-club GOP mentality. I have been away for a while and was not expecting that.

John F

Michael Nystrom's picture

Who?

What! Where?!

I can't say that I've seen it, but then, I don't see everything, either.

It's your website and your

It's your website and your call, Mike.

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

And some of the comments here

http://www.dailypaul.com/315592/video-putin-laughs-in-journa...

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

And some of the comments here

http://www.dailypaul.com/314495/if-we-could-non-intervention...

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

Here

http://www.dailypaul.com/315594/vladimir-putin-is-one-of-the...

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

"It is futile to fight

"It is futile to fight against, if one does not know what one is fighting for." Ayn Rand

I recently watched a video that really embodies the Freedom move

Perhaps everyone already knows about it.
To me it is very enlightening the first part is about
Ancient technology a free energy but the end is about the Ubuntu movement. I found it very interesting it even includes South Africa
got there federal reserve in guess what year, your right 1913,
The same we did Please watch it and let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcD1h9DYitg

Here are some things they believe.

We, the people, have appointed the government to act as our servant and to do the best for the people at all times. But our government has failed us dramatically on every level. The South African economy and natural resources have been plundered by greedy international corporations, supported by ignorant politicians, with no remorse or any accountability to its people.

We can no longer travel freely in our own land – our roads have been sold to foreign corporations. Our economy has been hijacked by international banksters who have been granted complete freedom to financially cripple every South African. Their interests are protected by a complex legal system which does NOT serve the people. Under our laws, corporations have more rights than living breathing human beings. The government has turned the people into its slaves.

The UBUNTU Philosophy - The Rights of All People
1. The country belongs to its people
2. The land belongs to the people
3. The roads and railways belong to the people
4. The water, the rivers, the lakes, and oceans belong to the people
5. The forests, the mountains, the skies above belong to the people
6. The airwaves belong to the people
7. The minerals in the ground belong to the people
These do not belong to the government
or any other corporation that has unlawfully laid claim to it.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS STOLEN THE COUNTRY FROM ITS PEOPLE

Hey Mac

Nothing belongs to 'the people'.

This isn't a glib point.

This isn't a 'barbarian libertarian' point.

This is a fundamental ethical and economic point.

As soon as you endorse asymmetrical ethics, which is exactly what all collectivist notions like 'the people' own things, you are embracing evil.

Theft is wrong. It does not become right when it is for 'the greater good'.

'The people' do not own anything.

Ever.

Banksters stole the wealth of generations. For generations.

They did.

The do.

If we win, unlikely as it is, we must walk away.

If we create institutions to exact some sort of 'collective justice'.. they will use their wealth to control those institutions.

Power is a trick those with power use to destroy us.

If we can win, we need to walk away.

You're playing my song

er, Macdonough's Song, that is. By Rudyard Kipling

Whether the State can loose and bind
In Heaven as well as on Earth:
If it be wiser to kill mankind
Before or after the birth--
These are matters of high concern
Where State-kept schoolmen are;
But Holy State (we have lived to learn)
Endeth in Holy War.

Whether The People be led by The Lord,
Or lured by the loudest throat:
If it be quicker to die by the sword
Or cheaper to die by vote--
These are things we have dealt with once,
(And they will not rise from their grave)
For Holy People, however it runs,
Endeth in wholly Slave.

Whatsoever, for any cause,
Seeketh to take or give
Power above or beyond the Laws,
Suffer it not to live!
Holy State or Holy King--
Or Holy People's Will--
Have no truck with the senseless thing.
Order the guns and kill!
Saying --after--me:--

Once there was The People--Terror gave it birth;
Once there was The People and it made a Hell of Earth
Earth arose and crushed it. Listen, 0 ye slain!
Once there was The People--it shall never be again!

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

they may be no real...

...but rather moles. They are paid for by our tax dollars to influence us. Turning us off any meeting place where people get organized enough to threaten the government as is...

Gerald Mangold

Where do they get their inspiration?

Check out this article by Weigal in (ahem) Slate

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/03/26/ron_paul_s_thin...

McCobin is convincing no one in the Paul think tank. He's actually fitting snugly into the role of a naive Paul-hater, one of the type that Paul denounces in a new fundraising letter.

"This week, arch-neocon Bill Kristol unleashed his attack dogs against my Institute for Peace and Prosperity. Our dozens of media appearances and hundreds of articles opposing their plan for war with Russia over Ukraine is just too much for them. This week, in the Daily Beast and in Kristol’s own Washington Free Beacon, a coordinated attack has been launched to defame, discredit, and silence my Institute.

Why? Because the American people are hearing our message, and by an increasing majority they oppose US intervention in Ukraine – and everywhere else the neocons want to bomb. My op-ed this week in USA Today, the nation’s largest circulation newspaper, was highlighted on the hugely popular Drudge Report. Our ideas are getting even more traction – and they cannot stand that. So they are using their enormous resources to try to silence our message of peace and prosperity.

We want engagement and diplomacy; they want sanctions and war. We may not have nearly the resources of the war party, but the good news is that we can do much more with so much less because we work harder and we have the truth on our side!"

Notice Ron Paul says: "Our side!"

And notice the article in progressive programmer Slate is about the "rift", within the Libertarian Movement.

The "rift" in my opinion is, Ron Paul is brilliant.. brilliant strategist (So is Rand) When this "rEVOLution" started (Which my 7 year birthday on DP should be about now) Bush was president and anti-war was about ending Bush-preemptive war, which many thought Obama would do. Ron Paul's message may be the same, but the world turns.. so the message has new applications.

I had made dozens of huge Ron Paul rEVOLution banners and posted them so when I met Ron Paul and he said, "Thank you for inviting me to YOUR rEVOLution". It was "shock and awe". MY rEVOLUtion? All these banners say "Ron Paul", not "The Granger". And the "push the join the GOP".. major rift. I didn't join until 2011.. I voted NADER (for my fifth time, because what the hell.. I'm NOT voting GOP. (So I can completely understand those who say "F/GOP".. but GOP isn't what I thought it was.. it's a good fight. I like it.)

So there are those of us who got in the GOP.. FOR Ron Paul. While we're in the GOP.. there's still new folks coming to the Liberty Movement, which again, least we forget Republican GJ snapping on a LP button in 2012 rift, but again.. we have another serious rift because what it was in 08 or 12 is not what it is. Ron Paul's message is being heard by the left, programmed in such a way that this is who Ron Paul was talking about when he said so casually, "this is the youth". I wondered where they were because when we would meet at conventions, there wasn't too much youth.. youth is LIBERTY not rEVOLution.

What's not fair (and politics isn't) is that Ron Paul is calling those of us who joined the GOP for him (and this includes Rand, which is why we have a Rand issue) "screed".

Yet, Ron Paul says that Rand delivers his message better than he did. So?? The message is mixed for us longtimers.

I agree with McCobin, of course.. because I KNOW, we're not the war party.. we've been fighting the war party and the liberty movement, not because we want to fight, but because we are being attacked. It's one thing to not agree and debate.. but this name calling.. it's become entertainment.

Screed? Really? Check this out, because being Ron Paul is MEDIA, I checked out anti-war.com// which I used to subscribe because they were "The Brandand Institute" a Libertarian think tank. Look where raimondo is going, dissing McCobin.. gonna teach us all a lesson.. It wasn't Russia that invaded.. it was Georgia! Talk about twisted!

?McCobin is wrong about South Ossetia: like the Crimeans, the Ossetians held a referendum and voted to separate from Georgia’s central government. In response, Georgia invaded the region, sending in its troops before the Russians ever got there."

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/03/25/ron-paul-is-ri...

It made me laugh Raimondo going off about McCobin being unelected in Student for Liberty (raimondo doesn't provide a link, he's known for linking damn near everything).. McCobin is a Co-founder and Executive Director, http://studentsforliberty.org/leadership/

Comprised entirely of students and recently alumni, Students For Liberty’s Board of Directors and International Executive Board together have full authority over the organization and the direction it takes to support students dedicated to liberty.

Meanwhile, here is an excellent article that never mentions Ron Paul McCorbin, Raimondo etc.. but explains exactly why McCobin is right!

http://www.opendemocracy.net/civilresistance/peter-ackerman-...

.02 cents that cost .04 cents

If we allow ourselves to empire build then so should Russia and everyone else. How do you fight a system when the theft is automatically deducted in every pay stub and purchase we make? Do you put stock in saving the current political system through the hope that the next guys will do the right thing? Do we just wait until it goes belly up? How many alternatives do we really have to look at?

But about myself I will not boast, except as it concerns my weaknesses (2 Cor 12:5). Let the unbelievers seek praise from each other; I wish that which is from God alone.

I'm going to concur with a previous poster.

It would help if you gave at least one or two specific examples of people outright supporting authoritarian regimes. I know that I've made a couple of statements recently that might be interpreted as support for Putin, Assad, and for the Ukraine nationalist movement against both America and Russia, but these were all intended as single issue support against what are greater threats to the general cause of liberty.

Granted, I don't share a lot of the social liberalism and anti-theist views of others here, so one might argue that I'm an authoritarian to some extent, and I would likewise say the same about them if speaking on those issues. Take from it what you will.

“My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.” - G.K. Chesterton

See above responses to Michael Nystrom

See above responses to Michael Nystrom

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

Reality versus Theory

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

If someone uses their money, paying the extortion fees, then that someone supports those crimes done by those criminals.

Accurate accounting stops such things in their tracks.

http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/

Joe

They are Soviet spies

like Jee-Host

Upvoted to counter the

downvote.

Because wtf are you talking about?

Stop!

I was counting on those downvotes!!

Jee-Host is a dangerous DP member and a Russian spy.