8 votes

Rand on Immigration - Do you agree?

From an amendment Ted Cruz put in the Gang of Eight bill saying work visas for illegals, and Rand saying we shouldn't deport.

What is your opinion on this?

Again I do not believe Rand is for amnesty, he voted against the Gang of Eight bill. Wants to defend our border, remove incentives. But, should we not even have deportation on the table?

I want to to get a sense of the Liberty Community's opinion on this, thanks!




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As long as...

...they aren't violent aggressors, I think people should be able to freely come and go as they please in the marketplace of the world.

Yes

Only without a PENNY of help or even a finger of a hand to hold. They couldn't survive if you cut them off completely. Only then will reality come to fruition that it may not be so much fun here without the helpful hand. It may just create an environment that has them go start some small businesses in Mexico and build up that country.......

I live less than 1 hour north of the Mexican border.

I am unsure why we are concerned with deporting people whose only crime was being born on the wrong side of an imaginary line. Do you realize how lucky you were to be born in the U.S? Most of those people work very hard (harder than most Americans I know). Deportation destroys families and is extremely hypocritical for a country founded on genocide of the Native inhabitants and wars of conquest. After all, how many of you can trace your ancestry to another nation? We are all immigrants.

My real question is why we are focusing on harmless people and not the real harm cause by the collusion between the Mexican cartels and our own government? It isn't the family looking for work that causes the problems here. It's the smugglers.

I also

Live less then 45 minutes from the border. By your statements, I cannot tell if you are near the California border or another state.

The drug war is an entire different subject on it's own. That all immigrants are "harmless people" is arbitrary at best. I have seen too much where I grew up to believe a blanket statement like that. Not sure you have bars on your window like I have to.

And I swear if I hear "we are all immigrants" one more time......

He wasn't really making a point about deporation

The point of his comment was that the republican party needs to present more to Latinos than just immigration. If all they hear from the republican party is talk about deportation, then the republican party will continue to have no constituency in that group.

LIBERTY2ME's picture

I think we should focus on

I think we should focus on the legal citizens and our borders for now. Anyone wonder why after all these years we just MUST deal with immigration right now? I think illegal immigration is a problem, but our gov't needs to focus on the current citizens of this country that voted them in for now. Then later after this country, it's borders and it's people are stronger, then we can do what someone mentioned below that Ron Paul says znd stop giving the illegals handouts, sit back and watch them leave all on thier own.

Work Visas Yes, Citizenship No

If they can prove they have a job, or a job offer, work visas for all.

BUT NO CITIZENSHIP.

Why do the Democrats insists on citizenship? For the votes.

There is no reason to give voting rights. Let them stay with work visas. If they pay into the system, give them Social Security benefits and Medicare benefits.

BUT NO FOOD STAMPS.

It's a tough issue. I'm open to changing my position.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Illegal Immigration is Mexico's welfare program

If it weren't for that relief valve, Mexico would be in revolution now.

These are the people that would create change in Mexico for the better.

Excellent point!

I believe that is the reason the Mexican government turns a blind eye to the problem. And since America benefits from the cheap labor of the migrant workers, our government does too.

I think we should deport them

I think we should deport them all and take down the bird feeders but that wont stop me from supporting Rand.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

Again, Ron was right!!

We wouldn't need to spend money on law enforcement to round them up and deport them...just stop giving out all the free-handouts and they'll leave on their own!
All these social problems today seem (to me) to stem from one single source: The public simply does not understand the role of government. It is NOT the government's job to take care of us and have all these social programs and pay folks for having more and more babies, and free housing and cell phones, etc. If this stopped and we could all live as things were in the early 1940s, most of this nonsense would go away. Just my .02

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

The problem I have

with Rand is, that he doesn't try to sell cutting the social programs as the solution like Ron did. Instead, he trys to cater to the evangelicals by saying the illegals here should get legal status, so 'we can collect taxes from them'. This is were he becomes very 'wishy washy', as he says he wants to eliminate the IRS, but wants to legalize illegals to collect taxes, which is a statist approach. Who will receive these taxes? The Fed, who he also states should be eliminated, funding for Israel, who he once stated should end, and the MIC to fund the wars, that he claims need to end! I only mentioned Israel, as he continues to go after cuts to funding other states, but never includes them any longer. So, he must now believe we should continue to take hard earned tax payer robbed funds and/or more debt creation to fund the state, that causes most of our alleged 'terrorist threats'?

fed taxes aren't the only taxes collected

A mass majority of states collect individual income tax. To inlcude: There's property tax, corporate tax, investment tax, and the list goes continues. In order to have the opportunity to own a home or pay any of these taxes one must have legal documentation.

New massive wave of illegal immigration coming

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/08/Report-Ne...

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

interesting

Maybe to do with the drug cartel violence?

Article states the reason being is due to the economic

slowdown in China, which in turn affects the economy in Latin America. Suggests that preventive measure would be to pass the "Gang of 8" Amnesty Bill.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Regardless of how Rand frames it...

…I'm confident that Rand's position is consistent with libertarianism:

That as long as you're not harming another, you should be free to do anything you want (that includes moving from one place to another).

Period.

Anything else is tyrannical.

Amen

The only difference between an American citizen and a Mexican one is which side of an imaginary line drawn by people who conquered/stole the land from someone else you were born on. All borders are illegitimate.

The concept of immigration laws, is illegal in a free society

"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

It was never about "Give us your poor, so they can go through a background check, spend 7 years on our soil, or marry an American to become one."

The fact immigration is even mentioned, or deportation without a crime, shows how far we have fallen from liberty.

I do not care what country you are in now, whether it is this one, or another, if you live with freedom in your heart, you are more of a brother to me than all these nationalists who think a piece of paper means acceptance.

I'm with you, Anthony!

Liberty does not respect borders. EMPOWER PEOPLE, NOT GOVERNMENT.

double post

double post

We don't have to deport, they

We don't have to deport, they came here, they will go back. All you have to do is make it a felony to provide housing, benefits or employ an illegal alien and their welcome will dry out instantly...

Kind of like how it worked

Kind of like how it worked for marijuana and cocaine, right?

S. 744

At a cost of more than $25 Billion to implement, S. 744 has 32 occurrences of "Biometric" within the text of the bill.

I believe in a free society, the great "melting pot". Working toward eliminating social welfare would resolve many of the problems associated with immigration. People need to provide for their families. People should work and become productive members of their communities.

IMO, this "immigration reform" is setting us up for something that I do not want; once "Biometrics" is implemented, tptb will claim that some are "slipping through the cracks", and in order to differentiate "us" from "them", all Americans will be required to be biometrically ID'd.

There are already laws on the books which are purposefully NOT enforced. Say NO to any/all "immigration reform", until the actual problems are addressed.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s744/text

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I'm for

deportation - straight to 1600 Pencilveinia Ave.