44 votes

Desert Tortoise Conservation Center's plan to euthanize hundreds of the tortoises in Nevada by 2014.

According to an article dated 8/25/13, in the Las Vegas Huffington Post, because of a lack of Federal funding the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center can no longer care for the turtles that they've been caring for since the animals were added to the endangered species list in 1990 and, as a result, "...Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014." "...the pampered desert dweller now faces a threat from the very people who have nurtured it."

Federal funds are running out at the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center and officials plan to close the site and euthanize hundreds of the tortoises that they've been caring for since the animals were added to the endangered species list in 1990, according to the article.

How does allegedly killing/burying (with or without a court order) and/or selling Mr. Bundy's cattle now save the tortoise from extinction in the Nevada desert when they, the the FEDs, won't help preserve the turtles anymore--maybe even up to a thousand or more of the 1,400 turtles they've been caring for--when they won't release the funds necessary to keep them off that endangered species list for their preservation??

And to add insult to real injury, how much money $$ is it really costing the FEDs to have the reportedly observed 100+ Bureau of Land Management officers there in full-on battle gear driving around in $80,000--maybe even $100,000.00 fully outfitted battle field-type vehicles--to protect the turtles from Mr. Bundy's cattle, anyway? I mean, if the turtles are so important to the FED's, then why don't they use the money they're spending on the BLM to save the poor endangered creatures instead, and not kill-off or sell-off Mr. Bundy's cattle--themselves being poor creatures caught in the middle. It seems like there is something more happening here that has little to do with keeping the turtles off the endangered species list, but has more to do with an extreme display of lethal power to intimidate instead of mitigate.

*Newly added (4/10/14 9:50 Pacific): Just heard Mr. Bundy's son say that he has discovered that the BLM is tearing out the water pipes that were part of their original homestead, put there as part of the original water rights that they use now to water their cattle. Sorry, but as I am typing this, Mr. Bundy, Jr. is still being interviewed on Info Wars so I have no link. Check the info War web site later for confirmation.

*2006 - "Geologists think there could be billions of gallons of oil under Nevada's deserts." - CBS 8, KLAS LV., NV http://www.8newsnow.com/story/4877010/nevadas-hidden-treasur....



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only in America

Can things get this stupid. Let's change the national anthem to Weird Al's Dare to be Stupid.

Ron Paul Supporters OFFER to adopt all gov turtles

Lets make the offer. And lets all follow thru with adoption. Even relocation to arizona is fine by me. Put them on my land here: www.landtobuy.com

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Yeah and not only that, we can maybe put some back with tribes

That's almost a no brainer. Not only Dineh and Hopi maybe but Havasupai and Yavapai that still have some of the right types of land for these creatures. That's not such a bad idea at all and it only takes a few phone calls.

And hey! Maybe it's not such a bad idea to bring the native perspective into this dogfight. I dunno. Lemme know.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Governments don't protect

Governments don't protect endangered species. In fact when governments declare a species endangered, it usually makes their decline more rapid.

If instead the government allowed individuals to claim property rights on endangered species like these tortoises, then individuals, property rights, and free markets would do far more for the tortoises than the government could ever do. And there would be no mess that the Bundy's are going through right now.

Stupid government.

OK this situation has gone full stupid.

The one thing I can say is we don't need more guns on this charade.

I'm serious here, if anyone is thinking to gear up and "mobilize" my advice is just call up the boys and pop some beers and discuss sports. This is OVER, the whole legal issue is beyond murky, what the strategic objective is mystifies me, the issue should be relegated to the courts and spilling blood over COWS?

Sure, tell me about larger issues but we're talking about fighting over HAMBURGERS? Or wait a minute, what we're talking about here is simple property rights issues and the issue at hand is THIS GUY WANTS PERPETUAL FREE RIGHTS TO PROPERTY WE ALL TECHNICALLY OWN IN COMMON.

How exactly does that square with our value system? We're calling private property ownership itself into question.

Which discussion I'm not opposed to I just wonder if many of you guys even get this slippery slope you put yourselves on by supporting this guy.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Hamburgers? More like

Hamburgers? More like another case of fascist Agenda 21 thugs coming in to clear yet another chunk of land of pesky peasants so that their corporate masters can FRAK oil and FOREVER destroy the ground water in the area.

This has nothing to do with turtles or cows or even property at this point. Its those holding onto the dream that we are free, vs. the central banking, Orwelleon empire.

Guys I'm coming around

because all this federal muscle is becoming it's own causus belli. You are right: every day that goes by from here it's less and less about cows and more and more about simple state aggression.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Smudge Pot, I know you are capable...

I know you are capable of thinking deeper than you show in your above comment. So please consider the following points:

1) Blood has already been spilt. BLM officers already beat up one of Bundy's sons!
2) IF more blood is spilt (and we all hope not), it will most likely be the blood of one or more of We the People; but, it is also likely, though less likely, that the blood of government agents will also be spilt.
3) If blood is spilt, the person spilling the blood better have a good enough reason to do so.
4) Cows are not the issue; nor are hamburgers.
5) Tortoises are not the issue, as proven by Yogmama in this post.
6) Fines are not the issue. Otherwise, we would be seeing the agents offering settlements of the debt to the Bundy's in person, with megaphones.
7) ANYTIME A LEGAL ISSUE IS MURKY, GOVERNMENT IS VIOLATING ONE OR MORE OF ITS LIMITATIONS. All laws must be clear or they are null and void for vagueness.
8) This guy does NOT want perpetual rights to property we all own in common against our will. Have you seen the land? Nobody wanted it in the 1870, except for grazing their cattle, so the Bundy's and other ranchers purchased rights to the orage, water and other rights that go with the land, yet leaving the land under the ownership of the people of Nevada, so they can travel across it, sightsee, campout, hunt, fish, etc., when they do not want to live there. It has never been a problem for the people of Nevada that the ranchers had purchased certain rights to the land that no one else wanted so they could produce somne benefit to all who desired to partake of the fruit of ranchers via the marketplace. That's all fine and dandy. But...
9) The government (Congress), probably under pressure from environventalists, passed unconstitutional legislation limiting the rancher's rights. (See Article I, Section 8, paragraph 17 of the U S Constitution.) One by one they have caved in and conceded their LAWFUL rights to an UNLAWFUL government agency. The Bundy's are the last ranchers to stand for their rights and not capitulate to an over-reaching government.
10) The issue is about control. The federal government has over-reached its constitutional limits and cannot bear to lose their ill-gotten power. The abuse of power will only continue until We the People, their bosses, stand up and demand they stand down. If they ignore our demands, then it is our duty to do the same thing to them that they would do to us if we disobeyed a lawful order given by them.
11) the BML agents on the ground are only doing what they are told. That is no excuse, as the Nuremburg Trials after WWII illustrate. They must be instructed in the constitution that they swore or affirmed to uphold. This is not being done in a civil manner because people are upset. Someone independent third party (person, not political organization) needs to step in and teach the constitutional principle involved to the agents and the people on a megaphone, lay out the case for the Bundy's and then publicly , for all America to see and hear, demand that the agents obey their oath or affirmation and stand down!
12) IF that is done and the government does not stand down, then I believe it is the right and the duty for the People to punish the wrongdoers (government), led by Cliven Bundy, "for he beareth not the sword in vain".
13) Because that is a possibility, then yes, people need to be taking their arms and ammo and whatever else they think may be needed. They should not think, "Oh, its the government, we can't fight against them". They should act like the bosses, but be very deliberate and respectful, but firm.

If the Constitution means anything to us (we know it doesn't mean much to the government), we should show it and stand for it. The Constitution does not protect us from government encroachment; it is just a piece of paper. We the People protect ourselves from government encroachment. It's expressed in the 2nd amendment, the least-used right of We the People.

So, yes, this is a big deal and we need to support this guy, because he is doing what we all should have doing all along - not complying with unconstitutional government demands, fines and orders.

Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do.
Liberty is the ability to do what you ought to do.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Corinthians 3:17

The issue being far from static, well...

it WAS about cows but now not only is the situation potentially more complicated (what about strategic minerals?), we're also talking water rights (always a point of contention in a desert) and now just this massive, gratuitious over reaction by BIA which is a very broad affront.

This is your classic snowball effect. I don't like it, I don't feel comfortable with it, I don't feel like we're on strategically sound intellectual footing but...sometimes you don't get to pick and chose your fights.

Yeah at this point it is what it is. But I'm struck with a sense of being a reluctant warrior.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Thak you for laying it all out as it really needs to be ...

understood. Great response to Smudge Pot's point of view.

"Geologists think there could be billions of gals of oil under .

Nevada's deserts"- May 8, 2006, KLAS TV, CBS 8, Las Vegas. Maybe you're right--it's not about cows; but maybe its about oil. Government loves bending over to big oil no matter who/what gets hurt as a result. Maybe now in 2014 it's time to start fracking (the ranchers over in the name of the humble tortoise). http://www.8newsnow.com/story/4877010/nevadas-hidden-treasur... More research is needed on this subject, but its a start.

Know someone goinng to the Bundy Ranch?

Get this article's message out. Ask the BLM officers how many tortoises one of those vehicles could have saved. Better yet on camera.

I oppose Tortoise Euthanasia

Because it would be cheaper to shell them than to kill them.

Euthanize the Federal Government

Amen!!

"--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..." - Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do.
Liberty is the ability to do what you ought to do.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Corinthians 3:17

overblown hyperbole

most tortoise are rehabilitated and will be released,,,, some are to weak and would suffer so it seems humane to extinguish them

we do it with our sick dogs and cats all the time

the captive, tame, pet ones are actively trying to find homes

a petition signed and answered and explained all this and the mixup of who was involved,two different agencies,

it made for good headlines but was far from the truth

I'm not arguing the cattle part, just the tortoise part

Too weak to be put in the care of someone else, anyone else?

Too weak to be put in the care of someone else, anyone else?

Federal protocol

If you can't control it, kill it.

Epic

I am going to liberate the great one liner you've just written and put it up in sticker form on the back window of my gas hog SUV. Thanks a mill!

Perfect

.

Great article!

Thanks, Yogmama

My pastor allowed me to put a link to your article on our church website. On the page linked below, look under "Important Links."

http://www.35thavenuebaptist.org/cliven-bundy.html

Pastor taught on the Right to Life, tonight.

It seemed earlier that the government was more interested in the rights of tortoises than of We the People.

Your article makes it clear that they are not concerned with ANYONE'S rights, not even animals. (Where's the hue and cry from PETA?)

All they're interested in is CONTROL!

Thanks again for your very important contribution to this issue and the battle for liberty.

Freedom is the ability to do what you want to do.
Liberty is the ability to do what you ought to do.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Corinthians 3:17

Thank you for sharing!

I heard Pete Santilli speak about it yesterday on hi s show and looked it up; sure enough there it was in the Huffington Post.

Why euthanize them?

Why euthanize them? Wouldn't they do better to give them to zoo's, or to some random kids that would at least let them live? Or just let them go. Why guarantee their death? It sounds like they are just bitter about their lack of funding and don't really care about the tortoises.

----------

when misinformation is spread,,, you may think your last thought
but it's unfounded

and do you really think the people who have dedicated their days , weeks, months ,careers to caring for these tortoises would vengefully kill them to prove a point???

That's like asking

"Do you think the Feds at the Bundy Ranch would tazer someone or shoot someone just to prove a point"

Like FREE SILVER says above. "Federal Protocol, if you can't control it, kill it."

No, but their "superiors" may decide to take such

vengeful action - then what do the caregivers do? "Their job"? Just like all these freaking BLM employees out there now - I'm sure most don't agree with what their told to do but do it anyway, because they're told to.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace." - Jimi Hendrix