10 votes

'Racism,' Slavery, LBJ & the Reality of being NYT-Walter Block-ed: Bundy Ranch, Stewart Rhodes, Militia, Drone Strikes, Oh My!

BUNDY RANCH: Racist Claim Debunked

http://youtu.be/GhSVyFvAfXc
NextNewsNetwork
Published on Apr 27, 2014

Is Cliven Bundy a racist? In this scathing rebuttal William Norman Grigg destroys the racist claims and reveals the real racists at work.

The BLM: Scourge of "Lesser Breeds Without the Law"

Bunkerville Was Not the BLM's First Rustler's Roundup

To those here and elsewhere gullible enough to actually buy into the MSM headline and characterization of a man born of different era using the now BorgHive-deemed non-PC 'offensive' term, to a generation of fools whose idea of "history" is 'um...like omg like...um like my FaceBook "likes" and Twitter updates 5minutes ago! Yay!', who tried to convey in his own raw unpolished naturalism without the benefit of a PIO or a $250k/yr corporate PR person speaking for him, who mulled a rhetorical arguendo wading into complex socio-economic matters, which apparently is 'not allowed' by the collectivist Borg-hive 'society,' especially if you're a salt-of-the-earth-desert cattle rancher who is supposedly forbidden to talk on matters solely reserved for MSM repeaters & turf owned by Ivy League academics, just know that Cliven Bundy just got 'Walter Block-ed,' also by the NYT. Do please consider the following:

I am also falsely accused of saying that welfare was worse than slavery for black people.
Walter E. Block
April 24, 2014 | 10:25 pm

William Norman Grigg pointed out on these pages (https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/for-progressives-though...) that Walter Williams was accused by some white guy of being a racist for saying that welfare is worse for black people than slavery. He never said any such thing. Rather, what he said was that welfare was worse than slavery for black family formation, something quite different, as anyone with an IQ above room temperature could appreciate.

As it happens, I, too, have been accused of racism for the same reason. Some ignoramus said: “Walter Block Says Slavery Is Better Than Welfare For African-Americans” [** The clip was edited by a RP & Peter Schiff hater who goes by "SchittReport." It's from Lauren Lyster's now defunct, IMHO best 28min daily econ show, Capital Account: Defining Libertarianism and Austrian Economics with Walter Block]. I never said any such thing, either in this interview of mine with RT. Rather, I said what my friend Walter Williams said: that welfare was worse for black family formation than slavery, again, something very, very different.

Hey, psst, keep this to yourselves. If the president of my university gets hold of this, and/or many of my colleagues at Loyola University, I too will be accused of racism.

The term "negro" was then equivalent of the current PC-term "African American" or if you're a guilt-laden white Trendie hipster wannabe: "of the more melanated/melaninated persuasion."

Um...only like MLK, JFK, RFK, Malcolm-X used it, not to mention: United Negro College Fund ring a bell?

Oh and let us not get into what the Dem Party god LBJ said about blacks.

Actually... let's!

xD

The following is how a REAL racist 'thinks' and talks; from Ronald Kessler’s “Inside The White House”

“I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” —Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One

“These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.”—LBJ

President Lyndon Johnson using the "N" word.

http://youtu.be/r1rIDmDWSms
Uploaded on Feb 16, 2008
Taken from a documentary called The "N" Word

What My Father Told Me About LBJ and "Niggers"
By Robert Morrow
Friday, August 30, 2013

In honor of yesterday's 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I would like to give you a little tidbit about Lyndon Johnson as president, his take on civil rights & his attitudes towards black Americans. LBJ called up George Wallace to visit him in the White House. Wallace brought along his right hand man and #1 Alabama political operative Seymore Trammell. His son Warren Trammell is one of my Facebook friends.

Here is how the meeting of Lyndon Johnson and George Wallace went. This meeting was on March 13, 1965. It was the following Saturday after the previous "Bloody Sunday" in Selma. Actually this meeting was highly publicized, but the actual contents of it as relayed by Warren Trammell are not well known. Also, I do not know if the USA was bombing the Ho Chi Minh trail at that time, but I think Trammell catches the unvarnished behind the scenes "flavor" of LBJ quite well.

Go to LBJ's presidential schedule and look up March 13, 1965: http://www.lbjlibrary.net/collections/daily-diary.html
http://www.lbjlibrary.net/assets/lbj_tools/daily_diary/pdf/1...

On the diary it says 12:05PM Meeting - LBJ, George Wallace, Seymour Trammell, Katzenbach, Bill Moyers and Burke Marshall.

By the way, like Wallace and the Trammells, I am a native of Alabama so this is of special interest to me.

Of course this is what Cliven Bundy actually said, in full: Unedited Tape of Bundy Emerges, Sheds Light on 'Racist' Remarks

Cliven Bundy (Full) Controversial Remarks April 19, 2014

http://youtu.be/agXns-W60MI
Allen Gwinn
Published on Apr 24, 2014

**** UPDATED "PRE" REMARKS: http://youtu.be/v6xjGPmAckg
**** CNN soundbite version: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politicians-...

Several comments here point out earlier remarks made by Bundy and claim these are taken out of context. In the interest of fairness, the above is a followup video of those remarks.

Full version of race remarks made by Bundy that have generated some controversy. If you're looking for a more hacked-up soundbite version that makes him look more like a racist, you might want to check out what CNN did to him at the link (above)

Following is what Cliven would've wanted to say:

PRESS RELEASE
Friday, April 25, 2014
Posted by Bundy Ranch at 8:36 AM

We are trading one form of slavery for another.

What I am saying is that all we Americans are trading one form of slavery for another. All of us are in some measure slaves of the federal government. Through their oppressive tactics of telling the ranchers how many cows they can have on their land, and making that number too low to support a ranch, the BLM has driven every rancher in Clark County off the land, except me. The IRS keeps the people of America in fear, and makes us all work about a third or a half of the year before we have earned enough to pay their taxes. This is nothing but slavery from January through May. The NSA spies on us and collects our private phone calls and emails. And the government dole which many people in America are on, and have been for much of their lives, is dehumanizing and degrading. It takes away incentive to work and self respect. Eventually a person on the dole becomes a ward of the government, because his only source of income is a dole from the government. Once the government has you in that position, you are its slave.

I am trying to keep Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream alive. He was praying for the day when he and his people would be free, and he could say I’m free, free at last, thank God I’m free at last! But all of us here America, no matter our race, are having our freedom eroded and destroyed by the federal government because of its heavy handed tactics. The BLM, the IRS, the NSA--all of the federal agencies are destroying our freedom. I am standing up against their bad and unconstitutional laws, just like Rosa Parks did when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. She started a revolution in America, the civil rights movement, which freed the black people from much of the oppression they were suffering. I'm saying Martin Luther King's dream was not that Rosa could take her rightful seat in the front of the bus, but his dream was that she could take any seat on the bus and I would be honored to sit beside her. I am doing the same thing Rosa Parks did--I am standing up against bad laws which dehumanize us and destroy our freedom. Just like the Minutemen at Lexington and Concord, we are saying no to an oppressive government which considers us to be slaves rather than free men.

I invite all people in America to join in our peaceful revolution to regain our freedom. That is how America was started, and we need to keep that tradition alive.

Cliven D. Bundy

Zo from the neoCon Pajama Media HATES Ron Paul & R3VOL, but he does a very good job here parsing the MSM propaganda, also directly linked from the Bundys' official blog: http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2014/04/pjtv-bundy-boo-booor-...

PJTV: A Bundy Boo Boo...Or Liberal Media Mendacity?

http://youtu.be/Stbf9GcVQ3E
PJ Media
Published on Apr 29, 2014

There's two things to learn from Bundy's 'racism':

1) Liberals are not going to stop race baiting. Why would they stop using their most effective tool?

2) Many Conservatives really, really, really need to improve on their communication skills, and how to relate their ideas.

Experience the creative energy and conservative insight that Zo delivers in every show. Click here to buy the ZoNation Complete Series Collection: http://bit.ly/ZoNationCompleteSeries

Even James Yeager & crew went there in person to provide PSD for Cliven & film for their upcoming pro-gunnie TV show, "Ammo Nation".

Bundy Ranch - A Special Edition of AmmoNation

http://youtu.be/bjqdiWqhEeQ
AmmoNation
Published on Apr 25, 2014

The AmmoNation saw that this story was not being covered by the mainstream media so we packed up our gear and headed West to Bunkerville Nevada. We didn't just report the story...we became part of it.

Yeager 'caught' quoting Plato:D

Cliven Bundy Ranch - Part 13 - Reid and James on Fox

http://youtu.be/PCxUgr-wJG8
James Yeager
Published on Apr 20, 2014

The Bundy Ranch With James Yeager and Reid Henrichs

http://youtu.be/-YyDTBm_puI
TheHossUSMC
Published on Apr 29, 2014
Bundy Ranch, Domestic Terrorists, and Freedom Fighters
Posted on April 23, 2014 by TheHoss

After one spending the last week observing the Bundy ranch and family, as both security and as press, I think I have a pretty good picture of the situation in Bunkerville. There are several issues at play here.

The least understood, and most reported on, is that the Bundys have not paid grazing fees and taxes. The taxes claim is total bullshit. What is at issue is that Mr. Bundy has refused to pay fees for services that the BLM no longer provides, and hasn’t for very many years. The BLM has in fact been actively using those fees to create a less friendly climate for ranchers and dairy farmers, the latter of which no longer exist. The Bundys have even tried to pay the appropriate fees to local or state governments.

The real story here is that the BLM decided that because the Bundys were not going to bend over and take the big green weenie from government that they had to be shut down. So the BLM hired a Utah rancher, because no Nevadan ones would do it, along with contract cowboys, who are essentially paid rustlers, to round up the free range cattle. The BLM thugs were there in full force to protect these hired rustlers as the maimed, and slaughtered dozens of cattle in the round up. They also brought in lots of heavy equipment to destroy the Bundys improvements to the land. This brutality and illegal seizure of the cattle resulted in millions of dollars that come from the tax payers of the US. Mr. Bundys original fees total around the 300,000 dollar range.

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Midst all that, then comes this nonsense "Survivor" cast of "Lord of the Flies" biotch circle pow-wow yahoos:

Apr 26 OMA meeting

http://youtu.be/Wcqp3n9mXZE
Jason Patrick
Published on Apr 28, 2014

The coalition of militia meeting Monday, April 28, 2014...

Believe the man at the center is "Ryan Payne," the NOT-US Army Ranger 'ranger,' the self-designated 'Me-Chief, You Follow' who openly talks about "putting one in the back of the blah blah blah."

** Pssst, hint hint: anyone who talks openly like that is either a Fed COINTELPRO, or just your run of the mill insecure over compensatory gear-laden loudmouthed douche.

A previous interview with Ryan, before the whole Oath Keepers vs. PaynePosse hit a crescendo:

Interview with Cliven Bundy's Militia Representative

http://youtu.be/79xKxWbBYcw
Southern Nevada Watchdogs
Published on Apr 12, 2014

On our visit to the militia camp we met and interviewed Ryan Payne, adviser and organizer for Operation Mutual Aid, a national organization of militia and patriotic citizens who have taken the stand between tyrants and the oppressed.

Visit http://www.SNWatchdog.org

And, I believe the "Jerry" being referenced in the Oath Keepers rebuttal video below, is Jerry DeLemus from NH: the USMC vet & Tea-O-Con Glenn 'Cry on Cue' Beck's BS-faux manufactured/astroturfed 'patriotic' "912" member (yes, because you should mark an arbitrary date after 9/11 to remind yourself that now you live in the post 9/11 DHS policestate, and you should love it, and hate everyone your govt tells you to hate, and follow-the-leader of the astroturfed, faux-patriot collective).

** should be noted that Stewart Rhodes initially was cordial with Jerry, until whatever transpired behind the scenes:

Bundy Ranch: We Came Risking Never Coming Home Jerry DeLemus

http://youtu.be/GS7EoIFZcs8
NextNewsNetwork
Published on Apr 15, 2014

In this Next News exclusive Stewart Rhodes speaks to Jerry DeLemus, one of the Marine Veterans who traveled over 3000 miles to defend the Bundy Ranch from Federal Tyranny in Nevada.

All of which, take eye off the ball, to a point where Stewart Rhodes and the Oath Keepers had to make a public statement, regarding very un-warrior-ethos-esque back-biotch-talking and what seems like a very prolific rumor-mill:

Oath Keepers Bundy Ranch Debrief

http://youtu.be/4HkSAewoESg
OathKeepersOK
Published on Apr 30, 2014

This is the official statement from the Oath Keepers regarding the Bundy Ranch Situation.

MIRROR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmxvpkOC3kY

Oath Keepers Debrief On Bundy Ranch: What Happened And How
April 30th, 2014

Here is more info from Stewart Rhodes and company on the rift between the alleged “leaders” of the militia down at the Bundy Ranch. This debriefing focuses on just a few men who would sabotage Oath Keepers’ mission at the Bundy Ranch. It explains some sequences and some activities which you’ve not heard about before.

Please understand that Oath Keepers has great faith in the majority of good men and women in the militias represented at the Ranch. We just have problems with people who want to stir up trouble, for such people are most often what we call “Agents Provocateur”. We are not accusing anyone of being an agent provocateur, but we are definitely identifying certain actions and statements by questionable men as being exactly the sort of activity an agent provocateur would display. It is just a few, and we think that the greater majority of militiamen and militiawomen serving there are tops, and you have our support and our gratitude for your sacrifice for the Bundy Ranch mission. Well done. Oath Keepers suggests that you do question your leadership to be sure they are who and what they claim to be. We would especially encourage people to look into any claims about any specialty service in the military that any of the current leaders might claim.

But note please – this debriefing session with five Oath Keepers is important, but this only covers one aspect of our work at the Bundy Ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada. Oath Keepers marches on, and our reports will continue to dispel the psy-op rumors about our work at the ranch. View this video to find many answers to questions currently flying about the Internet. Try to help people learn the truth by sending this to your lists. Thanks!

Salute!

Elias Alias, editor

***************************************************************

Rhetorical, but nevertheless, moi constantly baffled as to WHY so many seem to stop utilizing their daily 'Um, that douche is trying to sell me a lemon!' a-hole-radar faculty, when watching some of these videos like the Apr 26 OMA meeting.

Seriously, just what is it about the camera that people always are mesmerized by?

Could be Youtube, TV, Film, but the effect always seems to be the same: suspended disbelief, where natural 'laws' of human dynamics and 'people reading'-signals and clues are alchemically forever altered...

Weird.

For those who may not be familiar, or interested, beyond simply absorbing and assessing multiple sources of vids, articles, direct and indirect testimonies, simple rule of thumb for viewing faraway events from a 3rd party POV: ask yourselves, who are the known, credible, reputable entities in all this.

Is it Stewart Rhodes? The Fmr. US Army Paratrooper, Yale-grad attorney who wrote award winning legal papers challenging the GWB regime's designation of what an "enemy combatant" is, who worked IN Dr. Paul's DC Congressional office, since 2009 a man who single handedly inspired a nationwide movement and network of Const. Oath re-affirmations, coalescing other r3VOL's 9 & 10th Amendment efforts like Sheriff Mack's CSPOA and Michael Boldin's 10th Amendment Center, among those who will be utilized when GovtTerrorist tyranny's rubbers meet the road: the Enforcer Class, aka LE & Military? A dyed in the wool R3VOL? A man who inspired a 90yo+ WWII combat vet, and drives him around, personally, like he was his own grandpa??

Or, Ryan & Jerry? Expensive FLIR unit (alleged) thieves? Loudmouths who couldn't even organize a HS production of McBeth, let alone a national traveling theater company.

Who are the ones who have built trust, credibility, and have publicly trackable and verifiable transparent records??

Think McFly. Think.

Even as 'out there' and improbable as a "DoD/DoJ okayed drone strike on Bundy Ranch," even for the govt terrorists, at this point, especially with media spotlight on the Bundy Ranch, if it were to happen (the Nazis already assumed legal 'right' to do so, regardless of how UnConstitutional and criminal it is) would anyone be surprised??

But how did Stewart address this? He publicly mulled every plausible possibilities: from pure Psy Ops intended to ID the source of their leak, the on-the-ground-militia element's response time/mobilization methods etc, or possibly real, seeing as how 2012 NDAA Sec.1021/1022 is in full effect and faux-'legally' they do in fact consider the CONUS as a "battlefield," in their alchemical legalese speak.

http://radiofreeredoubt.podbean.com/2014/04/25/special-repor...

If you actually listen to the above closely, Stewart is NOT raising holy water hell alert: he's calmly communicating what's going on without an intent to 'cry wolf'-alarm, but merely as an update & a note of precaution. And yet, to the substance vs. style-clueless sheeple, that, was spun as fear-mongering, like how MSDNC dolts listening-in would characterize.

Observing some comments here, and on the InterWebs, it's like nobody listens, reads, or researches anymore.o/

Geesh. Twitchy trigger fingers, govt & MSM-spun national headlines. Oh my!

Come on folks: we're old hands at this. Macro, meta-'Big Picture' folks. Yup. Meta.

PS. Despite the fact that he has supplied our very own Gary Franchi with a lot of useful footages from the Bundy Ranch, especially the now infamous & possibly the most viewed video out of the entire Bundy Ranch saga, the 'BLM taser Bundy's son 3 times & threw a 57yo cancer survivor onto the ground vid, one other 'patriot' to keep a vigilant eye on? Someone who openly daydreams about "shooting her vagina:" Pete Santilli

Yes, he actually said that LIVE on the air, vs a woman with a 24/7 SS PSD element shadowing her:

Radio Host Pete Santilli: Hillary Clinton ‘Needs To Be Shot In The Vagina’

by Jordan Chariton | 4:37 pm, May 18th, 2013

"I want to shoot her right in the vagina and I don’t want her to die right away; I want her to feel the pain and I want to look her in the eyes and I want to say, on behalf of all Americans that you’ve killed, on behalf of the Navy SEALS, the families of Navy SEAL Team Six who were involved in the fake hunt down of this Obama, Obama bin Laden thing, that whole fake scenario, because these Navy SEALS know the truth, they killed them all. On behalf of all of those people, I’m supporting our troops by saying we need to try, convict, and shoot Hillary Clinton in the vagina."

Now, 'legally' speaking, a felony "intent to harm with a deadly weapon" consists of specifying how and in what manner and to whom one publicly declares his/her intent TO harm. On top of that, if they can be found to have motive, ability, and opportunity. Um, that's like a case closed...if anyone but a COINTELPRO provocateur of the Hal Turner ilk say it. Just something to keep in mind.

But hey, then again I could be wrong, and he could just be another in a long line of unstable loudmouths.

EXPOSED: Internet Radio Host Pete Santilli Revealed as FBI Informant

Susanne Posel
Occupy Corporatism
October 29, 2013

[...]

Pete Santilli, primary internet radio host on the Rense Network , has been exposed as an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI).

In a fax dated the 28th of October, Santilli contacted the FBI Field Office in Sacramento, California for help in fear of becoming “the scapegoat” in what is entitled “Operation Outruck” (OOT).

[...]

A search of this operation turns up a document that was taken down from the internet. As of this writing, there is no information about OOT other than the mention in the fax from Santilli to the FBI.

Then again, Susanne Posel thinks a designer who used to work at a 'design mill' who worked together among numerous other artists and graphic designers for a branding company who did corporate branding design contract for STRATFOR, automatically makes the said female graphic designer a CIA/MOSSAD asset... just because she now works at a new media company that used to pay Posel for freelance writing work on a per-job-basis, but has since gone separate ways. [StartPage.com it, y'all can easily find out whom/which company I'm referring to]

xD

***************************************************************

UPDATE 1: Mike Vanderboegh is O.G. RP patriot movement remnant and a 3%er's 1st hand account: Don't forget to sleep. Jerry is the head of "The Fruits and Nuts Brigade." And, Ryan Payne is most likely a Fed COINTELPRO!

H/T: Stonewall Jackson

"There is no teacher but the enemy." The Bundy Ranch Federally-Sponsored Cluster Coitus: Oath Keepers makes their case. My experiences and thoughts.
My final conclusion is that if Oath Keepers is guilty of anything it is that they were too trusting, too helpful and too eager to make peace with people who obviously had their own agendas, some simple thievery and others in service to their federal masters.

Mike Vanderboegh, aka "Dutchman6"
Thursday, May 1, 2014, 5:57 AM

"There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will ever tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you when he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -- Mazer Rackham to Ender Wiggin in Ender's Game.

Oath Keepers makes their case of their actions and reactions at the Bundy Ranch in this video. It is necessarily long, reflecting as it does the testimony of five participants and a discussion of how they came to the decisions that they did. That said, it is worth watching all the way through. Please do that now and then return for my comments.

Smear vs. Stewart Rhodes dispelled:

It is also important to recall that Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers board and I have not always seen eye to eye on some things. You may recall that OK at first committed to support, and then pulled out of, the armed march in Northern Virginia back in 2010. At the time there were those who wanted me to -- no, URGED me to -- loudly denounce Oath Keepers in general and Stewart Rhodes in particular for that decision. I did not not do so. I have long had a policy, dating from my work with the constitutional militia in the 90s, that I do not shoot my own side's wounded. I'm glad I had that policy, for Stewart Rhodes has come a long way since those days as a leader and the Oath Keepers are a valuable force in the fight for liberty. Those who accused Stewart then of being a coward did not see him later risk arrest last year at the hands of the Lexington, MA, police force when he refused their order to stay off the green and told them they would have to arrest him to stop him from administering the oath ceremony there. The Lexington PD, gritted their teeth and blinked, allowing the ceremony to go forward. That was entirely Stewart's doing. No, in my experience, Stewart Rhodes is no coward.

yup. know your friends and foe...and the in-between with a few screws missing:

Between the "scouts out" of the Oath Keepers and the camp containing Jerry's CP was the "lower camp" (actually the first militia presence that the press and public saw) of what was dubbed "The Fruits and Nuts Brigade." These were people who were not trusted by the other more competent formations, or did not themselves trust the other formations. These people were, in the main, excitable, prickly and resentful -- and ever ready to talk to the press. There was literally nothing the other formations could do about, or with, them, so they pretty much did a great job of representing the worst face of the Bundy defense operation and the militia to the press. They were often the source of unfounded rumors and dangerous weapon handling. One night they almost started the next American civil war by getting spooked by the arrival of six Las Vegas metro cars traveling in fast convoy down the public road that led to the Bundys. Some of them arranged themselves in a hasty ambush and were only persuaded not to fire first by the intervention of cooler heads who were staying down there. Like I said, "Fruits and Nuts" -- and a constant source of trouble.

There seems to be a consensus about "Ryan Payne" by known Freedom Movement activists & O.G. militia: Ryan is likely a Fed COINTELPRO

But this business of allying with the same guy -- a likely federal provocateur -- who tried to displace you at your job, and lying by omission and commission about Oath Keepers and the whole drone strike business at a joint presser with the same moke who stuck several knives in your back is inexplicable to me. One of the ploys of a sociopath or a provocateur is to shrink your perceived universe and get you reacting to him and his artificial constructs without reference to outside reality. At such moments you have to be able to have the presence of mind to step back out of the box that he has created for you so you can see the whole picture. It is evident to me that Ryan Payne (or whatever his real name is) is an expert at that trick. On my last day, the moke tried provoking me and I finally blew him off with the comment, "Well, like Grandpa Vanderboegh said, 'Don't try to to teach your Grandma how to suck eggs." He thought I was joking and broke off the engagement. I wasn't joking. This ain't my first rodeo and I ran into pukes like him all the time in the 90s. I am convinced that if there had been more Bob Wrights at the event and fewer wide-eyed newbies a lot of this debacle would not have happened.

***************************************************************

UPDATE 2: Another 1st hand participant's confirmation, as to the reality more closely reflecting the one testified by Stewart Rhodes and the OathKeepers in the listed videos above in this thread, than as asserted by Ryan 'NOT Ranger Ranger' Payne: Notice: Constitutional Militias are Withdrawing from Bundy Ranch

H/T: JO4RP

A Letter to the Public, 4 May 2014
Notice: Constitutional Militias are Withdrawing from Bundy Ranch

Eric C. Rahn
Sunday, May 4th, 2014, 3 hrs ago· Tyler, TX ·

When the call came out from militias in Nevada that they needed help because a rancher’s Constitutional rights were being violated, Constitutional militia men, defensive patriot groups, and humanitarian aid groups responded from all over the United States. Individual citizens showed up to protest, and the Sleeping Giant was awakened. The Federal government, especially the BLM, found out that if they are going to trample on the Constitutional Rights of U.S. Citizens, they will meet overwhelming resistance. The mission went as all Constitutional Militias prayed it would; the BLM was forced to leave without either side firing a shot.

It is the Goal of all Constitutional Militias and Patriot groups to take our country back without bloodshed. This will, in time, be accomplished as long as the government does not fire on them. If they do then there will, unfortunately, be bloodshed.

Several Militia and Patriot group leaders have conferred, and yesterday, a message was given to one of the people that guards Mr. Cliven Bundy. Mr. Bundy was given an option. He can continue to keep Ryan Payne, a man called Buddha, who refuses to let anyone know who he really is, their other associates with Operation Mutual Aid, and the Mountain Men Militia, and the Constitutional Militias will go home. Or, Mr. Bundy can tell these militants that he wants Constitutional Militias guarding him and we will return when these others leave. This is Mr. Bundy’s choice; the constitutional Militias will NOT be part of any group trying to start a war.

There are now people at the ranch who are best described as militant. These people want to force an armed confrontation. Some are with Operation Mutual Aid and the Mountain Men Militia which are not as their actions have proven Constitutional Militias. Ryan Payne of Operation Mutual Aid has released a stream of videos making accusations of Militias and Oath Keepers being cowards because they fell back and scattered out when the possibility of a drone strike was obtained through intelligence channels. It appears that Mr. Payne’s intent is to discredit other groups so he can remain in control, and that he wants a war. The Militias want a solution. Many militia members have been to war, and will fight if that time comes, but are in absolutely no hurry to speed up the process and kill other Americans if it can be stopped without violence.

It is now past the time for Mr. Bundy to respond. Therefore, we have to assume his choice is to keep who he has at the ranch. Any illegal action by any person at the ranch now has nothing to do with any Constitutional Militias, as an agreed stand down order has been stated to pull out. From this point on, any conflict started by the people at the ranch rest solely upon those there, and the Bundy’s, and not any of the Constitutional Militias who traveled thousands of miles to protect the Bundy’s.

We, the Constitutional Militias, thank the people of Bunkerville for their support and the way they welcomed us into their community. We thank the Bundy’s for their hospitality while we were there. We wish both the Bundy’s and the Citizens of Nevada good luck with this situation and hope it ends well.

To the Federal Government, I want them to understand this: No Patriot Group or Constitutional Militia involved are deserting the Bundy’s. While we will not support illegal militant groups if they start something, we will return if the Bundy’s are further assaulted or their Constitutional Rights are violated again. Keep in mind that this last response was proportional. If this was a test to measure our strength, it failed miserably; you still do not know the size of the American Patriot movement or its capabilities.
There have been accusations made against people and groups; I personally am seeing that they are looked into. If those accusations are found to be true, they will be dealt with. One of the biggest problems we have had since the beginning is Ryan Payne, with Operation Mutual Aid, trying to sew division. The persons who have created this problem will not be allowed to participate in any of the Constitutional Militia’s areas if conflict occurs. We will not tolerate militants, liars, thieves, infiltrators, provocateurs, or any of the like. Just like the military, there is conflict at times that must be handled, but the correct way is to deal with these problems is in house, and not to air dirty laundry in public. I personally apologize to all who have been exposed to the aforementioned videos; they were very unprofessional, and purposely done to discredit the Constitutional Militias. It makes me wonder about the true intentions of those involved. God Bless America and every one of us who lives here.

Ever Vigilant,
CPT Eric C. Rahn - Commanding
Alpha Co, 423rd Battalion, 28th Field Force
Texas Light Foot Militia

To Jerry's credit, he recently did a wee bit of 'let us look at the big picture, and let bygones be bygones'-mea culpa:

Jerry DeLemus

http://youtu.be/6JWRO4a6MVY
Jason Patrick
Published on May 3, 2014



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update 2

UPDATE 2: Another 1st hand participant's confirmation, as to the reality more closely reflecting the one testified by Stewart Rhodes and the OathKeepers in the listed videos above in this thread, than as asserted by Ryan 'NOT Ranger Ranger' Payne: Notice: Constitutional Militias are Withdrawing from Bundy Ranch

H/T: JO4RP

A Letter to the Public, 4 May 2014
Notice: Constitutional Militias are Withdrawing from Bundy Ranch

Eric C. Rahn
Sunday, May 4th, 2014, 3 hrs ago· Tyler, TX ·

When the call came out from militias in Nevada that they needed help because a rancher’s Constitutional rights were being violated, Constitutional militia men, defensive patriot groups, and humanitarian aid groups responded from all over the United States. Individual citizens showed up to protest, and the Sleeping Giant was awakened. The Federal government, especially the BLM, found out that if they are going to trample on the Constitutional Rights of U.S. Citizens, they will meet overwhelming resistance. The mission went as all Constitutional Militias prayed it would; the BLM was forced to leave without either side firing a shot.

It is the Goal of all Constitutional Militias and Patriot groups to take our country back without bloodshed. This will, in time, be accomplished as long as the government does not fire on them. If they do then there will, unfortunately, be bloodshed.

Several Militia and Patriot group leaders have conferred, and yesterday, a message was given to one of the people that guards Mr. Cliven Bundy. Mr. Bundy was given an option. He can continue to keep Ryan Payne, a man called Buddha, who refuses to let anyone know who he really is, their other associates with Operation Mutual Aid, and the Mountain Men Militia, and the Constitutional Militias will go home. Or, Mr. Bundy can tell these militants that he wants Constitutional Militias guarding him and we will return when these others leave. This is Mr. Bundy’s choice; the constitutional Militias will NOT be part of any group trying to start a war.

There are now people at the ranch who are best described as militant. These people want to force an armed confrontation. Some are with Operation Mutual Aid and the Mountain Men Militia which are not as their actions have proven Constitutional Militias. Ryan Payne of Operation Mutual Aid has released a stream of videos making accusations of Militias and Oath Keepers being cowards because they fell back and scattered out when the possibility of a drone strike was obtained through intelligence channels. It appears that Mr. Payne’s intent is to discredit other groups so he can remain in control, and that he wants a war. The Militias want a solution. Many militia members have been to war, and will fight if that time comes, but are in absolutely no hurry to speed up the process and kill other Americans if it can be stopped without violence.

It is now past the time for Mr. Bundy to respond. Therefore, we have to assume his choice is to keep who he has at the ranch. Any illegal action by any person at the ranch now has nothing to do with any Constitutional Militias, as an agreed stand down order has been stated to pull out. From this point on, any conflict started by the people at the ranch rest solely upon those there, and the Bundy’s, and not any of the Constitutional Militias who traveled thousands of miles to protect the Bundy’s.

We, the Constitutional Militias, thank the people of Bunkerville for their support and the way they welcomed us into their community. We thank the Bundy’s for their hospitality while we were there. We wish both the Bundy’s and the Citizens of Nevada good luck with this situation and hope it ends well.

To the Federal Government, I want them to understand this: No Patriot Group or Constitutional Militia involved are deserting the Bundy’s. While we will not support illegal militant groups if they start something, we will return if the Bundy’s are further assaulted or their Constitutional Rights are violated again. Keep in mind that this last response was proportional. If this was a test to measure our strength, it failed miserably; you still do not know the size of the American Patriot movement or its capabilities.

There have been accusations made against people and groups; I personally am seeing that they are looked into. If those accusations are found to be true, they will be dealt with. One of the biggest problems we have had since the beginning is Ryan Payne, with Operation Mutual Aid, trying to sew division. The persons who have created this problem will not be allowed to participate in any of the Constitutional Militia’s areas if conflict occurs. We will not tolerate militants, liars, thieves, infiltrators, provocateurs, or any of the like. Just like the military, there is conflict at times that must be handled, but the correct way is to deal with these problems is in house, and not to air dirty laundry in public. I personally apologize to all who have been exposed to the aforementioned videos; they were very unprofessional, and purposely done to discredit the Constitutional Militias. It makes me wonder about the true intentions of those involved. God Bless America and every one of us who lives here.

Ever Vigilant,
CPT Eric C. Rahn - Commanding
Alpha Co, 423rd Battalion, 28th Field Force
Texas Light Foot Militia

To Jerry's credit, he recently did a wee bit of 'let us look at the big picture, and let bygones be bygones'-mea culpa:

Jerry DeLemus

http://youtu.be/6JWRO4a6MVY
Jason Patrick
Published on May 3, 2014

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Awwww; isn't that soooo cute?

Awwww; isn't that soooo cute? people downvoting those who don't carry the water for Stewart or Oathkeepers, while not responding to any of the objections. Signs of individuals with the justifiable evidence to support their faith.

brah, do stop while you're at it.

stop embarrassing yourself any further, I feel for ya. and saddened, more than anything, at the type of things you're relegated to saying.

click here, for sorta a combined answer to all your separate boxes: http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3398646

- cheerio.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

hey OP - Great work

Thank you for pulling all of this info together. It may be disappointing some people that life is a little more complex than choosing between accusations on a message board.

After 20 minutes I still have a quite a ways to go but look forward to benefiting from the work you-put into this post.

Thank you!

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

ooh my favorite kind: ye grace me with thine attention .o)

pardon, like most of my posts, it really started with the intention of posting just one video, in this case: in a reply to another thread with just the SR/Oath Keepers SitRep, to let those who may not be familir, to which video/series of events depicted in the video, that Stewart & OK were replying to.

then...invariably went into the 'ooooh, that needs that link to better explain, oh and that one needs this...and...and...'

then, this is the mess y'all get ,o)

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

what a helluva post

"Pete Santilli, primary internet radio host on the Rense Network , has been exposed as an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)."

Primary internet radio host on the rense network?
Really what about Rense himself , I consider him the primary, Duke the secondary and best overall.

Pete is a weird fella and can be quite annoying , plus i think he alters his voice with filters over the air. He also loves judy woods explanation for 9/11 which is hogwash.

Duff and VT gang told rense not to have pete on his network , but I think rense likes to go against the grain and have a host which most other networks silence or fire from being on the air from pressure from the real media oligarchs that do exist.

that oathkeeper drone story was hogwash by the way, alex's writers fell for it and posted an article and alex had it removed.

"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL

Another Oathkeeper

Another Oathkeeper dickholder. Rand Paul worked on Ron's campaigns prior to getting elected to the Senate, does that in itself mean that we should just take what he says as the truth?

I like how that one guy in the Oathkeeper video calls himself an Ex-Marine. I've known hundreds of people out of the Corp, and none of them ever called themselves an Ex-Marine; former Marine, but never Ex. Once a Marine always a Marine; ya know. Also, that very same guy admits to having been trained in psyops. Not sure if he would be someone which I would ever trust.

While you regurgitate what Brandon said in the video that Jerry stole the FLiR, Stewart says directly afterward that he gave that one to the Bundy's -most likely with money donated for the Bundy's cause. It was a different unit entirely which disappeared from their vehicle -or so they say.

You seem to appeal to authority and past accomplishments. I've worked with several people who have been in Vietnam. One guy ended-up with his one leg shorter because of a grenade, and guess what? Just because people where in Vietnam doesn't automatically make them in the right, nor does it mean that they know what the hell they are doing.

Stewart went to the Ranch and tried to take-over control which the Bundy's already put in the hands of themselves and then Ryan Payne. You and Stewart can complain all you want, but the Bundy's put Ryan in charge of coordinating the Militias and such.

While listing all of Stewart's credentials you forgot to mention that he was a sculptor before he went to college. His credentials are meaningless. Jesse Benton worked on Dr. Paul's campaigns, should we listen to him?

Also, yes, if someone supposedly volunteers to do something, and they refuse to adhere to the authority(command structure) which was already in place, but they give interviews and such, then they are pointless.

I find the idea of an Oathkeeper to be stupid. One is taking an Oath to abide by the Oath which they took. If and Oath is meaningful, then these people wouldn't find the need to take a second one. If their is nothing preventing breaking of the first Oath, then there is nothing preventing the breaking of the second Oath. It is meaningless. You and the Oathkeepers are trying to tell me, that nothing is wrong with the departments for which active duty Oathkeepers are a part of?

It seems -to me- like a nice way for the upper management to make large sums of money for doing nothing; similar to WWP, VFW, AL, and nearly every other charitable organization.

so... you're fond of "dickholders"?? What the WTC7??

so... you mean you're not in any way being a "dickholder" for Ryan Payne, the NOT-ranger 'ranger' who daydreams publicly about shooting someone in the back of the head, publicly? That, the type of company you want to keep?? xD

You seem to appeal to authority and past accomplishments. I've worked with several people who have been in Vietnam. One guy ended-up with his one leg shorter because of a grenade, and guess what? Just because people where in Vietnam doesn't automatically make them in the right, nor does it mean that they know what the hell they are doing.

'cause apparently you "dickholding" for what is most likely a Fed COINTEL provocateur "Ryan Payne" the NOT-Ranger 'Ranger,' in no way is appealing to au-tho-ri-teh??

Hm...though, come to think of it, I think that'd be kinda of hard for me to 'appeal' to Stewart's "authority" seeing as how I'm like 1000's of miles away, not to mention: it'd be kinda hard to put a yoke on someone who's not gonna let him, and whom philosophically kinda doesn't give a fcuk about anyone attempting to impose their will over him.

Did you by chance catch the "AnCap" part in my DP avatar?? Just sayin'

xD

Now, while I never miss the endless intra-"dickholders" scrambling for attention & meaningless p0wnage over events neither parties were part nor participant of and are 'offended' in the abstract, here at the DailyPaul post-RP2012 & Randpocalypse disarray (which apparently some still haven't grown out of), clearly, you're not qualified to be reading anyone's minds, let alone mine, based on one post, enough to be making a holistic character judgment about people, just because that'd make your world more easier to process for the sake of simplicity, and short attention and dialog-span.

Begs the question: why do you have me on your 'friends' list? I don't have any friends who calls me a dickholder. Though if it's your thang, hey, I'm an AnCap WTF do I care?

xD

so, do you suppose we should have a dialog, or do you want to pat yourself on the back in thinking your view on a group is right about...er, something, and others' are not, just because you got some qualms about them?

if you want an actual dialog, do a mea culpa, then rephrase your frustrations in form of a more neutral non-personal attacky manner, or, I shall simply close with this: you may think calling others whom you disagree with "dickholders" have some offensive meaning, but you ARE being a DICK.

Dickholding is something one may choose to do, but being a dick? Kinda permanent condition.

So shall we discuss, or do you want to be left [dick]-holding your own asinine comments??

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I have already explained why

I have already explained why I added you to My Friends list on DailyPaul. I will say it one more time. I generally like your posts. I added you to my friends list because I can just go to My Profile and I will see if you -or any of my other 'Freinds' had made a post. It is an easy way to keep up-to-date with posts by those whom I generally agree with.

I will say this again. The Bundy's -you know the people who's ranch was under attack- they are the ones who put Ryan in charge. I doubt that they would have put someone in charge which they didn't know or trust.

...whom philosophically kinda doesn't give a fcuk about anyone attempting to impose their will over him.

This is why he doesn't do support operations very well; which is why people shouldn't put much faith in him; maybe if someone wants to give-up control of their own situation, then he might be ok, but I know I sure as hell wouldn't let somebody else be in charge of a situation which would directly effect me if it went wrong.

..just because that'd make your world more easier to process for the sake of simplicity, and short attention and dialog-span.

Is this not a judgement? Oh, so you can do it. I get it now; It's only the wrong thing to do when it is not you doing it.

Yes you've chosen to be Stewart and the Oathkeeper's dickholder. You admit that you don't know them, and yet you appeal to their past works -as if any of that matters, they did take part in statism in the past- as justification to adamantly claim that they are telling the truth and are correct and beyond reproach. That is a dickhold or water carrier -if you prefer; you made the choice.

To also, try to justify your faith of them(Stewart and Oathkeepers)you post about a Marine(maybe former Marine -never ex), which most people also never heard-of, who is probably also an Oathkeeper to corroborate the position of Stewart and the Oathkeepers. Wouldn't that be like the government justifying the actions of the government or police?

go click on the link below:

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3398618

Yes you've chosen to be Stewart and the Oathkeeper's dickholder.

Um, duuuuude, seriously, what's up y'er arse, homie?

whyTF are you such a DICK??

Ok, ok, in celebration of your wordsmithery, let's try this:

Yes, you've chosen to be Ryan Payne & his Lord of Flies cult dickholder.

Yeah. Exactly, equally as simpleton, and dickish.

xD

we can go all night. but really, this is getting tiresome and repetitive.

Seriously, think I've been answering you in reply boxes out of order, but really, I'm gonna have to bid you adieu. I rather save the venom for a real neocon idiot. though lately, I'd rather lay seeds and convert them, than shame or ridicule them. And, I'm certainly not gonna do it in full to a r3VOL.

So you're still a dick and I'm a "dickholder." Whoopie! But remember, the former is permanent, the latter is temporary. Though I'd have said "dildo-fcuker," as it has a bit more 'umph.'

xD

Besides as these things go, it's really more of who keeps on typing longer. Nobody really wins. But, frankly, if you haven't figured out that I can be a bit more biting and creative with my wordplay, you haven't been paying attention, and frankly, pardon, but I'd rather spar with an outright neoCON POS, so I can drop full venom without worrying about hurting his feelings, and I truly do not want to do it, here.

In closing, I truly do bid you adieu, this time.

Cheerio lad ,o)

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

good to see you back, AnCap

:)

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

well hellooooooo there .o)

apparently the dude above you disagrees, though not sure why he added me to his friends list. LOL.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

The reason is because

The reason is because typically I like you posts; however, I think you are just carrying water for Stewart on this one. Also, I added you a long time ago; if that even matters. One would think that I wouldn't need to explain that I can like some -or most- of your posts while disagreeing vehemently with this one. I suppose you think that people must agree on everything if they agree on somethings.LOL. Sorry to break it to you, but nobody agrees with anybody 100% of the time.

think you're doing too many "supposing" and assuming.

I suppose you think that people must agree on everything if they agree on somethings.LOL. Sorry to break it to you, but nobody agrees with anybody 100% of the time.

frankly, it's a long thread; doubt you read it all, from the tenor of your responses so far. it's a bit more nuanced than your answers suggests.

then again, if you dislike OK & SR, for whatever reason, just what makes you think I'm here to convince you otherwise. it matters not to me.

known elements vs not.

Ryan Payne is a "not."

"Ryan" is an idiot who goes around publicly stating that he wants to "put one in the back of the head."

Now, if you actually saw the video that the OK are responding to, which I posted, then you'd know that that is exactly what "Ryan Payne" says.

if anyone here cannot see that is either a Fed COINTELPRO, or just an insecure loudmouthed moron, can't help ya there.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Actually I believe he said

Actually I believe he said they(the Oathkeepers who were retreating/leaving) should be shot in the back -not back of the head- because that is what happens to traitors.

The situation was the Bundy's, and therefore it is their judgement as to who is in-charge. If the Oathkeepers don't like it and don't want to follow orders, then that is their decision, but it looks like they will only cooperate if they're in charge -not many people are going to let strangers be in-charge. They can be in charge when it's their farms, ranches, or properties which are under attack; however, when it is someonelse's, then it is they who are the commander and they create the chain of command, and not Stewart or the Oathkeepers. Maybe the Bundy's know Ryan and trust him, whereas they don't know Stewart; or maybe they do know Stewart.

Also, most of the Militia as well as the Oathkeepers violated what Mr. Bundy asked those who were going to go out there; and that was, to not where camouflage or contractor-type clothing, and also that it wasn't going to be a military operation but a self defense operation and therefore there wasn't going to be pre-emtive tactics like digging trenches going to happen there.

Once one goes through much of what has come out of the Bundy ranch since it started, it appears that Ryan is more in sync with the way which the Bundy's wanted things then Stewart is/was.

Also, Stewart and the Oathkeepers should quit saying that they paid for all of that stuff. While technically they did write the checks, the money didn't come from their treasury from their yearly dues. The money came from donations specifically for the Bundy situation. Also, I'm sure the money which the Oathkeepers spent on their Hotel rooms and steaks was also money which was donated to the Oathkeepers explicitly for the Bundy Ranch. Stewart admitted in the OK video that some of the money donated went to fly Sheriffs into Nevada; I don't think that is what people donated their money for.

You state that Ryan is COINTELPRO, maybe he is, but maybe the Oathkeepersa are. The one Oathkeeper admitted to being psyops. I don't personally know any of them, so I have no intention of adamantly saying that one person is telling the truth over the other. What would you do if the Bundy's came out and supported Ryan's version of events? You would then say that they are lying, because as far as you are concerned the Oathkeepers and Stewart couldn't possibly be lying. You have made-up you mind; I haven't.

oy veh, it's like talking in the wind .o(

Please, do have your say, on whatever note you want.

Frankly, I'm tired of line by line rebutting questions and hypotheticals asked in the abstract, especially to a guy who wasn't even there, talking as if he were, or whatever blogs he was reading was the only story that matters, while hilariously questioning whether his 'opposition' is letting his own bias/'faith' about an unknown individual cloud his judgment, all the while, as you yourself are doing that same exact thing, without an ounce of self-reflective irony. But alas, I shall, once more...with a feeling! yay??

As for the off-timed answers ('Did you answer this? no? yes? I did! No you didn't! but...but...but...I did...in the other reply box! Oh. Derp.'), we are probably answering the reply boxes, out of order, equivalent to 'phone-tagging' LOL.

By the way, in my experience, often the whole "you're never an ex-marine"-thing is what a non-marine says to appeal to statist symbolism identifiers. just because an actual marine says it in passing, doesn't mean he wasn't. you sound like those who are always anal about/'correcting' like: "oooh oh oh oh, no no no no: they're not soldiers, they're marines! sailors! airmen! blah blah blah. there's a distinction!"

you're right. you win...something.

xD

Tell you what: if that's a 'sign' to you that he's lying about being a marine, go call him up, write a letter demanding his proof of enlistment papers, start a campaign, demand, shame him into admitting. I frankly don't care.

Oh and the best part: he was in PsyOps... so he IS PsyOps!

The one Oathkeeper admitted to being psyops.

Logic! Yay!

xD

Well, technically Ed Snowden was in PsyOps (be it primary, or tertiary intel simply used as active psyops or latent psyops left in nodes), both when he applied for SOF, then at CIA, at NSA, then as contractor.

As were Tosh Plumlee. John Perkins. Ray McGovern. Philip Giraldi. Anthony Shaffer. Steve Pieczenik. For that matter, anyone who worked in intel, be they active or retired 'WhiteHat' or 'Black/DarkHat.'

Sure. Why not: dismiss them all as psyops, 'cause as you know, when a former insider exposes something he found while working inside, he does that without ever having worked in it.

makes perfect sense.

xD

I do find it interesting that you haven't bothered to answer my question to you about an alternative plan: can you do what SR/OK's stated mission were, but fell short (in your POV)??

Answer that, then I'll assume you respect others' opinions, enough for a 2-way dialog.

But if not, that's okay too.

General question though: to any of y'all here wondering why many long time RP2008 DailyPaul members aren't returning here, besides the usual array of personal, schedule conflicts, jobs/work/family/life, etc., ever ask yourselves why they aren't??

It's because y'all are dickering here, bickering with each other with venom you frankly should reserve for neoCons, as if you're actually 'winning' something, by raising what you think are pertinent minutia...over what literally amounts to nothing.

But really, let's face it, none of this matters to you, deep down, as you pretend to be 'outraged'-sorta.

What is ever clearer now, is that it's obvious that you haven't seen any one of the numerous video links above in full, or at least with full comprehension. Some of your own questions are self-explanatory, if you actually bothered to pay attention, and saw/read all the above linked articles, and videos.

It's clear your mind's already made up. That's fine, too. It matters not to me, in the least.

As for:

What would you do if the Bundy's came out and supported Ryan's version of events? You would then say that they are lying, because as far as you are concerned the Oathkeepers and Stewart couldn't possibly be lying. You have made-up you mind; I haven't.

What would I do? Absolutely nothing.

LOLOLOLOL!!!

What if the Bundys don't? Ohhooooo. What would YOU do?? Huh? Huh? Huh?

xD

I'm pretty certain Cliven doesn't know everything that goes on, among hundreds of strangers who amassed there at or near his ranch, nor all the dramas, and interplay.

Now, as for the elderly Vietnam vet: would a man with shrapnel stuck in his body, with a heart condition, risk medical complications, go all the way out there, only to lie, and/or be lied to, about nearly getting killed by an idiot, for no reason, unless he's been a previously proven liar?

Seeing as how we're both 3rd party observers, given the option, who's testimony would you weigh more?

As such, Mike Vanderboegh's account backing up much of SR/OK's claims faaaaaar outweigh anything Ryan Payne has to say. As the latter has nowhere near the level of established credibility that SR/OK or Vanderboegh has.

And brah, no, really? Really really?? "You have made-up you mind; I haven't."

Do you even read your own stuff??

xD

You sure sound like a person with equally biased opinions, to me...and pretty much to anyone else with English reading comprehension skills above a 5yo's.

LOL. If you sincerely don't see that, you really should have someone else read it out loud back to you. Just so that you can actually, literally hear how ridiculous your assertions sound, when you're literally assuming the exact same thing.

Also, you'd know this if you really watched the video in full: SR and OK were NEVER the primary security. And Vanderboegh verified it as much: there were layers of security. There were no tight coordinated command-hierchy consistent among everyone who were there. -- you'd know that, if you read his testimony I/Stonewall linked

SR/OK let Cliven and his sons know of the situation as they understand it, and situations in which they would be returning. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that that is indeed what transpired, until proven otherwise.

So apparently, you think this is sign of good leadership, with no command structure hierarchy??

Actually I believe he said they(the Oathkeepers who were retreating/leaving) should be shot in the back -not back of the head- because that is what happens to traitors.

Setting that aside, going back to the primary focus and the impetus for this thread, was regarding the recent rumors of rift/drama between OK and the two main factions of Militiamen: Ryan & Jerry's; the 'Lord of Flies' circle yap contentions, and the OK's counterpoints.

I 'get' that it's a long thread, and unless you're a speed reader, you won't read or watch (VLC at 3X after downloading YT vids does one wonders in timesaving), enough to be able to answer honestly. But, I would appreciate it, if you'd reply, after you watched and read the things the author is actually talking about, if you actually want to have a discussion relevant to the issues at hand.

Otherwise, it's a one-way convo.

Really, your following statement tells me everything there is to know about one's info/disinfo discernment skills:

Also, Stewart and the Oathkeepers should quit saying that they paid for all of that stuff. While technically they did write the checks, the money didn't come from their treasury from their yearly dues. The money came from donations specifically for the Bundy situation. Also, I'm sure the money which the Oathkeepers spent on their Hotel rooms and steaks was also money which was donated to the Oathkeepers explicitly for the Bundy Ranch. Stewart admitted in the OK video that some of the money donated went to fly Sheriffs into Nevada; I don't think that is what people donated their money for.

Apparently, you admit that you know nothing about Ryan Payne, yet everything you're saying here, you may as well be their PR person. Somehow, when I link to articles/vids to support my points, I'm just "carrying their water," but when you're literally regurgitating Ryan Payne's views/contentions/assertions, somehow you're not being his PR rep??

xD

You may actually want to read, about the conditions in which people volunteered to donate to the Oath Keepers for this effort: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/04/17/ongoing-support-neede...

This will be a long struggle. The BLM and Harry Reid have stated that it is not over. We Oath Keepers plan on being there as long as it takes. Elias Alias, our Editor and Board member, is on his way to the Bundy Ranch today, for an extended stay. He’s 67 years old, and a Vietnam Vet, who still heeds the call of freedom.

Men and women, from all corners of the nation, are rotating in and out of the Bundy Ranch. While they are there, they need our support. If you are going there yourself, please consider bringing extra supplies, such as the above. If you want to support our efforts with financial contributions, ($$$$), Use the form below:

1. It's clearly stated what they intend to do there.
2. The plea for donation is clear "if you want to support OUR EFFORTS"...as in the $$ will go towards the things they stated that they intend to do there, for "as long as it takes." They still have people and equipment down there.

"Stewart admitted in the OK video that some of the money donated went to fly Sheriffs into Nevada; I don't think that is what people donated their money for." -- you don't think that, because you don't know nor read their actual donation page...something those donating would've seen. Flying oath keepers out there/ie mobilizing bodies: whyTF wouldn't that be part of "our efforts"??

The Bundys have their own legal fund on their official page.

NOT once did Stewart & OK pretend that the donations would directly be going to or meant for the Bundys, as you're clearly, presumptuously, baselessly alluding.

It'd be like if you and I needed to travel together (it's a hypothetical, calm yourself. lol) 2000 miles to the 2012 RNC R3VOLution Concert in Tampa, FL, but primarily so that we can volunteer to help out with the event organizer of the concert because we promised them. And, say we needed money for gas/food/lodging, so we created a donation page. Now, would we be 'stealing money meant for the concert organizers'??

My man, frankly everything beyond your 'dickholder' QWERTY, was downhill for you, seeing as how I've yet to see a mea culpa.

But still, I tried to see where you're coming from, but all your answers and lack of info/disinfo discernment skills leave a lot to be desired.

With that said, any more would be redundant and circulatory,

I bid you a kind adieu.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

While I'm not going to go

While I'm not going to go point-by-point, for it is a waste of time, I will address some of your issues.

As for the Marine thing, I don't know many civilians who claim to have been Marines. I know former Marines who have stated Once a Marine Always a Marine. If you think that is some-kind of jingoistic BS, then that is fine, but why is it not jingoistic BS when someone claims to have been in the Military as a form of accreditation?

Tell you what: if that's a 'sign' to you that he's lying about being a marine, go call him up, write a letter demanding his proof of enlistment papers, start a campaign, demand, shame him into admitting. I frankly don't care.

I actually don't care enough to bother with him, nor do I care if he is lying; it doesn't really matter to me. I was just pointing out my observations. You state it doesn't matter to you what I say, but you launch a tirade about what I've stated; makes one wonder.

If you knew what Psyops is then you would know that an Intelligence Analyst isn't Psyops. Besides Snowden you mistaken John Perkins for Psyops; one must question the legitimacy of any of your other claims, if you do not know that Snowden and Perkins were not Psyops. I don't remember what McGovern's duties were, and I don't remember hearing about the others. However, Snowden and Perkins were not Psyops.

I do find it interesting that you haven't bothered to answer my question to you about an alternative plan: can you do what SR/OK's stated mission were, but fell short (in your POV)??

I could likewise claim that you have yet to give actual justification of Stewart's and the Oathkeepers documented actions. However, to answer your question, I don't believe in top down structures in such manner for anything other than training, because as a command structure approaches non-existence then the resilience of the organization approaches 100%. The problem with organization which rely heavily on Command Structure(The Oathkeepers) is that once member of that structure disappear, the larger group becomes less effective due to some of the larger group being depended on orders.

Stewart and well as the ThreePers and such rely heavily on a uncompromising Command Structure, due to the 'Leaders' -tin-pot dictators- wanting to feel important, which makes the larger organization weaker because of it.

Your temper-tantrum about the DailyPaul has nothing to do with what was being discussed; please stick to the topic at hand, won't you. Furthermore, you have only been a member hear since 2012 several months after I myself joined here. SO why make claims about the '08 people. You have no idea why they are no longer posting here. There were several which were very ardent posters in 2012 which left in favor of the Venus Project, and then there were many young people who as their lives took-hold, left; and then there were those who were banned. There are many different reasons why certain members aren't here.

But really, let's face it, none of this matters to you, deep down, as you pretend to be 'outraged'-sorta.

I never pretended to be outraged. Not sure what you are talking about.

What is ever clearer now, is that it's obvious that you haven't seen any one of the numerous video links above in full, or at least with full comprehension. Some of your own questions are self-explanatory, if you actually bothered to pay attention, and saw/read all the above linked articles, and videos.

I watched the videos -which weren't previously posted- after you posted them; the OK video and the Militia video I watched when the were first posted.

I as well read the articles. You post supportin gapinion of the Oathkeepers by those who are either Oathkeepers themselves or are in a mutually beneficial relationship with the Oathkeepers; and you think that is evidence that the Oathkeepers are telling the truth.

James Yeager only went to the Bundy Ranch for documentation purposes as he stated in a diffeernt video. He himself does a lot of promotion for the Oathkeepers. SissyStreat -or whatever it's called- the creators of 3%ers/3pers/ThreePers also benefit greatly by their association with the Oathkeepers; why would they say anything bad about them. Like the guy at SissyStreat said he wouldn't even call-out the Oathkeepers when then wouldn't support the march in Virginia; I wonder why?

You appeal to authority too much.

It's clear your mind's already made up. That's fine, too. It matters not to me, in the least.

Seriously? You are the individual who won't even entertain the idea that the Oathkeepers are in the wrong; but I'm the one who has their mind made up?

As for:

What would you do if the Bundy's came out and supported Ryan's version of events? You would then say that they are lying, because as far as you are concerned the Oathkeepers and Stewart couldn't possibly be lying. You have made-up you mind; I haven't.

What would I do? Absolutely nothing.

LOLOLOLOL!!!

What if the Bundys don't? Ohhooooo. What would YOU do?? Huh? Huh? Huh?

Are you becoming schizophrenic; this makes no sense. If the Bundy's corroborate the Oathkeepers it doesn't matter to me, since I'm not taking the side of the Militia; however, if the Bundy's do not corroborate the Oathkeepers but corroborate the Militia, then your intelligence must be questioned, since you refused to even think that your position might be wrong, and spent all of this time trying to legitimize people whom you have already stated you don't know other than their internet presence.

I'm pretty certain Cliven doesn't know everything that goes on, among hundreds of strangers who amassed there at or near his ranch, nor all the dramas, and interplay.

Of course he doesn't, however He did leave Ryan in charge of that under his(Cliven's) family. That is what Stewart and the Oathkeepers have a problem with that Cliven didn't grant them the authority to control/organize/boss around the volunteers.

As such, Mike Vanderboegh's account backing up much of SR/OK's claims faaaaaar outweigh anything Ryan Payne has to say. As the latter has nowhere near the level of established credibility that SR/OK or Vanderboegh has.

As I stated earlier, the SissyStreater's/3per's have a mutually beneficial relationship with the Oathkeepers. They each support the other(s) organization; why would Mike, turn on Stewart now, when he didn't when Stewart wouldn't support the Virginia march?

You sure sound like a person with equally biased opinions, to me...and pretty much to anyone else with English reading comprehension skills above a 5yo's.

This coming from an individual who refuses adamantly that Stewart and the Oathkeepers could be lying; how rich.LOL.

Speaking of Oathkeepers. Do they realize that the Federal Constitution only applies to Federal Territories and Washington DC, right? Technically it should also be applicable on Military Bases, but the Constitution got violated when the US Government decided to use Military Tribunals instead. These Oathkeepers also realize that 97% of all laws on the books violate their State Constitutions, as well as the Federal Constitution; I wonder would they ticket a person without a license Plate? What about a Driver's License? Would these guys -who are still in Law Enforcement- arrest somebody for possession of narcotics; the outlawing of drugs violates the Federal and State Constitutions.

So apparently, you think this is sign of good leadership, with no command structure hierarchy??

When people know what needs to be done -if shot at, shoot back, setup a perimeter, patrol perimeter- nobody needs someone to tell them what to do. This is how Militias, and asymmetrical forces operate, due to the greater range of operations which could be handled with a much smaller force.

Also, Anarchy if 'without rulers.' Sure, people could voluntarily accept rulers, but I highly doubt that many people will fall into that category.

...Ryan & Jerry's; the 'Lord of Flies' circle yap contentions...

Seriously? You prefer strangers coming together and just bowing down to one person -Stewart Rhodes- but if strangers come together and create their own structure, that is bad. I have no idea where you've been but you have certainly started sounding more like a statist. One needs to giver up freedom to have security; certainly seems to be what you are suggesting. I don't know many people who are just going to let some media personality come in and take over. If that is what the Oathkeepers need, then I don't see them as being very influential in the future. With this kind of attitude, it appears that none of the Command Structure of the Oathkeepers has ever actually worked with small forces in foreign countries. It also suggest that the Psyops guy doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Has he never heard of leading from behind. It is a tactic whereby the US force convinces -subtly- a foreign force to do certain things while the foreign force thinks it was all their idea from the start.

Really, your following statement tells me everything there is to know about one's info/disinfo discernment skills:

It was Stewart on InforWars saying that the Oathkeepers provided all kinds of stuff; which is not actually truthful, since the money was donated to Oathkeepers to provide such things and more.

Apparently, you admit that you know nothing about Ryan Payne, yet everything you're saying here, you may as well be their PR person. Somehow, when I link to articles/vids to support my points, I'm just "carrying their water," but when you're literally regurgitating Ryan Payne's views/contentions/assertions, somehow you're not being his PR rep??

Because people agree on facts, I should be their(the Militia's) PR person. Stewart has said that the Oathkeepers provided that stuff; that wasn't actually true. In the OK video which you posted Brandon accuses either Jerry or one of Cliven's sons of stealing a FLiR unit by refusing to give it back. Stewart later says that he gave it to the Bundy's. There have been many other unsubstantiated claims by the Oathkeepers and the only people who claim to verify the OK's perspective are people who have a mutually beneficial relationship with the OKers.

you don't think that, because you don't know nor read their actual donation page...something those donating would've seen. Flying oath keepers out there/ie mobilizing bodies: whyTF wouldn't that be part of "our efforts"??

When people donate to ship OKers to Bundy ranch I highly doubt that their money was going to ship Sheriffs there for a day or two, to giver a speech make a press release and for these guests to stay at a hotel and eat steak and then fly home. I'm pretty sure that when people donated to help OKers get to the Bundy Ranch that they(the donators) thought it would be to ship armed people -who would- stand-up to the BLM.

My man, frankly everything beyond your 'dickholder' QWERTY, was downhill for you, seeing as how I've yet to see a mea culpa.

You have yet to actually adequately justify the OKers behavior at the Bundy Ranch. The only people who say anything good about them -who were there- are those with a mutually beneficial relationship with the OKers. I'm not sure how you think using friends of an organization to justify the organization is legitimate, however, that certainly is what all of your statements in favor of them(OKers) does.

I will say this: Stewart Rhodes, The Oathkeepers, and Sheriff Mack have done far more harm than good; not only to themselves but to their organizations and to any real movement which wast starting to show itself at the Bundy Ranch. Put women and children in front.

ya got me, coppa, ya 'win'

...something.

xD

Yes, talk about a schizo "tamper tantrum;" this has got to be the longest "while I'm not going to go point-by-point, for it is a waste of time, I will address some of your issues.", like EVA! LOL!!!

Now, I gotta update my dictionary, for what "some" means xD

Those aren't "some;" those are wasted time spent on ameliorating your insecure ego and for the sake of having the last say...'cause apparently that's your raison d'être.

You know, I have no reason to want to be arguing with any r3VOL let alone a DP member, especially at these base levels.

But for reference, you may want to look in the mirror and work on some netiquette; as stated before, everything you said after "dickholder" was/is pretty pointless.

For any sane, alert, intelligent, sincere, acute 3rd party geopolitical observer, it's utterly self-evident that I've been more than patient to you, an asshole who literally opened up the 'conversation' accusing me of being a "dickholder."

Here's the main reason why I don't find you worthy of my time, nor intelligent discussion; you actually said the following, without a scintilla of irony:

If you knew what Psyops is then you would know that an Intelligence Analyst isn't Psyops. Besides Snowden you mistaken John Perkins for Psyops; one must question the legitimacy of any of your other claims, if you do not know that Snowden and Perkins were not Psyops. I don't remember what McGovern's duties were, and I don't remember hearing about the others. However, Snowden and Perkins were not Psyops.

in reply to the following rhetoric, which you clearly didn't comprehend what was actually said:

"Well, technically Ed Snowden was in PsyOps (be it primary, or tertiary intel simply used as active psyops or latent psyops left in nodes), both when he applied for SOF, then at CIA, at NSA, then as contractor."

"As were Tosh Plumlee. John Perkins. Ray McGovern. Philip Giraldi. Anthony Shaffer. Steve Pieczenik. For that matter, anyone who worked in intel, be they active or retired 'WhiteHat' or 'Black/DarkHat.'"

"Sure. Why not: dismiss them all as psyops, 'cause as you know, when a former insider exposes something he found while working inside, he does that without ever having worked in it."

"makes perfect sense."

You need intel, TO make PsyOps work; clearly, you have no fcucking clue WTF was said here:

be it primary, or tertiary intel simply used as active psyops or latent psyops left in nodes

Psst. Hint, keywords: "tertiary" and "latent...left in nodes."

Last thing I want to do is talk to a DP member this way. But clearly, you're DICK, who doesn't know he is one, who actually deludes what he's doing by biotching, ranting, and whining, while accusing others of doing just that, is actually "accomplishing" something 'more worthy' than physical, nationwide activism of the likes of Stewart Rhodes/OK & Mack et al.

What more is there to say?? The more you type, the more you keep embarrassing yourself.

I'm sincerely saddened that the crucible of post-RP2012 and Randpocalypse disarray has filtered out most of the articulate, kind, sincere, beautiful individuals, and left DP muddled with the z-brigade of incessant whiners like yourself, who'd rather trash and viciously argue and put-down for put-down-sakes vs their fellow R3VOL DailyPaul members here, than drop full venom vs statist fascist neoCons & L vs R-stuck 'librals,' or even better: lay seeds, and convert.

I'm truly more saddened by your level of idiocy, and insecure obnoxiousness, than 'angry' or pissed, or annoyed, etc.

With that said, you can have your infinite last says. Me done on this thread with ya. Ya got me. Ya 'won.'

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Some means "not every,"

Some means "not every," insofar as that I wasn't going to address every allegation or point which you were trying to make in your previous comment. Guess what? I didn't address everything which you were yammering about in the previous comment.

If you think that an Intelligence Analyst is a Psyop operative, or if you think that John Perkins was Psyops, then that is your problems that you don't know what a Psyops operative does or what Psyops actually is. I stated that I couldn't comment on the others because I am unfamiliar with them.

So an Intelligence analyst or aggregate is Psyops? Are you F&^king kidding me?

Are you ever going to address any of my objections against the Oathkeepers or are you just going to point me to videos and blogs by people who benefit from the Oathkeepers?

What Constitution are they affirming their Oath's to? Do they know the jurisdiction of the Federal Constitution?

Have they ever arrested anybody for violating a law, which happens to be unconstitutional: like drugs, or dui/dwi. Have any of them written a ticket or tickets to people who violated laws which are unconstitutional, like:speeding, uninsured, expired emissions or inspection stickers, no license plate or expired tags? Are you saying that these Oathkeepers -the ones who are still LEOs- don't do any of those things?

Are you going to have a discussion or are you just going to throw a temper tantrum because I don't automatically fall at the feet of Stewart like you do?

I could go on and on, but I highly doubt that you are going to answer any of my questions or objections. If I'm lucky you might try to insult me.YAY. Maybe you will complain about the DailyPaul post-RP2012 and Randpocalypse.OOOh

some, actually means an "unspecified amount or number"

but, that was referenced rhetorically, in a not so hardy har har, which apparently you didn't 'get,' either. but no matter. it's all gut.

that said, seeing as how you clearly have reading comprehension issues, and don't quite get rhetorical narrative, I will address/try to clarify one point repeatedly cited by you, that if you actually understood what was being said before you, you'd already know that your presumptuous characterization was/is erroneous.

If you think that an Intelligence Analyst is a Psyop operative, or if you think that John Perkins was Psyops, then that is your problems that you don't know what a Psyops operative does or what Psyops actually is. I stated that I couldn't comment on the others because I am unfamiliar with them.

So an Intelligence analyst or aggregate is Psyops? Are you F&^king kidding me?

See if you actually understand what I was saying here:

"Well, technically Ed Snowden was in PsyOps (be it primary, or tertiary intel simply used as active psyops or latent psyops left in nodes), both when he applied for SOF, then at CIA, at NSA, then as contractor."

"As were Tosh Plumlee. John Perkins. Ray McGovern. Philip Giraldi. Anthony Shaffer. Steve Pieczenik. For that matter, anyone who worked in intel, be they active or retired 'WhiteHat' or 'Black/DarkHat.'"

"Sure. Why not: dismiss them all as psyops, 'cause as you know, when a former insider exposes something he found while working inside, he does that without ever having worked in it."

"makes perfect sense."

You need intel, TO make PsyOps work; clearly, you have no fcucking clue WTF was said here:

be it primary, or tertiary intel simply used as active psyops or latent psyops left in nodes

Psst. Hint, keywords: "tertiary" and "latent...left in nodes."

I said "intel;" never equated nor conflated by description nor function a "PsyOps operative" with an "Intel Analyst."

Remember, don't assume/presume to know what you think the other side is saying.

I'm making the self-evident point that, IF you/the state/unit are going to conduct Psy-Ops, you need intel...which you get/insert/disperse/obfuscate from people info amassed/produced/interfered from the likes of Snowden, etc. And, when someone like John 'Confessions of Economic Hitman' Perkins is deployed as a chief economist of an Alphabet's front company, ponying up phony numbers to the vassal state to conquer/overleverage loan 'guarantees'/debts, um...just what part of a larger plan do you think he just became part of, whether he presented those numbers to the likes of Jaime Roldós Aguilera, knowingly or unknowingly??

PsyOps just means psychological operations. But it can emcompass, dispersion, insertion, obfuscation of military movements, positions, intel, faulty econ numbers, media propaganda, etc.

Beyond that, if you actually read the last reply, it was to tell you, no: because you don't quite 'get' what I'm talking about, and seeing your repeated attempt at pushing your misunderstood presumptive points, as if those were the points that I was making, while you presenting them in a dickish fashion, with very little tact, and doubling down on "dickholder" commentary, without even a sign of apology, THAT would be why I see no need, or see you worthy of conversing with.

capice?

So, you're gonna have to seek elsewhere...to compensate, for whatever.

- cheerio.

PS. in case last reply box wasn't clear, yes, this would be my way of saying: Buh Bye, cordially, to you ,o)

Doh! I did say you could "have your infinite last says."

Pardon: carry on!

But, yeah, it's Friday. Been fun; less than filling, but what the hell, eh? LOL. Carry on chap!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

updated

UPDATE 1: Mike Vanderboegh is O.G. RP patriot movement remnant and a 3%er's 1st hand account: Don't forget to sleep. Jerry is the head of "The Fruits and Nuts Brigade." And, Ryan Payne is most likely a Fed COINTELPRO!

H/T: Stonewall Jackson

"There is no teacher but the enemy." The Bundy Ranch Federally-Sponsored Cluster Coitus: Oath Keepers makes their case. My experiences and thoughts.

My final conclusion is that if Oath Keepers is guilty of anything it is that they were too trusting, too helpful and too eager to make peace with people who obviously had their own agendas, some simple thievery and others in service to their federal masters.

Mike Vanderboegh, aka "Dutchman6"
Thursday, May 1, 2014, 5:57 AM

"There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will ever tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you when he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -- Mazer Rackham to Ender Wiggin in Ender's Game.

Oath Keepers makes their case of their actions and reactions at the Bundy Ranch in this video. It is necessarily long, reflecting as it does the testimony of five participants and a discussion of how they came to the decisions that they did. That said, it is worth watching all the way through. Please do that now and then return for my comments.

Smear vs. Stewart Rhodes dispelled:

It is also important to recall that Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers board and I have not always seen eye to eye on some things. You may recall that OK at first committed to support, and then pulled out of, the armed march in Northern Virginia back in 2010. At the time there were those who wanted me to -- no, URGED me to -- loudly denounce Oath Keepers in general and Stewart Rhodes in particular for that decision. I did not not do so. I have long had a policy, dating from my work with the constitutional militia in the 90s, that I do not shoot my own side's wounded. I'm glad I had that policy, for Stewart Rhodes has come a long way since those days as a leader and the Oath Keepers are a valuable force in the fight for liberty. Those who accused Stewart then of being a coward did not see him later risk arrest last year at the hands of the Lexington, MA, police force when he refused their order to stay off the green and told them they would have to arrest him to stop him from administering the oath ceremony there. The Lexington PD, gritted their teeth and blinked, allowing the ceremony to go forward. That was entirely Stewart's doing. No, in my experience, Stewart Rhodes is no coward.

yup. know your friends and foe...and the inbetween with a few screws missing:

Between the "scouts out" of the Oath Keepers and the camp containing Jerry's CP was the "lower camp" (actually the first militia presence that the press and public saw) of what was dubbed "The Fruits and Nuts Brigade." These were people who were not trusted by the other more competent formations, or did not themselves trust the other formations. These people were, in the main, excitable, prickly and resentful -- and ever ready to talk to the press. There was literally nothing the other formations could do about, or with, them, so they pretty much did a great job of representing the worst face of the Bundy defense operation and the militia to the press. They were often the source of unfounded rumors and dangerous weapon handling. One night they almost started the next American civil war by getting spooked by the arrival of six Las Vegas metro cars traveling in fast convoy down the public road that led to the Bundys. Some of them arranged themselves in a hasty ambush and were only persuaded not to fire first by the intervention of cooler heads who were staying down there. Like I said, "Fruits and Nuts" -- and a constant source of trouble.

There seems to be a consensus about "Ryan Payne" by known Freedom Movement activists & O.G. militia: Ryan is likely a Fed COINTELPRO

But this business of allying with the same guy -- a likely federal provocateur -- who tried to displace you at your job, and lying by omission and commission about Oath Keepers and the whole drone strike business at a joint presser with the same moke who stuck several knives in your back is inexplicable to me. One of the ploys of a sociopath or a provocateur is to shrink your perceived universe and get you reacting to him and his artificial constructs without reference to outside reality. At such moments you have to be able to have the presence of mind to step back out of the box that he has created for you so you can see the whole picture. It is evident to me that Ryan Payne (or whatever his real name is) is an expert at that trick. On my last day, the moke tried provoking me and I finally blew him off with the comment, "Well, like Grandpa Vanderboegh said, 'Don't try to to teach your Grandma how to suck eggs." He thought I was joking and broke off the engagement. I wasn't joking. This ain't my first rodeo and I ran into pukes like him all the time in the 90s. I am convinced that if there had been more Bob Wrights at the event and fewer wide-eyed newbies a lot of this debacle would not have happened.

There seems to be a consensus about "Ryan Payne" by known Freedom Movement activists & O.G. militia: Ryan is likely a Fed COINTELPRO

But this business of allying with the same guy -- a likely federal provocateur -- who tried to displace you at your job, and lying by omission and commission about Oath Keepers and the whole drone strike business at a joint presser with the same moke who stuck several knives in your back is inexplicable to me. One of the ploys of a sociopath or a provocateur is to shrink your perceived universe and get you reacting to him and his artificial constructs without reference to outside reality. At such moments you have to be able to have the presence of mind to step back out of the box that he has created for you so you can see the whole picture. It is evident to me that Ryan Payne (or whatever his real name is) is an expert at that trick. On my last day, the moke tried provoking me and I finally blew him off with the comment, "Well, like Grandpa Vanderboegh said, 'Don't try to to teach your Grandma how to suck eggs." He thought I was joking and broke off the engagement. I wasn't joking. This ain't my first rodeo and I ran into pukes like him all the time in the 90s. I am convinced that if there had been more Bob Wrights at the event and fewer wide-eyed newbies a lot of this debacle would not have happened.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

thanks SJ; will be updating .o)

Mike Vanderboegh is O.G. RP patriot movement remnant, baby!

Yup. Known entity vs. not:

It is also important to recall that Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers board and I have not always seen eye to eye on some things. You may recall that OK at first committed to support, and then pulled out of, the armed march in Northern Virginia back in 2010. At the time there were those who wanted me to -- no, URGED me to -- loudly denounce Oath Keepers in general and Stewart Rhodes in particular for that decision. I did not not do so. I have long had a policy, dating from my work with the constitutional militia in the 90s, that I do not shoot my own side's wounded. I'm glad I had that policy, for Stewart Rhodes has come a long way since those days as a leader and the Oath Keepers are a valuable force in the fight for liberty. Those who accused Stewart then of being a coward did not see him later risk arrest last year at the hands of the Lexington, MA, police force when he refused their order to stay off the green and told them they would have to arrest him to stop him from administering the oath ceremony there. The Lexington PD, gritted their teeth and blinked, allowing the ceremony to go forward. That was entirely Stewart's doing. No, in my experience, Stewart Rhodes is no coward.

yup. know your friends and foe...and the inbetween with a few screws missing:

Between the "scouts out" of the Oath Keepers and the camp containing Jerry's CP was the "lower camp" (actually the first militia presence that the press and public saw) of what was dubbed "The Fruits and Nuts Brigade." These were people who were not trusted by the other more competent formations, or did not themselves trust the other formations. These people were, in the main, excitable, prickly and resentful -- and ever ready to talk to the press. There was literally nothing the other formations could do about, or with, them, so they pretty much did a great job of representing the worst face of the Bundy defense operation and the militia to the press. They were often the source of unfounded rumors and dangerous weapon handling. One night they almost started the next American civil war by getting spooked by the arrival of six Las Vegas metro cars traveling in fast convoy down the public road that led to the Bundys. Some of them arranged themselves in a hasty ambush and were only persuaded not to fire first by the intervention of cooler heads who were staying down there. Like I said, "Fruits and Nuts" -- and a constant source of trouble.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Yeah, gotta love the

yup.o)

pretty much guessed that's what transpired, but it's great to have additional accounts from a long vetted blogger like the Dutchman, recounting what he directly saw.

Can't believe those fcukers had the nerve to steal those expensive FLIR units (granted there are sub $500 models and not sure which model the OK had, but still: it's truly despicable, especially when they're crucial to night time OPSEC) among other things.

Though, seeing as how there will be more future BundyRanches, hope the Good Guys learned a valuable lesson. Much wisdom to be gained in that post; thanks for the find.o)

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Stewart said he gave one to

Stewart said he gave one to the Bundy's. Maybe you should get all of your information straight, before you make accusations. Also, you have to take Stewart's word that one was stolen. Maybe one of his guys just took it to a pawn shop, or maybe they didn't even have it to begin with.

maybe you weren't there and you're assuming your

favored blog posts have bigger ones than SR & OK.

WTF do I care?

Maybe you're an alien who leaped wormholes and took off with the FLIR unit. whoTF knows?

yeah. exactly. maybe you should run a full ad campaign on how much you really really really really really hate SR & OK?

So why do you take it upon yourself to rollout a hate-campaign vs SR & OK?

They do something to you personally?

Tell you what: if you sincerely believe in their stated mission, but sincerely believe that they're lacking in principles and leadership and executions of their mission statement, why don't YOU start your own nationwide organization, that will be a 1000x more influential and effective than the Oath Keepers?

Got a plan to do that? Then, let us see what you want to propose.

If really sincere, perhaps some here will be willing to support you, financially, morally, spiritually, volunteer time/skills/etc.

You know, if anyone's ever run, built, created any business, they can tell when someone's a doer, and or a complainer, or a helper, or a destroyer of others' efforts.

Which are you?

Do YOU have an alternative plan? Please share.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

SR and OK did something to me

Do you have a PACER account? You can read my court records. I can prove Stewart is a phony pony, full of bologna!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Bring it Ira

How else do we get out of these anecdotals and "he said she said"? I don't have PACER or Lexis-Nexis or any other research subscription that costs tens of thousands. I'm guessing not many of us do. So. You have records which make a point. Can we see them?

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Yes,

as I just said to Ancap below, I'll put something together. I was hoping a lawyer here would want to see them. PACER is not expensive, most lawyers and some paralegals have it. When I get some free time to focus on this I'll write something up and post it here.

This is not a he said she said situation, it will be court record.

Funny thing is Stewart is a DP member and he's surprisingly quiet. I've seen him post here before...

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown