6 votes

Adam Kokesh slams Rand Paul and Business insider.

Calling it likes he sees it.


http://youtu.be/viMm9Q9xTJE

I agree with Adam, personally. What do you think?



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Anyone can sit behind a microphone and complain.

The hard part is actually finding a better solution.

Is Rand perfect...? No! but he's the best damn chance any of us have had to have a liberty minded president in our lifetimes thus far.

What is Adam attempting to accomplish by bad mouthing Rand (other than higher click counts)? Who does he see as a better option? Gary Johnson? LOL! He's just a liberal who calls himself a libertarian to be different.

My suggestion for anyone who hates Rand is to find us a better option and talk up that person instead of cutting down Rand when he's the best option we have.

Until then, I'm tuning this loser nonsense out. Because all it will lead to is another super liberal or super conservative president which as we all know means we all lose.

Rand Paul, libertarians and voting...The Best of a Bad Lot?

All of the shortcomings of Rand Paul cited in AK's video are well taken, but how are they unique to him? Other GOP politicians are just as-if not more-fanatical in their demands for overseas military intervention, with NO opposition to government domination of the economy, no opposition to civil liberties outrages, and no real support for the Constitution in areas from Gun Control to State sovereignty and interposition.

He is the best of a bad-VERY BAD-lot, and should be understood in that light. The closer he gets to the nomination, the more loudly his critics MUST criticize his lapses and flip flops, since the pressure increases exponentially as the candidate gets closer to the Oval Office.

Of course, once he is inaugurated, the struggle for liberty REALLY BEGINS! His policies (and even speeches, appointments, and favors) must be closely scrutinized-especially by supporters-and praised when he is right, and roundly attacked when he is wrong.

If we don't, nobody else will!

Adam Kokesh did a wonderful thing by reminding libertarians (and freedom-leaning conservatives) about Rand Paul's shortcomings. His supporters are also doing important work by encouraging him-and likeminded politicians and journalists everywhere-that there IS a "constituency of liberty" which is growing daily, and whose votes and words MUST BE heeded.

In the absence of anybody better, STAND WITH RAND!

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi

never watched the video!!!

never watched the video!!! but if adam thinks Rand needs to do more PATRIOTIC stuff like holding a shotgun in freedom plaza in washington like he did than Adam has lost his mind. What did doing that acomplish for adam? NOTHING! he went to jail!!!!! Rand is not a idiot like adam and he knows the only way to do it is by doing it the way all US presidents do it. saying what people really want to hear and then change it up in the office!!!!!!!! for all you naysayers, what president ever went against the grain and won a election????

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Advice to my fellow Rand

Advice to my fellow Rand supporters. It's no use trying to convince. Because the opposing side has a point. You can't really know what Rand's thinking here. From an anti-Rand perspective, it's simply too risky to stake your vote on this. What we are essentially gambling on is that we claim to know what he's thinking, despite his actions having contradictory elements. Human judgement is prone to error and the zombies out there have thought their judgement was impeccable (we know better). So then to claim that we somehow are better than the zombies seems arrogant and hypocritical. That's why every argument coming out of our mouths sounds false. Because the arguments coming out of our mouths is similar to what a zombie would say.

Fact of the matter is that we are gambling. That is the gist of it. Not to say that we are wrong on taking this gamble. I think I see things that makes it worth taking. But every human has different risk appetites with varying time horizons. I don't really see a right and wrong with this. Even if Rand could attain the presidency at an earlier time with this strategy, a purist strategy might take a longer time horizon, but may be more stable once achieved.

That we try to convince each other has more to do with ego I think and a desire to manipulate each other to our own will, so that our own personal priorities are achieved. Frankly speaking, I'm not that concerned with being right on this, nor do I have a desire to manipulate someone to my viewpoint. This is something that can only be decided by letting it play out. No convincing will do the trick, because we simply do not have enough information (though some would say that they have enough in order to already make a judgement). To attain new information, only time solves that problem. Rand knew that his strategy would alienate the purists. Now we have to see if it was worth it.

The strategy is in play now. No need to argue. Only watch. And have a plan B. Because banking everything on government (which Rand is part of) is not the wisest decision IMO.

actually by going on and on

actually by going on and on about your view point is in a way of manipulation. If you talk about a subject even if neutral, you will always have some sort of cohesion about it and a sort of neutral manipulation like it or not. just like reverse psychology. for the most part i believe Ron raised his son and his son is on a mission to try to stop this horrible mess the USA is in ASAP.

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Haha, that's true and it's an

Haha, that's true and it's an issue I considered myself. In the end, I decided that if this really was my inner desire to manipulate, it's the least malignant one of them all that most respects other people's opinions. But an upvote to you for seeing the weakness of the argument!

true but just remember that

true but just remember that the weakest argument or opinion if any, sometimes has the most effect on people. humans are prone to feel sorry for others and that's why many always root for the one with the least advantage or goal or side with the ones who cause less disruption. hence rand paul. not saying he has weak arguments just saying he purposely makes it look as he has no extreme views and is somewhat moderate for the far left and right. silence speaks volumes, little interjections will speak pages and a all out loud mouth will never get past the introduction without people closing the book of liberty. rand in my opinion does witty interjections and stops to asses the situation from what i have seen of him. Ron sorry to say even tho I truly would take a bullet for the man comes across some times as a stubborn loud mouth old man in context and rocks the boat to no end leading people to believe he will sink the canoe of football and fast food etc. we will always love him but it makes it hard to get past the first page for others who are stuck in the matrix.

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Vote the record, not the rhetoric.

A president sets the "tone". In order to do so, one must be elected first.

See my sig.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Good One!

This is the same as "We have to pass the bill to see what's in it".

We have to elect him to see what he TRUELY beleives in.

I'll pass.....

Vote the Record,

Not the Rhetoric:

http://www.dailypaul.com/309926/rand-paul-on-the-record

Apples seldom fall far from trees.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

not true

Sons and daughters of great men almost never come anything near as wonderful as the previous....

The reason is because greatness is not hereditary. There is some value in being raised by greatness, but the chances of the son or daughter coming anything near as great is still very small.

As a side note, i find it interesting that you dont like Rand's "rhetoric". I think "rhetoric" is just as important as voting. Rhetoric is having the courage to speak the unpopular truth and is more important than voting against the Obama administration (like most republicans do anyways)

I'm done with Rand. Anyone

I'm done with Rand. Anyone who continues the stupid and cruel meme that the Palestinians are the problem, and Israel, the illegal occupier and Jewish only colonizer is our greatest "ally," is not for me.

Here come the Rand bots.

Son of Ron always gets a pass because after all he is just playing political football.

Just shows me again and again exactly how stupid people can be.

It don't matter what he does or says the fake libertarians want the son of Ron so desperately.

Wake up guys the elections are rigged and son of Ron is a lemming.

sovereign

Name calling...

I take great offense to your statement.

Are you honestly so simple as to think that nobody with an intellect could disagree with you? The FACT is that neither the Rand "bots" nor the Rand trolls know for sure. Everything else is speculation and opinions. You do understand that don't you?

You call people who disagree with you "bots" and "stupid." Then you go on to tell us to, "Wake up guys the elections are rigged and the son of Ron is a lemming."

Great argument... you'll sway a lot with that one. You know, at first, I didn't agree with you but after reading your carefully crafted persuasive argument of telling me how stupid I am...

If us "bots" are all wrong we're in no worse of a place than we would be with any other candidate. If we're right, Rand is our best chance to get a liberty candidate elected president and people like you have done more to destroy that possibility than any MSM organization out there.

...but what does a stupid bot know anyway?

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

...

I agree ~ It is time to wake up to the FACT that we have lost our last best hope. We now must resolve,in at least our own minds,that it is indeed 1775 The tea has been thrown over board and ( It is sad that I myself have such a unhealthy fear of my government that I can not complete this thought )

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Don't Give me Liberty, I'll get up and get it myself!

conalmc

I agree with you, but don't you know that any criticism of Rand Paul will not be tolerated here. It's okay though as long as we still have courageous men like Adam Kokesh and Ben Swann standing up.

You can't even up vote on this thread. LOL

Disagree

This is kind of shortsighted, naive and lacks all nuance. While I agree with the philosophy, it's not working and it's not practical.

I don't understand why we have to attack our own. Sorry Rand Paul isn't perfect but he is changing government and society for the better.

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

I was really dissappointed with Adam on this one

Adam wants to move too fast, well I can understand if he feels we don't have much time, but this really gave me a more slightly negative view on Adam Kokesh, almost made me feel like he sold out. I am gonna be watching Adam more closely now, he burned some of my trust with this rant.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

The first thing I thought when about this thread

is 'where is the patience?'. If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, you have to operate inside the box before you can successfully operate outside of the box.

Don't get me wrong, Rand is just a start and I believe he really could be a start, but Rome neither was built nor fell in a day. However, if Rand isn't the next President we are about to eat a mountain of sh it that we haven't even begun to realize yet.

If anyone thinks one guy, even Ron Paul, could fix everything in a term of POTUS then you are deluded a bit and have no patience for any real fix.

All of that said, I do think Rand doesn't need to placate as heavily as he does to the establishment to get her done.

Seems like people around here

Seems like people around here value truth far, far above life itself. I find this incredibly tragic. Truth without life is nothing. Life without truth is life. Some things are more important than life, but certainly telling truths 100% of the time even if it costs you everything isn't one of them.

Dear Adam

I can't get on board with you here.

Don't worry so much about Rand comes off and how he presents himself at the current time. Do YOU REALLY THINK that Rand's MAIN AUDIENCE is the puny libertarian movement at this time?

He HAS TO PLAY POLITICS! To get a slot on WWE Raw, you have TO PLAY PRETEND and act like the punches are real. That doesn't mean that the wrestlers actually mean what they say when in the ring, IT'S A SHOW; and we know it; but the masses think it's real.

So let him play politics and I THINK YOU WILL BE MORE THAN PLEASANTLY SURPRISED with the stuff Rand would do should he reach the office.

You know how politicians ALWAYS CHANGE THEIR TUNE AFTER they get elected? Like Obama (and all politicians) not living up to any of his campaign promises?

Well.... I believe THE OPPOSITE WILL HAPPEN with Rand. What he does when he reaches office WILL BE UNHEARD OF. The things he will do will not be on his campaign promise list, because he would not get elected by the sheeple if they were!

The problem with your

The problem with your argument is that people like Rand have the opportunity to change the thinking of Americans, by telling the truth about matters such as Palestine vs. Israel. When Rand lies about it, or distorts the issues, it just strengthens the old societal meme that has led to such bad foreign policy. This is not the time for craven leaders who are afraid to tell the truth.

He won't be ANY KIND of leader

If he doesn't first get elected. Ron Paul had NO CHANCE of getting elected and he knew it. He was just out to educate, and he did that well. Now for round 2.

This time, we don't just want "a Ron Paul clone" that will ALSO HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF GETTING ELECTED!

This time we want Rand to do what he has to do to get the seat in the office THEN... he can start being genuine.

Sorry, but you have to make some sacrifices along the way for the end that we desire.

RIGHT NOW is not the time to judge Rand's actions. AFTER THE ELECTION is the time to criticize!

Just help us get him in there!

Who else are you gonna pull for?

NO THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE STANDS A CHANCE! That is just the reality of it. We could "stick to our principles 100% of the time" and vote only on a libertarian candidate.... BUT THAT IS SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT with an absolutist philosophy, it handicaps us if we are not flexible in extreme circumstances.

The RARE CHANCE that we have a candidate that STANDS A CHANCE is an extreme circumstance.

I try and look at it like this

We know what kind of person Ron Paul is, and knowing that we have to consider multiple things, first: we know that Rand is his own person, but, we also have to consider to ourselves what kind of person did Ron Paul raise? He obviously raised him in his way of thinking. Also, Rand has been there for every election is father went through, and having to see how the establishment treated him, how they called him a racist, A Jew hater, and a crazy old man. Now put yourself in his shoes, would you blow all that stuff off and just run how you want to run and support similar positions that those same people that attacked your dad supported? Now, I don't pretend to know what Rand is thinking, and I hesitate to say that he is just playing along until he becomes president, but I would say that he does love liberty as much as his father does, and cause look how much of an impact Ron Paul has had on all us, and we aren't his flesh and blood.

Kokesh really sounds ridiculous here

How can someone as smart as Kokesh be that against Rand? Who else is fighting for liberty in the senate and has even an outside chance at becoming president. Yes, you can be naive and claim to be a pure anarchist and say that you're going to simple withdraw from the system, not participate, etc. However, if you open your eyes for more than a minute you'll realize that simply isn't possible anymore. Where can you go that the state will not follow? You could confine yourself to a cave in the middle of nowhere and there's still a good chance they'd try to monitor you somehow. Don't pay your taxes? End up in prison. Don't get the right permit? End up in prison. If you're going to attempt to have some semblance of a normal life you can't just ignore everything. That means it's going to take some people playing the game. Rand can't openly call himself a libertarian on Hannity because that's still considered a dirty word for the majority of republicans. If you walk, talk, and act like a libertarian, who really cares how you label yourself? I guess we'd be better off to just roll over and let Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton run the country for the next 8 years.

The idea's time has come.

Kokesh

knows the system yet he he thinks he can win an election. Ha! I respect Kokesh but some times he makes me wonder. He should clearly know Rand is playing the game. And he should clearly know a guy like him has no shot to ever be President.

SteveMT's picture

Kokesh: I support Rand Paul, but he is not a libertarian.(video)

Further details are warranted relative to the video above.
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Libertarians need to get over Rand Paul 4-21-14

http://youtu.be/2zNA1YSMrug

Rand Gives "Economics In One Lesson" To All His Interns

He is indeed a follower of Austrian economic thought. One vote for Iran sanctions does not negate as much.

Also, Rand made clear his position to eliminate all foreign aid. He couldn't get anywhere with it, so he's doing everything he can to reduce it (oh the horror).

The entire rant on the word "tangible" speaks more poorly of Adam than it does of Rand.

To call Rand an "arrogant central planner" is a stretch (don't you think?), as is the claim that he "doesn't understand freedom."

Adam recently had a debate with Stefan Molyneux on civil disobedience. In that debate, Adam said that minarchists are not libertarians.

On his show, Tom Woods recently asked Ron whether he is an anarcho-capitalist. Dr. Paul said he is more amenable to that position than he was 30 years ago but at present, no, he is still a minarchist. Adam may wish Ron Paul were an anarcho-capitalist, but unless he was lying to Tom Woods he is not one.

So Adam, are you prepared to acknowledge that by your standard Ron Paul is not a libertarian? And regardless, given that Ron is a minarchist, mustn't a good deal of what you just said of Rand apply to Ron as well?

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

You may have a point or two

You may have a point or two there, but assuming what Adam said came out of Rand's mouth, we can stop calling Rand a libertarian. Rand has called himself a conservative, and rejected the libertarian label. So if Rand got in the white house, we still can't say there is a libertarian president.

from an Anarchist's point of view

Rand is kind of a central planner. Government I'd say is a pretty centralized control mechanism. And if you participate in that, then you are complicit. So in that same way Ron is complicit as well. Before anyone starts getting all mad, just hear me out.

There is certainly some hypocrisy going on as many of the people bashing Rand were supporters of his dad. I am guilty. But You gotta understand that a lot of people Got into (L)ibertarianism through Ron Paul and then through further research and adherence to NAP, reached Anarchism. We supported Ron (and I still do, especially since he is out), but many DPers and Ron supporters have changed since 2008-2012. In fact, its because the experience with Ron and his campaigns that we've been able to more easily make the extra steps from Minarchism to Anarchism. Ironic as it, if I had known what I do now back in 2008, I probably would not have supported Ron. At least not in the sense of voting and sending money. I'd have respect for him and admire his good traits of course. Just as I do Rand. I don't support Rand and definitely don't like some of his decisions. But I still respect him and admire his many good traits. But I am done with the system and many others are as well. Especially the younger generations.