10 votes

I'm considering peacefully open carrying on my college campus in AL

I'm a student at Troy University in Alabama. I don't really care about my standing with the school that I attend, which bans firearms on campus (even though the state doesn't require them to). The Dean of Student Services knows what I have been planning and has told me that I will be arrested for trespassing if I do it. However, no police official has been able to provide me with a law that I will be breaking. Some people who advise me have said that if I open carry on University Avenue (that goes through our campus), I cannot be arrested because it is a public road. Unfortunately, we have not been able to determine if this is a public road maintained by city/state or if it is maintained by the university. This distinction makes all the difference.

If I am arrested, I would like to have people behind me who could defend me in court and sue for wrongful arrest. I don't really understand the whole process, but I am a model student with a 3.8 GPA. I also have a CC permit issued by the county in Alabama in which I reside.

Is there anyone here who could help me or might know someone who could help me? Any advice is appreciated.

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Time well spent would be to ...

Time will spent would be to prevent this women from winning an election:

Hillary Clinton warns US to 'rein in' gun culture

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27304586

I'd go concealed

unless you ride a horse to school

Government is supposed to protect our freedom, our property, our privacy, not invade it. Ron Paul 2007

I commend your courage, but

I recommend against it.

I can't answer whether or not they can get you in the public street, but they can still kick you out of school and ban your re-entry onto campus--in which case they wouldn't arrest you during your protest, they'd arrest you when you return for class the next day.

I'm assuming you have put a lot of time and a lot of money into your degree. Don't toss that away. At least wait until after you graduate. In the meantime, there are plenty of other protest opportunities available.

I just think this one is going to cost you more than it's worth.

Media

What may happen is that the publicity you're hoping to get and the exposure to the gun-rights topic can backfire.

The media would likely frame the headline as "Potential Gunman arrested outside College." I wouldn't be surprised if leftists used the occasion fix the "loophole" and call for new legislation banning guns for a ten mile radius around all schools and colleges.

Suggestion:

Ask a lot of friends to accompany you and have them keep their cameras/video on. Also, copies of the Constitution should be had.

The only way to keep your rights is to exorcise them. That is what Liberty and our Republic is all about.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Do what I do...

Silent Protest.
Empty holster.

Whenever I am in or at a place that restricts,
I wear a highly visible paddle holster, empty.

People will ask about the empty holster.
Then I have the opportunity to educate.

No harm, no foul.
Mission accomplished.

One can not spread the word of Liberty whilst locked in a cage.
Why endanger your mission? Stay free, be effective.

Defend your Liberty!


America Rising.
The Constitution Stands.

"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad

I love this idea!

I imagine the conversation ending with,"So a crazy person shows up and goes on a killing spree, I'm sorry, I won't be able to help you."

Be wise!

Do you remember hearing about the kid carrying a toy gun that was murdered by the police?

What about the countless stories of people being shot without a weapon?

I respect your position and agree with taking a stand, just make sure you have analyzed all the potential outcomes and are able to accept the consequences.

Being murdered by thugs is a potential outcome.

Are you okay with this result?

I Wouldn't won't you to become another headline on the Daily Paul.

"I'm Ron Paul." - Ron Paul

Please don't.

I assume you are a young, white male, and thusly fit the stereotype of crazy dudes with guns.

I would recommend defying rules and laws that cannot be construed as beneficial for the public safety. Set up Gadsden Donuts, or, Liberty Lemonade if you wish to incur the wrath of the Irrational State. If you could get SWAT called on a lemonade stand, you would make a splash. SWAT on a "gunman" is old hat.

Set up outside the College of Business with a cheap book exchange. Stick it to the man where it hurts.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Something about this

is pinging my "what is really going on with you?" radar. This seems to have "throw it all away but make it not for nothing" written on it. I'm concerned that you have weighed the little bit of political gain this plan could get as on par with keeping your life and your future while making political gains another way.

Could you take a sabbatical from school in order to go participate in a non-solitary political effort, go to the Bundy Ranch, perhaps?

Defend Liberty!

I'd suggest you get your degree

then do what you're going to do at an institution that did not issue your degree so the institution you attend is less likely to revoke it out of spite.

And, no, I don't mean to say I suggest to do whatever you're going to do. I only intend to suggest alterations to your plan if you can't be talked out of it that could mitigate the consequences for you, assuming you aren't gunned down on the spot.

Defend Liberty!

This Is So Crazy! Lol!!!! And: So Stupid.

This Is So Crazy! Lol!!!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! PURE MADNESS! Lol!

Alright, everyone.

Just to start off: I am NOT one of the "gun" crowd. Never have been.

I understand that people have a right to self-defense and all that but I personally simply don't like weapons. That's just me.

Now, aside from that: I am going to bed laughing!

It seems now people have gotten into PUSHING THE ENVELOPE.

Go to class packing a gun? Lol!!!!! Great way to scare everyone, or just earn the title of "Campus Freak" or make your Television Debut being hauled off to jail after surrendering to the S.W.A.T team.

I can only imagine what will come after: Stupid Press Conferences, those in favor, those against, lawyers and...

...A NEW MEDIA CIRCUS! Yay!

The Immates Have Taken Over The Asylum.

After that The TSA will have Full Body Scanners and X-Ray Machines for the poor music students carrying guitar cases to class.

"I want attention!!!"And: "If things go wrong you want people to try to save your ass?" Lol!!!

You've been watching TOO MUCH TELEVISION LATELY.

Thanks for the laughs.

Wisdom Strategies

This is a really bad idea.

Any number of things can go wrong and in the end you're not going to look brave or heroic, you're just going to make gun right activists look bad. I hope you decide not to do this.

Wear a big ass sign

make sure you are making it political. Make it say something defensive.

"Self defense is a human right"
"Gun rights are human rights"
"Guns save lives"
"Would you rather have a whistle or a gun?"

Also as someone else mentioned have information ready to hand out.
Two sets of information would be better. One for cops covering all state statutes and another for everyone else.

Be ready to be engaging, friendly, and educational. Make damn sure you've read and know the arguments, backwards and forwards. Going out there ignorant can hurt our cause. I and many other gun owners don't want you out there if you are going to act like an ass or can't hold an argument.

Rutherford institute:
https://www.rutherford.org/

Pro second amendment lawyers:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/...

NRA referral attorneys (be a member):
http://www.nraila.org/legal/issues/fact-sheets/attorney-refe...

Know before hand what you will be charged with don't guess. Also it's important not to mention to ANYONE that you know you are actively seeking to break the law or that you are in fact breaking a law, that will hurt you and the cause.

I would advise doing it just off campus if possible. Nothing hurts gun rights worse than people breaking the law intentionally, but civil disobedience isn't something i can readily dismiss.

Do what you will but think of the cause and i say you should do it where a lot of students pass, but not on campus.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Just imagine

You being put in the same situation as Adam Kokesh was. Nothing would hurt your ego more than making a plea deal like he did. No need to be the gov's guinea pig rotting in jail.

I would start an independent town/city newspaper or online news source instead, wherever you are located. We need to spread liberty at all local levels. This is a way better idea of standing for your rights! Thanks for the sentiment, but sounds like a bad idea if you ask me.

.

This is a really bad idea. Especially if you don't know exactly what you're getting yourself into.

Plenty of ways to engage in activism without sticking your neck directly on the chopping block.

Gun Free Schools Act of 1994

The GFSA states that each State receiving Federal funds under ESEA must have in effect, by October 20, 1995, a State law requiring local educational agencies to expel from school for a period of not less than one year a student who is determined to have brought a weapon to school. Each State's law also must allow the chief administering officer of the local educational agency (LEA) to modify the expulsion requirement on a case-by-case basis.

The legislation explicitly states that the GFSA must be construed to be consistent with the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). Therefore, by using the case-by-case exception, LEAs will be able to discipline students with disabilities in accordance with the requirements of Part B of the IDEA and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act (Section 504), and thereby maintain eligibility for Federal financial assistance. The Department has issued separate, more detailed guidance on discipline of students with disabilities, which includes clarification of the implementation of the GFSA consistent with IDEA and Section 504.

http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OSDFS/gfsaguidance.html

A third exception, is if the person possessing the firearm has a concealed carry permit issued by the State in which the school zone is located. This means that as the law is written, and as it has been interpreted by BATFE, if a person with a concealed carry permit is in any State other than the State that physically issued their permit, and they drive within 1000 feet of any K-12 school (which is impossible to avoid) with an unlocked gun, they are committing a federal crime. Violation of this law is punishable by up to five (5) years in federal prison and a conviction will bar a person from owning firearms for life

There was even a case in 2000 (United States v Tait) where an Alabama concealed carry permit holder was prosecuted under this federal law, for carrying a firearm in Alabama. The prosecution claimed that Mr. Tait's Alabama permit did not exempt him from the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act, even in Alabama.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/politics/7837-concealed-carry...

As I mentioned above, I am

As I mentioned above, I am licensed by AL for concealed carry, so I am an except. Similarly, anyone who has a CC permit has the right to carry on a college campus, and their right is protected by the Utah state legislature explicitly.

Question

What does the Utah state legislature have to do with concealed carry in Alabama?

JustLiberty4US's picture

I can appreciate your courage

I can appreciate your courage to stand up for what is right. However, it's not as if you are an attorney and can provide yourself free legal representation.

Try to change the culture on your campus. Find a sympathetic professor or staff member, and hold a panel discussion or debate this coming fall. Start planning early. Maybe start a club. Perhaps invite GOA to your university. The college campus is an opportunity to educate others.

Private/Public Property

Hmm, I'd say the university should be treated as a private property, and their rules should be followed, even if they're stupid. If you can carry on the public road, I say do.

When you have a scared animal in a cage, you get close to the cage and sit there for a while, then leave. The animal will eventually stop fearing that you are a predator. The students in the campus are in a cage. After a few days of peaceful public demonstration, people will start to see an open-carrier as harmless.

For myself, I don't enter places where I can't be assured of armed protection. My main preference is that I am armed myself, and so I carry all the time. I'm willing to enter government buildings that have at least a few armed guards inside, if I need to. I don't go into banks, post offices, or schools. I stay out of our local shopping mall. I just don't go into those places. That's it.

I have a gun to protect my liberty. Anyone trying to take my gun away from me is trying to take my liberty away from me. I am nobody's slave. Give me liberty or give me death? I say give me liberty, or else.

Strategically, the strongest position is holding your own.

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Assuming you are just going to be hanging out..

I'd make a sign or something that states that you are peacefully open carrying and to ask why, then have some sort of educational material to give them. That way you could educate and open a conversation to people who don't understand/may feel threatened..

Good luck!

This is a good idea

I think I like this idea. I have thought of mixing up the message just a little bit, so that people get curious.

For example, I was thinking of putting up a table in front of the post office. We'd have our rifles on our backs where everyone can see them. Our sign would say, "Petition to allow gay marriage" or "End the prohibition on chairs with three legs!" Add a sign that says, "Grab a free water bottle here!" The petitions would be for ballot access for independent and third-party candidates, so anyone who came to the table would have no reason not to sign.

I dunno, just make the average passer-by stare just a tad longer.

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Why give some dickhead barney

Why give some dickhead barney fife with one bullet in his gun a chance to kill you? Some campus cop trying to make a name for himself. I wouldn't do it.

Some advice

Don't get shot.