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"How Do You Even Know God Supports Ron Paul?" God supports...

On January 29th, 2008 Noelle says:
How do you even know if God supports Ron Paul to be president? Maybe he supports Alan Keyes. You honestly think we can affect who he supports through prayer? You think God is going to listen to OUR advice?

From: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/30876

We do not affect who God supports, but we can know who he wants us to choose for president.

God supports Ron Paul and here is the reason why:

Freedom, liberty, moral agency is God-given and in our case, in this country, secured by the contract/document we know as the Constitution. Therefore if God creates through man, a divinely inspired document, as Ron Paul referred to our Constitution, and that document secures the moral agency God gave to man, then it would follow that God would support those who best sustain such a document.

Ron Paul, in deed and word, best exemplifies the actions of one who up- holds those principles upon which the Constitution is founded. There is no other presidential candidate that has even mentioned the Constitution during the campaign. Moreover, there are few among the congress and senate that keep there oath to defend the Constitution. Neither do the supreme court judges, nor do all the judges in the courts of the land, for the most part.

Now you know wherein the true terrorism lies, and how far off course is this once-great nation. So…you can see that we have a big job ahead of us.

John Quincy Adams said, “Posterity—you will never know how much it cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.” We do know it cost the blood and treasure of many a good man of that time. We are about to find out what it will cost us. Are we willing to pay the price?

Daniel



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Many of you have missed the point(s).

See Ron Pauls' own statement of faith here: http://www.prayforpaul.com/

1. This post assumes a belief in God, the Christian God, the God
that inspires Ron Paul, even Jesus Christ.

2. This post assumes God gave "moral agency" to man.

3. This post assumes that God inspired man to create a document that
would help protect that agency, i.e., the Constitution, and spell out the
terms of contract. Ron believes, and so do I, that the document we
call the Constitution was divinely inspired.

4. It follows then, that God will support those who best up uphold and
protect that document which He inspired in the first place.

5. God supports Ron Paul for president because Ron truly honors his
oath to uphold and protect that divinely inspired document. No
other candidate has even mentioned the Constitution.

6. The "real terrorism" that we have to deal with is right here in our own
country. It is the very real threat that we are about to lose the last
remnants of our Constitution unless we take action and elect Ron Paul
to be president. Then we at least have a chance to make the
congress, senate, and the judiciary tow the line or walk the plank.

7. The cost of doing number 6 above will be great. Are we willing to pay
it?

Daniel

You misunderstood what I was trying to say

What else is ironic is the freedom to practice what you want includes murder and rape argument was the same one used againt Paul many times to counter his opposition to the war on drugs. It does not 'logically excuses and accomodates murder and rape,' that is a falliable argument.

And my point here is the same as Dr. Paul's, people should be responsible for their own actions. We ned to take some responsibilty as individuals. I see people talking about which candidate god would support, pray so Ron Paul will win - Well, it seems to me God gave you the power to make that decision. You are a creator, you have an influence in every action you do. We are the ones who have the power to make a change. We control reality. When we stop believing the MSMs lies, they stop being true and the illusion is suddenly gone.
Put some faith in yourself. When we begin to think everything is already predetermined by God, we begin to feel like there is nothing we can do. But reality is up to us. How can anybody here say one god is more right than another, it cannot be deabted. It is pretentious and huge mistake to ever assume you have the absolute right answer. Your reality is based on your perception. Stop depending on other people to tell you what's right and wrong. DO trust your feelings seomtimes. Always ask questions, Again, as Dr. Paul would say, 'I don't like to deal in absolutes,' sorry.

God doesn't vote in the ballot booth

And if He did otherwise then Slick Willard, Juan McCain, and Tax Hike Mike would have been smote down by now (ditto Hitlery).

BTW, Reagan proposed America as a shining city on a hill--NOT on a Hillary.

"Welcome to 2008: The Year of Ron Paul!"

God endorses the message.

God choses whom He pleases to lift up or put down, and I do believe that Dr. Paul is delivering a message that pleases God, no more killing innocent people, peace, getting along with other nations, God never endorses greed, killing, So yes, I believe God does endorse Dr. Paul and his message.

Gott mit uns?

This is a pointless topic. Every tyrant and despot since the time of the pharaohs has claimed divine endorsement.

Ron Paul's legitimacy comes from his adherence to the Constitution, a social (not religious) contract.

_____________________
Don't blame me! I voted for Ron Paul!

Beware anyone who claims to speak for God.

----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

Beware anyone who claims to speak for God.

----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

actually

actually, beware of anyone who speaks AS a god. Including those who offer up absolute moral perscriptions without any the backing of divine authority.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

Please remember...

We are united behind:

1) Wars of empire are bankrupting our country.. fast.
2) The Constitution and it's Bill of Rights and seperation of powers have long been under attack and close to death.

Other than that, us Ron Paul supporters come from a wide variety of backgrounds and philosophies.

I see christians trying to conform atheist speech and behavior and vice-versa. I see conservative, libertarians, and liberals trying to conform each other to what each side thinks the others should be saying and doing.

Let's understand that we all come from wildly different backgrounds and unite behind the principles that have brought us unlikely partners together and stop all the bickering. It only hurts the cause.

We can argue to our hearts content AFTER we get Dr. Paul in office and begin the arduous task of restoring Constitutional freedoms and liberty.

Have a nice day! =)

.

duplicate (grrrr)

I don´t believe in any god,

I don´t believe in any god, but I believe in goodness and Ron Paul`s message!!!!!!

Same here. But if I did

Same here.

But if I did believe in god, I would suspect that proclaiming ones self to be god's candidate, would be a surefire way to become lightning bolt fodder.

We are God...

No one can truly answer the question "Which God is God?" This philosophical question is as old as the dawn of time and it will never be answered to the satisfaction of all the inhabitants of earth. So don't waste your time debating the issue; no definition is right or wrong, only what "feels" right to the practioner. What you believe in your heart. New Age Metaphysics and Witchcraft teach that thought is form. Even Einstein theorized that "Thought is energy, to create it, use your imagination." He also theorized that "Energy is matter and can be used to affect change".

So whether the definition of a God or Goddess is accurate or real doesn't matter. What matters is the thought, and energy you put into your personal understanding and belief.

oy boy

The premise that "what feels right to the practioner" is right is, in itself, an objective claim contradicted by the statement itself. And I shouldn't have to point out that "whatever feels good to the individual is right" logically excuses and accomodates murder and rape.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

unfortunetly what feels

unfortunetly what feels right to the practioner will absolutly suck when that
person finds himself someplace he does not want to be when he dies! all because he was wrong and went with..." what feels good" there is truth when it comes God.. all you have to do is do your research! just like when people pooh pooh Ron Paul.. if they just would have taken an hour or so to read and learn about the man they would have voted for him and supported him beyond a shadow of a doubt..we don't vote for Ron Paul because it "feels" good.. we vote for him because he IS RIGHT! There is an absolute God.. and if you don't take the time to find the right one and thr true one its your soul who will not be happy!

well said...

...peace.

The wheel of the Gods turns slowly

But it grinds very fine.

When was the last time you heard a sermon on the highest law of the land at church?

Our Constitution is a political inheritance, a trust that has been broken.

I don't know about you, but......

I haven't hear a single meaningful sermon in my church in years. I feel that most just emphasis this "seeker friendly" approach and ignore law. This needs to change.

"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."

i thought...

God was a belief system, not a scientific fact....

i support ron paul and i'm an atheist.

if one can arrive at the golden rule and tolerance outside of a belief in god, what makes them any less worthy to vote for ron paul?

you want a big tent for ron paul supporters? then i'd suggest squelching the huckster religion-on-the-sleeve rhetoric, unless you know you're trying to sway a huckabee supporter. then, by all means, get swarmy and hold out the plate.

you thought wrong

"God was a belief system, not a scientific fact...."

Nope. God is a immaterial person who actually exists. Christianity would be an example of a belief system.

"i support ron paul and i'm an atheist."

Good. Your beliefs will do less damage to the world with Paul as president, since atheistic societies have always tilted towards big government collectivism.

"if one can arrive at the golden rule and tolerance outside of a belief in god, what makes them any less worthy to vote for ron paul?"

You can arrive there, but you can't rationally justify it. It's simply arbitrary on your part since, based on materialist presuppositions, there's no possibility of the existence of immutable, universal abstracts such as binding prescriptive behavorial rules.

"you want a big tent for ron paul supporters? then i'd suggest squelching the huckster religion-on-the-sleeve rhetoric, unless you know you're trying to sway a huckabee supporter. then, by all means, get swarmy and hold out the plate."

No one has done more than arrogant, uneducated atheists to narrow Dr. Paul's tent. Don't know if you read the papers (you obviously don't read much philosophy), but the religious outnumber atheists in this country by a fairly large number. I want Ron Paul to WIN. Pure and simple. So, do us all a favor and sit quietly in the corner until Ron Paul is president. Then you can blather all you want about how great your beliefs are, and how stupid religious people are and blah, blah, blah. Don't worry, bro. Just one more year, until he's president. I'm sure you can control yourself until then.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

who is alienating now?

if you're religious, fine. i don't see dr. paul wearing his on his sleeve. even better. arrogance? you displayed it beautifully.

i don't think you realize how many are supporting ron paul because of his inclusive message.

"God is a immaterial person who actually exists." I thought philosophy involved logic?

I did not blather, but expressed my concern that some (like you) cloud the good message of dr. paul by alienating others. We do have a separation of church and state in our constitution...freedom of regligion.

Please do not make judgements on my education or readings. Jesus was a great prophet and has many good teachings. Is that o.k. to say as an atheist? Would that be arrogant of me to agree with some of your beliefs? Tolerant?

And you lecture on collectivism when you admit there are more regligious people in the U.S. than atheists? That history has shown most wars are fought on religious grounds, either as a direct assault on eachother or by a proxy opiate.

You don't know me, my background, how I arrived where I am today. And if you did, you'd know that I am tolerant of religious people but only ask the same.

Sounds like the golden rule to me.

Sit in my corner? No thanks. I will continue to donate, canvas, call, write and participate in any way I can. In hopes that you will be able to remain free to call me names.

pdubya

Ron Paul does not wear his Christianity on his sleeve but he has said without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior!
being a Christian is for the christian to let others see Christ in us! when you see Ron Paul you are seeing Jesus working threw that wonderful man... THINK ABOUT IT! all the things you Love about him come from the 1 and only God of the universe.. your creator and mine!

i know ron paul

does not wear his religion on his sleeve (you've misread the intent and target). my beef isn't with ron paul's views, it is with fervent missionaries that may alienate non-believers interested in ron paul's constitutional platform. in other words, prop up the big tent instead of closing controversial doors.

we want him to win, right? some easy rules to follow:

- don't mention his stance on abortion unless the other party has questions or a position on it
- do mention common items such as the economy, civil liberty, constitution and privacy
- do not mention the war unless you are prepared to be diplomat and explain the letter of marque and reprisal, declaration of wars, and congressional accountability
- do mention special interest lobby, unless you're speaking to a defense contractor or healthcare mgmt ceo.

get the pattern?

In America, we have Jews, Christians, Muslims, Budhists, Agnostics, Humanists, Atheists, Pagans, Witches, Animalists, Hedonists, yada yada yada.

We also have Christians who believe in the Just War Theory, or some non-Christian assemblance of the same versus those that are "Christian Soldiers" who are nothing more than theocratic fascists.

(believe) it or not, i have much comfort not knowing what happens when my body dies.

point? be inclusive if we want paul to win.

peace

nope

"God is a immaterial person who actually exists." I thought philosophy involved logic?

This is a non-statement. Please attempt to demonstrate how immaterial behavorial perscriptions can exist on the basis of strictly materialist presuppositions. You must actually use logic, not just use the word "logic" as a simple buzz-word.

"I did not blather, but expressed my concern that some (like you) cloud the good message of dr. paul by alienating others. We do have a separation of church and state in our constitution...freedom of regligion."

Not sure you understand the constitution. People are free to speak their minds, which is all I think the original poster was doing. You seem to want freedom FROM religion, hence you get upet when someone even mentions their beliefs. There was no need for you to criticize the poster and his beliefs.

"And you lecture on collectivism when you admit there are more regligious people in the U.S. than atheists?"

Not sure you understand what collectivism means. Collectivism is the practice of group ownership by the people or the state. It has nothing to do with what the beliefs of the majority are, per say, although the beliefs of the majority may steer a government into statist collectivism based on its shared worldview- which is what has happened in all formally atheistic countries this century.

"That history has shown most wars are fought on religious grounds, either as a direct assault on eachother or by a proxy opiate."

Atheism has only really been around in any cultural significance in the last 100 years- and has so far racked up the biggest body count in human history during its brief time. So atheism may have been late joining the party, but it's off to great start! But really this is besides the point. Christians don't believe that some generic category of "religion" or "belief" is the answer, but that Jesus Christ is. All you've really demonstrated is that different people sin in differnt ways. Atheists in their way, "religious" people in theirs. This simply confirms the central tenet of Christianity that the human race is wholly screwed up, and that without the renewing Spirit and peace of Christ, there's not much hope- whether the aggressor is an atheist or ostensibly "religious" person.

"You don't know me, my background, how I arrived where I am today. And if you did, you'd know that I am tolerant of religious people but only ask the same.
Sounds like the golden rule to me."

The issue was never "should we use the golden rule?". The question was "given you atheistic presuppositions, why objectively should ANYONE use the golden rule." Or to put it on Ron Paul speak: You are borrowing spiritual capital from the Christian worldview to pay off the moral bankruptcy that a fully consistent atheism logically entails. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you're not fully consistent with what raw atheism, if strictly adhered to, would neccesarily accommodate. But, if you're going to blindly and confidently toss around words like "logic", then I think you should be able to offer an philosophically cogent premise that justifies your conclusions.

"Sit in my corner? No thanks. I will continue to donate, canvas, call, write and participate in any way I can. In hopes that you will be able to remain free to call me names."

This is plainly dishonest. I never said "don't work for Ron Paul". In fact, keep it up, and God bless you for working for freedom in this country! No, it was fairly clear that my point was "you can work for RP better without alienating religious people." Huckster's lame Christian identity politcs is a huge turnoff, but religion bashing will actually hurt RP worse.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

verbose

i do not bash religion. all i am asking is for it not to be bashed upon my head.

the rest?

at a time when i was pondering my belief systems, your words would have sped up my decision.

peace

weak

"at a time when i was pondering my belief systems, your words would have sped up my decision."

That's not a proper argument, that's a weak emotional response. Complete lack of logic or debate.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

Give it up

Pdubya, you have my sympathy. I know what it's like to run afoul of the christofascist mafia here on the Daily Paul. Like you, I prefer not to live my life based on Bronze Age superstition. Let them have their imaginary friend, and concentrate on things that are important.

_____________________
Don't blame me! I voted for Ron Paul!

indeed

Insults are the last refuge of the defeated. I'm still waiting for actual debtate. All you've given me is personal biography and personal preferences which is logically irrelevant.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt

thanks

...just wish more folks would take a few biology and anthropology classes (I took two religion courses and a philosophy course in college) ... i'm a biologist.

peace

sad

Um, your biology classes won't help you here. This is logic and philosophy 101. I was a biomedical engineering major. Irrelevant. Please answer the challenges I've posed. If you're going to attack someone's beliefs, then be prepared to back it up. If you can't, then admit it, instead of retreating into snobbery.

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt