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Doctors are not Scientists

I ran across this comment (http://www.dailypaul.com/316461#comment-3382901) and felt compelled to reiterate the point, that "most" doctors are not scientists.

I have several medical professionals within my close circle of family and friends. While a few, are in fact scientists, they will all attest to the fact that "evidence based practice" is hardly based on evidence.

The medical guidelines they must adhere to are very strict. They are not allowed to "practice" the administration of unapproved methods, modalities, or "drugs." They are only allowed to "practice" the game they have been taught.

Robert Smith, editor of BMJ.com, states "As medical students they were filled full with information on biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, and other sciences, but information does not a scientist make—otherwise, you could become a scientist by watching the Discovery channel.

A scientist is somebody who constantly questions, generates falsifiable hypotheses, and collects data from well designed experiments—the kind of people who brush their teeth on only one side of their mouth to see whether brushing your teeth has any benefit. Most doctors follow familiar patterns and rules, often improvising around those rules. In their methods of working they are more like jazz musicians than scientists."

"If doctors are not scientists then it seems odd to supply them, as medical journals do, with a steady stream of original scientific studies. Teachers and social workers are not sent original research. Nurses are sent some, but are they simply aping the illogical ways of doctors?

The inevitable consequence is that most readers of medical journals don't read the original articles. They may scan the abstract, but it's the rarest of beasts who reads an article from beginning to end, critically appraising it as he or she goes. Indeed, most doctors are incapable of critically appraising an article. They have never been trained to do so. Instead, they must accept the judgment of the editorial team and its peer reviewers—until one of the rare beasts writes in and points out that a study is scientifically nonsensical."


You are personally responsible for your healthcare. You shouldn't take the pills, have the surgeries, or get the treatments until you are fully aware and understand all potential outcomes and are willing to accept the results of those outcomes, no matter what they might be.

It is, afterall, just a practice.

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And they don't study health.

Here is someone who does

Garan's picture

I usually follow up with..

"..and a doctor may loose their license if they practiced what they actually believe. We don't have medical freedom in the United States. We are not free."

I think Robert Barefoot gives a good talk about this on his audio-cassette, "The Calcium Factor". (the links online have been removed by youtube, #$%#$!).

Basicly, George Washington was the swing vote for medical freedom (religious freedom passed, thank god, or whoever, we have a choice), and he voted 'no'.

George Washington later died at the hands of doctors who packed his mouth and rear with mercury (creating blisters) and bled him multiple times.

Doctors are simply members of the classification 'repeaters'

Like so many other trusted individuals with educations, Doctors are told what the 'facts' are, and they simply repeat those as 'facts'. They didn't study what is being paraded as fact, they don't witness what is paraded as fact, and they certainly didn't discover what is being paraded as fact. Sounds just like the average public education teacher to me. No offense to school teachers meant. Anyone who gets a book, studies it, and then repeats the contents as 'fact', simply based on the font on paper, is simply a repeater. We are all guilty at one time or another, but our doctors and teachers do the most harm, though not intentionally. The problem is that the books can change at a whim, and therefore so do the facts. You can re write history within a generation. Not a good thing. Ask Winston Smith.

"You shouldn't take the pills, have the surgeries, or get the

treatments until you are fully aware and understand all potential outcomes and are willing to accept the results of those outcomes, no matter what they might be." Yes but you also need to ensure that dosages are effective and all meds are considered.

On one medical ordeal I had, the first doctor was afraid to prescribe drug X, the second doctor underprescribed X, and the third doctor prescribed drug X at top dosage for a cure. I had done my research by understanding the half life of drug X and possible minor side effects. I read at least 20 research articles on this and was able to present the info to the third doc.

As a grad student in a ranked med school I was one of

a handful of students in the pharmacology phd program. We had many classes with the med students and we had separate exams. The med students had multiple guess and we had "design an experiment to prove x". We had to logically design the experiment and then take another separate exam. Our's was a "thinking program". The med program was a memorize and spit out tech program. From my view it was provocative and I think about it a lot and how this affects our society.


Wow...you rescued me from years of feeling like I was "the only

one" who still harbored this disdain from having been in class with these suck-ups.
The thing I am having the most difficulty with lately is watching and listening to this Ben Carson stuff; man...if this guy is not a phony then I don't know what is.....!

I just got off the phone with a customer who had not gone to the doc for like 20 years. He went cuz he got a Medicare card. So for a year the doc says he's fine and then in year two the doc says, hey, they just compressed the range for who needs cholesterol meds and who doesn't so even though you are in the normal range, we are going to put you on simvastatin. So my friend calls me up to ask what do I think of simvastatin. I said it may make your cholesterol go down while it makes other stuff go up. So 3 months later he calls me up to tell me all of a sudden in a regular check up his potassium is high; so I Google simvastatin and potassium and sure enough here comes a reference about how in the third month of being on simvastatin a high number of people develop high potassium. The he said something about the doc and how he's a doc and he told him so and I said wtf I would not have said anything at all but since he asked...blah blah...and I threw in there that hey...my actual degree is in bacteriology, but ok I did have four years of chemistry and four years of bacteriology and as much physiology and more pharmacology than any of these docs so I told him he can believe whoever he wants, of course, and it's his body.

Poor guy is now all stressed out and his wife left him and now he thinks he has to go to the doc and get his potassium fixed; geez....I told him he was way well before he started going to the doc.....what a mess. I told a young friend of mine NOT TO GO TO MED school 2 years ago; told her to be a naturopath and she would make more money and not have to be regulated.....what does she do? Now she's in med school and boy is she ticked; she is starting to get it.


You are not alone I promise you.

This subject comes up just about every time we get together with some of the buddies we met through her Pharm. D journey. We live in a small town but somehow, wink wink, there are about 5 Pharmacist from her class who work with her.

The other great story I get to hear all the time? The really pretty Pharm. D student who was just there "to meet a doctor". haha Anyway, it didn't work out so well for her. Can you imagine? Putting yourself through the rigors of pharmacy school just that you MIGHT meet some doctor? haha I can't stop laughing on that one.

They would always get mad at one of their buddies because him and I would go drinking and playing while they were studying. I made my living on the innerwebs and he had a photographic memory. It was amazing! He could flip through and read the material once and then ace anything. Wish I could do that, but then do I really want everything I see to stick with me? Probably not.

Hope things have worked out well for you. All you can do is offer your best advice, but you can't force people to take it. Funny how people are trained to trust repeaters with a title.

Talk about amazing brains; my college bf was a music theory

major; when he wanted to go out and I was studying he would read my chemistry book and explain it back to me. He never even had chemistry! He of course went to Yale. He wasn't too much for people skills and I was glad he left!


My wife

had the same exact experience as you. She has talked about it many times. And then to be berated and talked down to by the very people who got through school memorizing rather than actually thinking and experimenting. Good thing you gals are strong to begin with. Most of the A-hole doctors won't even call my wife anymore because she won't put up with their nonsense. How many times can you correct a doctor who wants to give a 12 pound baby enough medicine to treat a 200 pound adult? Obviously the memorization 'technique' sticks with them deep into their practice years. Most doctors have zero respect for the work and knowledge required for the Pharm.D, and that tells me a lot about the megalomaniac doctors who would rather be seen as 'all knowledgeable', rather than doing the right thing for patients by listening to others who happen to specialize in said prescribed medications.

Glad I got to hear your story. She really wants to study up and retire with the ability to take full advantage of the natural medicines around us. Nothing makes her more angry than seeing all these kids on huge doses of anti depressants and adhd medicines that haven't even been tested on children. I hear it every single day. :)

I sent you a reply, but somehow it wound up above my post.

I just really appreciate your rescuing me from 20 years of feeling alone in my disdain for the system. I never wanted to be a doc, fortunately; I needed a major so I got a degree in science. It has helped me enormously though in being able to understand and relate to food and health and all that.


Future headline:

Most Doctors are not Humans

"I'm Ron Paul." - Ron Paul

And that may be a good thing!

And that may be a good thing! If they can replace "Dr. House" with "Dr. Watson," maybe diagnostics and treatment will get cheaper (and friendlier).


Another future headline:

Most People Aren't Humans

"I'm Ron Paul." - Ron Paul

SteveMT's picture

There are far more doctors turned scientists than vice versa.

One big reason is time. A Ph.D. takes 4-5 years, add a 2-3 year postdoc, and then add 4 years of medical school and that's well over 10 years. A combined M.D.-Ph.D. program is 6 years. Of course M.D.s can do research without obtaining a Ph.D., but that is where the medical school indoctrination and Big Phama have the biggest advance. It takes years to develop critical thinking and designing an experiment to test a hypothesis without prejudice. Research with humans is also very difficult; there are just too many variables compared with lab animals and in vitro.

wow. I actually agree.

How about that.

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I personally found this out

Doctors in the modern era are - for the most part - no different than motorcycle mechanics or refrigerator repairmen:

Motorcycle mechanics attend Motorcycle Trade Schools where they are taught specific - by the numbers - trade school procedure and methods of repairing specific brands of motorcycles in pursuit of a certification.

Refrigerator repairmen attend Refrigerator Repair Schools to learn by the numbers pre-determined methods of repairing specific brands of refrigerators in pursuit of a certification.

They don't generally - and are not trained to - creatively search for new methods of repair or even ways of boosting the performance of your machine when you ask for it or need it - as this is outside of what they were trained to do AND may open them up to penalties from the state licensing authorities that oversee the trade.

Doctors attend Pharmaceutical Trade Schools where they learn by-the-numbers pre-determined methods of 'maintaining' specific parts of the human body by applying patented toxic chemicals and meat cutting techniques in pursuit of a certification.

Expecting them to be more than that might (and probably will) only lead to a worsening of your condition and possibly a much earlier death.

You took the words

right out of my....keyboard. Doctors are technicians, philosophically / functionally the same as an auto mechanic.

Funny thing is, most people

Funny thing is, most people will not keep going back to an auto mechanic who can't fix their car. Yet they will go continuously to doctors who can't fix them or even make them worse.


Well typed.

"I'm Ron Paul." - Ron Paul